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Skytec lightweight starter solenoid heatsoak

J

jacksel

Well Known Member
If you have experienced this, you know it can be frustrating being stuck somewhere with a heat soaked solenoid on your lightweight starter. There is no replacement for the inadequate solenoid. Only an upgrade to an NL (inline) starter with a much beefier solenoid will provide a permanent solution. It adds a pound or so of weight, but it's well worth it in reliability. The NL slides right into the RV-6, but with the RV-7 you'll notice a problem. The large (piper style) heat box on the crossover exhaust will not accommodate the NL. The tailpipes on the RV-7 have that extra bend, so are not feasible for the RV-6 style heat muff. However, with some patient work you can install the heat muff on the forward crossover tube and make it work. The carb heat is the same RV-6 short pipe.
Photos available, but I don't know how to include them in the thread.

Jacksel
Yulee,FL
 
This is the way it all fit together on my RV6, O-360-A1A. I thought the heat muff was the RV7 one, but maybe the pipes are different. I get plenty of heat for both carb heat and cabin heat.

IMG_2234.jpg

IMG_2233.jpg
 
I'm in the midst of this issue on my 7 with a I(O)360-M1B and horizontal injection. Was flawless for the first ~100 hours but since then on quick turn arounds nothing until it cooled off a bit. Changed the solenoid on warranty and that seemed to help for awhile but now it's back. Talked to Hartzell/Sky-Tec about this (very helpful and accommodating), they sent me a HT version (also as warranty replacement) but unfortunately this won't work with horizontal induction, just too big and interferes with the mixture linkage and air intake. Going to warranty replace the LS starter with another (when available).

Seems a simple heat sink could be added to the solenoid to resolve the issue.
 

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Starter

I have an RV-8 with an IO-360M1B & horizontal induction and was able to fit an NL starter without any modifications. Makes a HUGE difference starting as the lightweight starter was having difficulty sometimes. Maybe the higher 9.5.1 pistons didn’t help. With the NL starter I have no difficulty starting & plenty of power. Your setup may be different but I was able to easily fit the NL I got from Mike Stewart (Kahuna) and all is good.

On another note- my #1 cylinder is similar to the picture above with a straight section that the heat muff fits around. Dave Edward’s at custom welding (702) 306-3590) built me a custom heat muff to fit the orientation I needed for the scat tube connections. It has the rods inside to deliver more heat and even on the coldest days I don’t have to pull the heater cable very much to get ample heat.
 
SkyTec/Hartzell is aware

I have seen this problem and called SkyTec just a few months ago. They are aware of the problem, and sent a new solenoid. I haven't seen a problem since.

Vic
 
Been there...

....Sitting on the ramp in Junction TX, in +95°F -- no shade, no water...ugh...


Replaced the solenoid with the "Real" Borg Warner BWD S5613, no issues since.

Starter is a SkyTec 149-PM/LS-12 - was factory new, installed on the engine in 2015. Problem developed at the 40 hour mark.

The original solenoid had a corroded/pitted piston, so when it was energized it wouldn't draw all the way in so the starter motor never received any voltage.

If you need to buy one, the Automotive cross-reference is "2005 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6L V8" - starter solenoid.
 
I've also had my share of short-lived Ford PMGR solenoids over the years. I've also had the "Real" Borg Warner BWD S5613 and got a couple of years out of it before it started sticking. Pretty sure the current BWD is made in China.

The latest solenoid I've been using is the Brazilian one, from ZM (2-762). The one I have has the rubber cap over the actuator piston.

Capture.JPG
 
vic syracuse said:
I have seen this problem and called SkyTec just a few months ago. They are aware of the problem, and sent a new solenoid. I haven't seen a problem since.

Vic
Click to expand...

I had the issue this fall at about 125 hours with the original starter/solenoid and they replaced with the "new" improved solenoid which worked fine for awhile. Since then same problems developed at about 20 hours later. when hot does not engage.
 
motodave said:
I had the issue this fall at about 125 hours with the original starter/solenoid and they replaced with the "new" improved solenoid which worked fine for awhile. Since then same problems developed at about 20 hours later. when hot does not engage.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity -- how is your starter wired to the starter relay?

A big fat wire (2ga) from starter relay to the starter? -or-
A big fat wire from starter relay to starter *AND* a 14 - 16ga wire from the "I" terminal on the starter relay?
 
bjdecker said:
Just out of curiosity -- how is your starter wired to the starter relay?

A big fat wire (2ga) from starter relay to the starter? -or-
A big fat wire from starter relay to starter *AND* a 14 - 16ga wire from the "I" terminal on the starter relay?
Click to expand...

Yup, standard setup I think, 2ga from battery to master contactor, bus bar to firewall starter contactor and 2ga to the starter solenoid per plans. Flew yesterday and stopped for gas no problem but is was also only 20 degrees in air and maybe 30 on the ground!
 
motodave said:
Yup, standard setup I think, 2ga from battery to master contactor, bus bar to firewall starter contactor and 2ga to the starter solenoid per plans. Flew yesterday and stopped for gas no problem but is was also only 20 degrees in air and maybe 30 on the ground!
Click to expand...

Ref: OP-10, OP-11, OP-12

Per "plans" changed over the years for the "lightweight" PM/LS starter variant, circa 3/2002.

Originally, there was a jumper on the starter solenoid (at the starter) which is used to energize the solenoid when the 2GA wire was energized.

At some point it was discovered that the "lightweight" PM/LS would self energize, causing a hung start/delayed disengagement of the starter -- this necessitated removing the small jumper and running a dedicated wire from the starter solenoid back to the starter relay "I" terminal.

I've seen the hot start/weak start condition now on two different airplanes; aircraft builder left the jumper in place and didn't have a connection between the solenoid and relay "I" terminal. Adding the dedicated wire resolved the "heat soak" start issue...
 
bjdecker said:
Ref: OP-10, OP-11, OP-12

Per "plans" changed over the years for the "lightweight" PM/LS starter variant, circa 3/2002.

Originally, there was a jumper on the starter solenoid (at the starter) which is used to energize the solenoid when the 2GA wire was energized.

At some point it was discovered that the "lightweight" PM/LS would self energize, causing a hung start/delayed disengagement of the starter -- this necessitated removing the small jumper and running a dedicated wire from the starter solenoid back to the starter relay "I" terminal.

I've seen the hot start/weak start condition now on two different airplanes; aircraft builder left the jumper in place and didn't have a connection between the solenoid and relay "I" terminal. Adding the dedicated wire resolved the "heat soak" start issue...
Click to expand...

Very interesting, my starter has the jumper and the only wire from AC electrical system is the 2ga from the starter contractor. I need to investigate this, thanks.
 
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