What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

REV - Vans chapter 11. - A word from the venders

T

thelynns

Active Member
A brief history of LANGAIRE AIRCRAFT PARTS LLC’s (PRIOR LANGAIR MACHINING Inc.) association with VAN’S AIRCRAFT.
By Harmon Lange
First of all, dear friends, let’s us remember that take offs are optional. LANDINGS ARE MANDATORY.
In 1959 your UNITED STATES AIR FORCE took the farm boy that wanted to fly and turned him into a machinist. Hence the die was cast.

In 1969 I began making Wittman type rod gear. The first set was for my Davis DA-2a that I was building. Then it was for friends and other individuals with experimental aircraft. The Wittman tailwind was one of those experimental aircraft. Steve Wittman had designed the gear legs I was making. So, in 1972 (about) I visited Steve Wittman at his home in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and obtained permission to use his name to advertise the gear legs. A small ad was inserted in the national EAA magazine. We have to assume (never got the story) that Van’s used that ad to contact Langair Machining and order the first production run of gear legs for the RV-3. (Van had chosen the Wittman type gear legs for the RV’s) As production increased I was contacted to assure that Langaire Machining would be able to handle the increases that where anticipated. (I’m sure no one at that time could have predicted how much that would be.) In any case Langair Machining purchased the necessary equipment to handle large increases in demand. Most of this equipment was made just for the gear leg production.
In the early years Langair Machining was located in Wisconsin and we made the gear legs finished to size, but not bent or heat treated. They were shipped from Wisconsin straight, they still needed to be bent and heat treated. Van had that process done in Tacoma, WA. The gear legs where then custom fitted to each engine mount. This custom fitting process was very time consuming. The problem was the heat treating warped the parts and caused a misalignment. I was not aware of that problem at the time but Van was trying to come up with a better way. The solution was to leave extra material on the 2 areas that provided the tight fit to the engine mount. This material would be ground off after bending and heat treating, and provide the close tolerance fit and alignment without the custom fitting. Great - problem solved. The only thing is no one ever made a grinder that could grind a part that was already bent.
After considering all the options I came up with a way to modify the grinder we had so we could basically do the impossible. The problem was it could not be done in Wisconsin with shipping parts back and forth. At the time Bill Benidict was President of Van’s and it was not a problem for him to literally beg for a strategic move.
So, in the spring of 1995 I packed up all the equipment (many items specially built for the production of landing gear) and moved to Oregon. The thought at the time was Van’s Aircraft would most likely relocate to the Scappoose Airport so that is why we are located near there.
Production kept increasing and at one point (about 2006) a meeting was called and the question came up about growing old and not being able to provide the gear legs. Tom Green was president at the time. Tom and I decided that a younger man should be trained to handle the production part of making the gear legs. Hence the partnership with Richard Squires was arranged. Richard has since made many improvements in gear leg production. Demand for the gear legs has rapidly increased over the years and Langaire Aircraft has kept up. We are however deeply dependent on Van’s Aircraft’s success with the reorganization.
The procedure that we have developed here at Langaire to manufacture gear legs has improved greatly over the past 30 plus years. This has allowed us to keep the price of the product at a minimum. However, our operation depends significantly on continuing to produce these gear legs. Since landings are mandatory, I guess we are also.
 
Last edited:
thelynns said:
A brief history of LANGAIRE AIRCRAFT PARTS LLC’s (PRIOR LANGAIR MACHINING Inc.) association with VAN’S AIRCRAFT.
By Harmon Lange
First of all, dear friends, let’s us remember that take offs are optional. LANDINGS ARE MANDATORY.
In 1959 your UNITED STATES AIR FORCE took the farm boy that wanted to fly and turned him into a machinist. Hence the die was cast.

In 1969 I began making Wittman type rod gear. The first set was for my Davis DA-2a that I was building. Then it was for friends and other individuals with experimental aircraft. The Wittman tailwind was one of those experimental aircraft. Steve Wittman had designed the gear legs I was making. So, in 1972 (about) I visited Steve Wittman at his home in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and obtained permission to use his name to advertise the gear legs. A small ad was inserted in the national EAA magazine. We have to assume (never got the story) that Van’s used that ad to contact Langair Machining and order the first production run of gear legs for the RV-3. (Van had chosen the Wittman type gear legs for the RV’s) As production increased I was contacted to assure that Langaire Machining would be able to handle the increases that where anticipated. (I’m sure no one at that time could have predicted how much that would be.) In any case Langair Machining purchased the necessary equipment to handle large increases in demand. Most of this equipment was made just for the gear leg production.
In the early years Langair Machining was located in Wisconsin and we made the gear legs finished to size, but not bent or heat treated. They were shipped from Wisconsin straight, they still needed to be bent and heat treated. Van had that process done in Tacoma, WA. The gear legs where then custom fitted to each engine mount. This custom fitting process was very time consuming. The problem was the heat treating warped the parts and caused a misalignment. I was not aware of that problem at the time but Van was trying to come up with a better way. The solution was to leave extra material on the 2 areas that provided the tight fit to the engine mount. This material would be ground off after bending and heat treating, and provide the close tolerance fit and alignment without the custom fitting. Great - problem solved. The only thing is no one ever made a grinder that could grind a part that was already bent.
After considering all the options I came up with a way to modify the grinder we had so we could basically do the impossible. The problem was it could not be done in Wisconsin with shipping parts back and forth. At the time Bill Benidict was President of Van’s and it was not a problem for him to literally beg for a strategic move.
So, in the spring of 1995 I packed up all the equipment (many items specially built for the production of landing gear) and moved to Oregon. The thought at the time was Van’s Aircraft would most likely relocate to the Scappoose Airport so that is why we are located near there.
Production kept increasing and at one point (about 2006) a meeting was called and the question came up about growing old and not being able to provide the gear legs. Tom Green was president at the time. Tom and I decided that a younger man should be trained to handle the production part of making the gear legs. Hence the partnership with Richard Squires was arranged. Richard has since made many improvements in gear leg production. Demand for the gear legs has rapidly increased over the years and Langaire Aircraft has kept up. We are however deeply dependent on Van’s Aircraft’s success with the reorganization.
The procedure that we have developed here at Langaire to manufacture gear legs has improved greatly over the past 30 plus years. This has allowed us to keep the price of the product at a minimum. However, our operation depends significantly on continuing to produce these gear legs. Since landings are mandatory, I guess we are also.
Click to expand...

I feel like Dave Chappelle as Tyrone asking if you got any more of them nose gear legs.
 
Interesting Story Harmon.

This is a very interesting story. I would love to hear more like this from other vendors.
 
Rainbolt Enterprises, Now McCutcheon Metal Fabrication.

Rainbolt Enterprises, now McCutcheon Metal Fabrication.

Lee and Jan McDaniel started Rainbolt Enterprises in 1983 specifically to build welded parts for Van’s Aircraft. Rainbolt is Jan’s maiden name. Lee built an RV-4 in 18 months that he flew for the first time on Mother’s Day 1983, it was the third RV-4 to fly behind Van’s prototype and Allen Toll’s RV-4 from Bakersfield CA. Van was having trouble sourcing weldments so Lee built all his own weldments, when Van saw what Lee had built he asked Lee if he would supply welded parts to Van’s Aircraft, Lee agreed. Lee & Jan lived in Corvallis OR At the time.

Van flew a full sequence of aerobatics in Lee’s RV-4 for the FAA, this got Lee’s airplane an “Unlimited” in the aerobatics section of its Airworthiness Certificate. I always thought that was kind of interesting and probably very rare.

In the late 80s Lee and Jan moved on to the LaCenter View Airport in southwest WA and live there still.

Lee And Jan where part of a group of friends here in the Pacific NW that included my Dad and many of my Dad’s friends from North Bend / Coos Bay OR, Lee’s RV-4 was the firs RV I saw, it was summer 1983 and I was 15 years old, I was totally about nothing but airplanes and bicycles since I could walk, Lee’s RV-4 was the most awesome thing I had ever seen (probably still is)

In Highschool I was very into welding in metal shop and then metal clusters (two periods each day of metal shop). In 1987 I wone the OR state VICA skills contest in general welding and went on to third place in the national VICA skills contest held in Wichita KS in 1987.

In 1990 one of those Friends of my Dad’s who built airplanes in North Bend OR asked me if I’d like him to teach me to fly in his Cessna 150, it wouldn’t cost me anything but the fuel, frankly he bought most of the fuel too. His name was Boyd Williamson, he was 17 years old on the dock at Perl Harbor! Any way he taught me to fly in his Cessna 150 and soon had me flying his RV-4.

In the summer of 1991 I lost my job at Tower Ford in Coos Bay OR and Boyd asked me what I wanted to do now, I said I’d like to go to work welding for Lee but knew he already had help and probably didn’t need me, Boyd said his help left six months ago and Lee’s been working by himself 7 days a week ever since. I said let’s call him. I drove up to LaCenter WA and stayed with Lee and Jan for a week building a run of WD-405 elevator horns. I then went home and got my Dad’s camp trailer behind his truck and brought it up to WA, I lived in that trailer for a year tell I had the money for a down payment on a little old house in Ridgefield WA. In 2001 I bought Lee’s business and in 2005 I bought Lee’s RV-4, as soon as I stand up from this key bord I’m headed to the airport to fly it!

Van is a good Man who has been true to his word, he told me when I bought this business that he doesn’t have contracts with his vendors but as long as I and Van’s were on good terms, the parts that I build for Van’s would be mine to build, I’m still building them and a few more too. Lee and Jan, Van and Van’s aircraft have given me purpose, a way for a kid with little more than a high school education and a little skill to contribute and to make a living. I’m 55 now and have been at this for 32 years, every time I have some time off (I’ve had some recently) I quickly get the itch to get back in the shop and build parts.

I stand in support of Van and Van’s Aircraft and pray for their continued success, their success means a lot to a lot of people, if you rely give some thought to just how Van’s has affected the world, from its employees, vendors and customers along with all those peoples families you’ll get the idea of just how many people’s lives have been touched, elevated, supported by Van’s little airplane company Van’s Aircraft.
 
Amazing how Van's creation has inspired so many friendships, companies, livelihoods, skillsets, adventures, and more.

It makes me proud to fly one of these airplanes (even if I didn't build it).

Truly an American story.

--Ron
 
thelynns said:
This is a very interesting story. I would love to hear more like this from other vendors.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think these are the important stories to share at the moment.

Nobody likes the price increases, but they’re a fact moving forward. The constant venting just escalates emotion. There’s not much we can do until the court makes their decisions and publishes them.

These vendors livelihood depends on Van’s succeeding. They did make the decisions that got us to this point, but their lives are greatly impacted by the decisions of the court and how we as a community proceed. I think the continued success is also important to our community to sustain the availability of the parts they manufacture for future repairs that may be required.

Let’s hear from other suppliers so we can understand more of the impact to our community. I personally find it interesting to learn more about the parts in the aircraft we fly or about to fly.
 
Very interesting to hear how one small to midsized company creates/effects so many other small companies. Plus good to know the plane I built in my garage has parts made by suppliers that started in their garage.

This is the typical story in thousands of small companies across the US. All we hear about in the media are about the mega companies. This country is built on the small companies that you see along the highway and wonder what the heck they do. They make products for other small businesses and we would be surprised to know just how important they are to our economy.

I hope we hear some other stories.
 
As a guy who is flying on a seat of Davis DA2A gear legs made by Harmon waaaay back in the 70's I'm very glad to see this "small" aviation business continuing to prosper. Two of the three aircraft in my fleet have their landings cushioned by Langair gear legs. They just work, plain and simple. If you've ever met somebody who had the misfortune of bending a gear leg you'll undoubtedly hear a story of how quickly this company worked to get a bent gear leg straightened and back in the air. Good company, great people!
 
Great story Russ. I only knew part of it.
I’ve been to Russ’s shop and had him weld a few things for me over the years, like a modified mounting plate for mixture cable. He is modest when he says he has a “little” bit of skill. I can stick stuff together. Russ is an artist.
Russ, Langair, and other vendors should give confidence that RV’s will have support regardless of the outcome of Vans as we know it today. We are all pulling for Vans, no mistake about it, but Vans is more than just the sum of its parts.
 
Gear

Steve Wittman designed and patented the flat spring gear around 1935. The round gear around 1950. Sold the rights to Cessna around 1945 and received royalties until the patent expired.
I finished my first Wittman Tailwind in 1964. I machined two sets of gear legs in that era. My current Tailwind has a gear from Harmon.
Wittman Tailwind prototype will be 71 years old next month. First homebuilt of the EAB era to be approved to carry a passenger.
The Tailwind flew two months before the first EAA Meeting.
 
jrs14855 said:
Steve Wittman designed and patented the flat spring gear around 1935. The round gear around 1950. Sold the rights to Cessna around 1945 and received royalties until the patent expired.
I finished my first Wittman Tailwind in 1964. I machined two sets of gear legs in that era. My current Tailwind has a gear from Harmon.
Wittman Tailwind prototype will be 71 years old next month. First homebuilt of the EAB era to be approved to carry a passenger.
The Tailwind flew two months before the first EAA Meeting.
Click to expand...

My first experience in EAB (didn't build it)- was an all metal wing W8 Tailwind- Talked to Harmon in 1997 about a longer gear leg Tailwind the RV4 was optioned to- He talked me out of it :rolleyes: - A good history for a relatively small community.
 
It would be fun to hear from Flightline Interiors, Classic Aero Design, Whirl Wind propeller, Stein, Showplanes, Flyboys, Vetterman, and some of the other small vendors.

There is a mix here between small companies that support Vans in production, and those that supply aftermarket items. Both are important to us.
 
Here's a fun story about Langaire Aircraft Parts:

When Susan - my capable, charming, and lovely wife - and I first moved to Oregon we bought a house nearby to the Scappoose airport. Little did I know that we would be living just down the street from Harmon Lange's shop. Not surprisingly, this led to frequent visits and I quickly discovered that there are oh so many more nuances to producing gear legs than you'd imagine. Another discovery: After every visit to Langair, I emerged smarter than when I entered. It is an amazing place.

Langair is the only shop on the planet where the experience, knowledge, and machinery necessary to manufacture rod-type landing gear can be found. The cool thing is that Harmon's protégé, Richard Squires, is broadening their manufacturing capabilities while preserving the "git 'er done" philosophy that Harmon is famous for.

Langaire Aircraft Parts is a key part of making RV's the fun and affordable airplanes that they are.
 
Vendors

I got a text from Clint asking me to tell my story so the short version is: In 1984 I was building my -4 and I ordered an exhaust from the only supplier. It hit the sump and I was told to grind part of the sump away and take a hammer and dent the pipe in. My reply was “ this isn’t a Mack truck it’s an airplane and I’ll just send your system back and build my own “. So I ordered some bends etc from ACS and built my own. My goal was to get the exhaust from the engine out the bottom of the cowl. I did that by 4 individual pipes not knowing anything about tuning or anything exhaust related. As time went on I was asked to build more sets of this system commonly called my 4 pipe system.
The -3 and -4 were the only models at the time but there were a number of those with my system flying and no breakage problems which was common with the other system out there. These first systems were mild steel as stainless steel had the propensity to break or so that was the rumor at the time.
I now had moved to the Denver area with my regular job and met a whole new group of folks, many building rv’s. Enter Rick Robbins in the exhaust world. Rick was a fantastic welder and he and I designed the first heat muffs and he welded many systems. Many of you recognize his company as Robbins Wings. Rick is still a good friend and still building heat muffs.
The -6 was the next RV and we designed a crossover system for it. Vans had come up with a trainer for a foreign Airforce and called me and asked if I could build 60 systems asap, which I did. It was about that time my systems were listed in their catalog. That’s when things got really busy and new models were coming out. I designed systems for every model up to and including the RV-10. With all the different engine models for all the RV models I designed 38 different exhaust systems mostly for the RV’s but expanded and built for other homebuilt airplanes too.
My main claim regarding the whole exhaust thing was actual flight testing. I used the standard crossover system and modified,tweaked and played with how the pipes were angled into the system. This was many hours in the air as well as shop time to accomplish the so called “tuning”. It was a learn as you go process but the end product spoke for itself.
I got so busy and was getting farther behind, I needed help and Clint came to work for me. He was really good from the start and after about a year he could fabricate and weld equal to or better than me. He worked for me 9 years and then I decided to retire and he took the business over and has designed a bunch of new systems. He has his family involved and they help with almost every aspect of it.
I guess I was at the right place at the right time to do what I did and the best part of it was meeting and becoming friends with so many great people out there. Yep it was quite a ride, and I feel blessed to be a part of it.
 
Vendors

You’re exactly right about lifelong friends in this little airplane world. I’m hoping Clint will chime in with the things going on in his world.
 
Well Steve, I guess since you asked for it :)

Here's kind of a history of Classic Aero Designs in a nut shell:

Compared to the earlier companies in the RV world, we're kind of a new comer. We started our business in January of 2003. I'd just been laid off from my job doing software development. I had a little savings, and I wanted to do something aviation related, with homebuilts in particular. Having gotten my private back in '92 I had been away from flying for a while. A new family and work had kind of pushed it to the back burner. I eventually landed on the idea of making interior accessories for homebuilts as a possibility. I was always at my best making things with my hands.

When we started out, it was pretty basic. We had a few industrial sewing machines and cutting tables. As time went by customers requested items that went beyond normal upholstery though, so we ventured into other areas of manufacturing. After a few years I started designing things using 3D modeling software. This allowed us to start using various precision manufacturing processes like CNC foam cutting, laser and water jet sheet metal cutting, forming with a CNC press brake, thermoforming plastic parts, CNC router cutting, and later even some 3D printing. We just recently added 3D scanning to the mix to use in designing new products. To me, the design and manufacturing are the part I like the best.

One of our biggest assets has been our employees. Many of you know Jeremiah. He's the person you'll probably talk to if you call. He's been with us since day one 20+ years ago. He does a lot of hands on work, but also keeps the orders flowing, and wears a lot of other hats. A couple of years ago we had our first employee retire from the company after 16 years with us. We hired 2 new employees to take over where she left off. Before they came on our newest employee had been with us 10 years. With two newer people though, he's no longer the "new guy". We currently consist of 4 full time employees besides my wife and I. They're a great team, and I'm really proud of them.

We've had our ups and downs since the beginning. We were fairly unprepared for the 2008-2009 downturn, but we learned some valuable lessons from it. Like everyone, I feel badly for those caught up in the current issues at Vans. It's likely to have a negative effect on our business as well. It's still a little too early to know what that impact will be for sure. Most likely it will mean some more stress, and even longer hours than normal, but that's nothing new to anyone who's run a small business. It's a tough situation for everyone involved.

It's hard to believe the time that's passed since we started. Over the years, we've met so many great people. I think we sometimes forget how lucky we are when it comes to our customers. Van created an impressive line of airplanes, and the company to manufacture them. That's an amazing accomplishment. he also ended up bringing together a whole bunch of like minded people. It turns out they're really nice. We appreciate all of you. Thanks for your support!
 
scsmith said:
It would be fun to hear from Flightline Interiors, Classic Aero Design, Whirl Wind propeller, Stein, Showplanes, Flyboys, Vetterman, and some of the other small vendors.
Click to expand...

Well, it's getting late on Saturday night and since I'm too old to go out and party, I'm surfing the VAF forum while the wife and dog are already asleep. Nonetheless, I'd love to chat for a minute about the madness, and luck, of getting into an aviation business.

Regarding how Flyboy Accessories came to be: I met Jim Winings way back in the late '80's when he gave me my first RV ride in his RV-4. I was building a 4 at the time so we remained in touch. Jim and I both subsequently built Rockets, a plane that he and I both absolutely adored. One day in 2006 we were both having brunch at Greencastle, IN and Jim began describing a new, improved tailwheel that he had made for his Rocket. In typical fashion for Jim, he had a great idea and he wanted to share it with others. Well, it was a great idea as his tailwheel had better obstacle clearance and easier steering compared to the stock RV offering.

So, we're standing in the restaurant after eating and he walks over to me and says something like "I understand you have access to the machine shop at U.S.I. (the college where I worked). Well, I'm getting too danged old to make a bunch of these, so you do it." And he puts the tailwheel assembly in my hand.

While I had been at U.S.I. for several years as their instrument tech, I had only recently been given any machine shop responsibilities and barely knew a mill from a lathe. Hooo ha... let the fun begin!

I was being mentored by a real machinist, a towering genius, and curmudgeon, named Keith Benedict, who wore size 16 shoes. He showed me the basics of machining, and I made a few prototype tailwheels for a few of the Rocket guys. The stuff I made back then was borderline awful. Only through the kindness of Keith and the Rocket owners did the product improve enough to be even a remotely decent product. But it kept getting better, and soon enough it was selling a few here and a few there.

Since I already had a paying day job, I was able to launch a webstore (using the U.S.I. servers.. for which I could have been fired) and add a few other related products.

And here's the problem I ran into: I barely knew enough to make the products, but I very quickly found out that I knew even less, far less, about accounting, domestic shipping, foreign shipping, currency exchange rates, HTML coding (because back then you had to create and manage your own website), financing, customer service, packaging, ordering, tax laws, sales tax laws, estimated tax payments, workers comp laws, insurance, and on and on. HOLY COW!!!

Let me sum up what I learned, pay attention kids, Lesson #1:If you think that you're going to start a business because you love doing XYZ, you MUST understand that you'll only be doing XYZ about 10% of your time. Which usually means that you'll be giving up 20% of your sleep and probably 90% of your weekends!

I'm not complaining because I truly love learning new stuff, but it can be overwhelming at times! Boy was I dumb!!! Or maybe just "ignorant".

So, I kept adding new products, stuff that would fit our niche, or sometimes just stuff that I liked. I also found out that just because I liked a product does NOT mean that anyone else will. I still have boxes of things that just didn't sell.

Lesson #2: Make sure that you sell things that your customers want!

Around 2011 our son, Blake, graduated from college. He wasn't wild about going to grad school and was unsure of what to do next. Well, because I already had a day job at the college, and I knew that he'd get a heckuva education, I asked him "Do you want to take over Flyboy Accessories? You can run it however you like. I'll support whatever you want to do." He said yes.

Lesson #3: The only thing scarier than watching your child's birth, is asking them to do what you do.

If it works out, they'll love you. If it doesn't, they'll hate you. You'd have to ask Blake which emotion is dominant at any given time as having any type of business is a roller coaster ride.

At first, Blake wasn't too sure about keeping the business for the long haul, but then one day he kind of had an epiphany. He was now the boss and he could work any hour of the day, or any day of the week, that he wanted. He still had to work but that new freedom changed his attitude.

Blake kept growing the business, and I did what I could, and after a few years he was able to hire Chris Seger, his right hand man. Blake's wife, Becky, also began helping with the business.

A few more years passed. Then in late 2022 Blake and the good folks at Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (aka CAT) began talking about the possibility of Flyboy Accessories buying CAT. This came to pass in June of 2023. Blake then had even more people depending on him and his leadership. Soon afterward, as we all know, Van's difficulties popped up. Talk about unlucky timing.

The good news is that there are no finer people anywhere than airplane builders. We are all, every one of us, doing this because we love aviation. Typically, no matter where you are, help is only a phone call, text, or email away. And we all know that some days we're the helpful one, and when we need help, any favor we've ever done will come right back to us, multiplied by 10. It's incredible. And that is what makes aviation the best hobby and/or the best job anyone could ever have.

I am hopeful, and confident, that Van's will soon put their problems behind them and we'll all get back to enjoying this hobby that we all love so much.
 
As many of you know, my family has continued to operate Vetterman Exhaust after Larry retired around 10 years ago. I can honestly say it’s been quite the ride and I feel incredibly blessed to have been part of it.

I grew up on a cattle ranch in Wyoming, just about as far from aviation as I could have been. My flying story started in NW South Dakota, loading spray planes, and I got my start in a 90 supercub.
That job was fun while it lasted, but a family situation with my employer made me exit under bad circumstances. I spent a summer pouring concrete, which of course wasn’t very fun.
A phone call from my flight instructor about a potential job for a guy who built exhausts for the RV’s, and a trip to visit and check it out was made, and the rest is history.

The next 10 years or so, larry, Rick Robbins, and myself built exhausts, man did we build exhausts. One year Larry told me that we shipped out just shy of 1000 exhausts that year, all for rv’s.
I was busy building a supercub replica, getting married, and starting a family. Those were fun years.

After the housing crash in 08’ things briefly got a little quiet, Larry encouraged me to start branching out into manufacturing exhausts for other aircraft types besides just RV’s and we started discussing buying him and Cathy out, and as they say, the rest is history.
As a business, rv’s are still the heart of what we do, but we do quite a bit of exhaust work in the STOL world.
On a side note, I’m also endeavoring to develop a kit on a small scale. You can look up the Badlands Traveler on YouTube to see what’s going on with that.

And now for a funny one on Larry Vetterman;
The day I rolled into his shop, I told him I was planning to build a cub replica, to which he replied “we gotta get you into an RV, you’ll be throwing rocks at the cub!” He gave me a ride in the rv4, yep that was cool, but I gotta finish this cub!
After finishing the cub, Larry helped me fly some of the time off it, and decided he needed one, so he built a Javron kit.
I ended up buying a flying RV4, and then I fully understood just how incredible these planes are!
The RV community is truly a family. Once in awhile we get a situation where someone is broke down, or needs something shipped before a check (yes checks, we’re still old fashioned) can arrive in the mail and people will be surprised about trusting someone you’ve never met to follow through on payment. In my years dealing with the Rv crowd they have been the most honest, wonderful people I could have ever imagined, and I’m so thankful that I and my family get to be a part of it.
 
A Side Note About Larry Vetterman ...

Way back when (early '90's) Van's Homecoming was held at his home at Sunset Airpark up in Hillsboro, OR; and, a lot of us would stay at a motel at the airport to stay close to our planes.

Night life was pretty much limited to the "in house" bar where a lot of us would camp out, including Larry, John Harmon & others significant to the "movement" at the time.

Larry was by far and away the funniest man I ever heard that wasn't getting paid for it! He could have been a very successful comedian, had he chosen that profession - absolutely hilarious!

YMMV - But thanks for listenin'

HFS
 
Vendors

I remember those homecoming days very well as it was our main event of the year. It was document that we attended it 14 years. We quit going when it was moved from vans place.
When I got out of Vietnam in one piece I vowed I would never have another bad day and I guess that morphed into being a little comical sometimes. I always figured that was better than being the opposite. Smiling and laughing is so much better than being grumpy with a bad attitude.
 
thelynns said:
This is a very interesting story. I would love to hear more like this from other vendors.
Click to expand...

When Van’s declared Chapter 11 I know it was a shock to all their dedicated airplane owners, kit customers and to all of us with small businesses that relied heavily on Van’s kit sales. At Isham Inc. (PlaneTools.com) we feel the impact as well.

In 2007, our first official year of offering RV airplane tool kits we sold ten. At that time the tool kits were not our main source of income. Isham Inc. was actually started in 1975 when my dad (Keith) and I (Brad) purchased a 1968 Piper Cherokee 180. The airplane was known as the “Hershey Bar” wing and had a terrible glide ratio.

In 1972 Piper increased the wingspan and the vertical stabilator span with a dramatic performance improvement. I worked as head of sales for Mid-America STOL Aircraft (MASA) and as their experimental test pilot for new development for their many Cessna and Piper STOL and engine conversions. I used to eat spins for breakfast! I will save my flat spin story for another time. My then boss agreed that I could develop my own STC for our Cherokee. Dad and I spent the next year modifying and testing our 180 with our new wing extensions, stabilator extensions and a larger dorsal fin. On June 17, 1976, the FAA issued our Supplemental Type Certificate (STC), and we obtained a Parts Manufacturing Approval (PMA). My Dad passed in 1979 and my wife (Glenna) stepped up by taking over management of the Company. The last couple of years our Grandkids have been learning all aspects of the business and are prepared to take it over when us old folks cannot keep up anymore.

Over the years we developed other STC’s and provided kits to Piper owners with our aluminum wing and stabilator extensions, fiberglass wingtips and dorsal fin. In addition, we developed an engine horsepower increase kit for the Cessna R172K which approved it to operate at 210 horsepower. These modifications became the main stay of our Company through 2015. At that time, we realized that the Van’s tool kits had become the most significant part of our sales. In 2021 we sold our Piper STC’s to Knots2U and concentrated on Van’s tool kits as our main business.

From 2007 tool kit sales of ten increased each year until we topped over 100 kits per year starting in 2010. Our focus was always making our tool kits better based on the feedback we received from each of our customers as they built their airplanes. We invested heavily in developing better and more efficient tools for our kits. One recent early 2022 example, we invested about $10k in improvements to our springback dimple dies. Prior to that we used an existing springback dimple die from PART (Kim Goldin). We methodically produced, tweaked and tested our new dies until we had the perfect design. With Van’s Chapter 11 we will extend our investment recovery over a few more years, but it was worth the investment to supply the best-in-industry springback dimple dies for our kit customers.

I am sure all of the Van’s suppliers and sub-tier vendors have similar history and are facing the same possible lengthy return on their investments. I have a great deal of faith that Van’s will make it through this difficulty and will emerge as a better company. Van’s has too much successful history with their products and loyal customers to fail.

RVer’s . . . Hang in there!
 
In the 1980s a chap in Fort Worth stated to build an RV-4, by trade he was what the English call a toolmaker – not sure what the US term is. He made himself a few special tools to make the whole process easier. Soon his friends were asking him to make a few more of the more complex items. Avery Tools was born. I first met Bob in about 1991 when I dropped into Arlington airport in a rented Cessna 150, got the airport car, and found his house somewhere in a nearby suburb. He was operating from his garage. Later he moved to Hicks airport north west of Fort Worth and built himself a large hangar with his machine shop at the back. In England finding the tools to build an RV in the 1990s was just difficult and expensive. There were plenty of industrial suppliers who charged military/airliner prices. A wonderful ex-RAF Vulcan bomber pilot, Harry Hopkins who had been stationed in Nebraska on an exchange posting and had discovered the RV-4, started to promote RVs in the UK and also to import Bob Avery’s wares as a retirement business. Gloster Air Parts was a fairly small enterprise but gave a focal point for those building RVs in the UK and made it much easier to obtain those essentials that are needed to keep going, for example a new #40 dimple when you drop one and break the pilot off! By making reasonable size orders Harry was able to get good shipping rates and keep the prices at a level below the industrial suppliers. Many of the early RV builders in the UK used Bob Avery’s tools sourced through Gloster Air Parts, and many are still using them!

In time Harry had finished his RV-4 and his charming wife, Val, wanted the space in her house back. My wife, Diana, took on GAP from our spare room. We continued to support RV builders for several years and made a few ££ in the process to support our flying habit. In the mid-2010s a major UK parts supplier, Light Aircraft Spares, made a deal with Aircraft Spruce to import ACS products into the UK. Shortly afterwards LAS decided to move into the tool market, we could not match their prices. At the same time web stores were becoming almost compulsory. Bob Avery was also considering retiring. Sales volumes had been slowly declining year on year. We found builders would call up to discuss what tools were needed then order from the interweb at an apparently cheaper price. We just didn’t have the time to set up a web store. Bob’s tools were always good quality, certainly good enough to finish at least one project and probably 2 or 3. The quality of the internet tools was always questionable, often not even lasting for a wing kit. I was spending a lot of time in the evening providing advice and Diana wasn’t getting the follow-on orders. Eventually Bob retired and Avery Tools closed. After discussing terms with a few of Bob’s larger suppliers and noting that our orders would be *a lot* smaller we also decided to give up. With costs going up and sales dwindling there was little return on the time and effort invested.

The infrastructure that grows up around a company like Van’s is not just in the direct suppliers but in those companies around the world that spring up to service the needs of builders. Almost invariably these are small companies started by people already involved in the Van’s ecosphere. If Van’s disappears or ends up much smaller than currently several of these companies will feel the pinch, indeed several already are. Tool companies make money when builders start a project and buy a tool kit. There is a little to be made in selling a few drills and dimple dies but the larger orders are what is needed to keep companies afloat. If the number of kit starts reduces then expect to see some of these companies branching out into other fields of endeavour.
 
Best thread on VAF

Please keep the stories coming. A breath of fresh air amongst all the negativity!

Thanks to all that have posted!
 
Bob Avery

Great article on Bob. I too built an RV (a 7), I used all tools from Mr. Avery! 1st rate person and quality! I had the opportunity to visit his "shop" after it officially closed in 2017 when working for Jay Pratt for several weeks. What a memory.
Thanks Bob for all your contributions to us builders.
:)
 
Jerry Fischer said:
Great article on Bob. I too built an RV (a 7), I used all tools from Mr. Avery! 1st rate person and quality! I had the opportunity to visit his "shop" after it officially closed in 2017 when working for Jay Pratt for several weeks. What a memory.
Thanks Bob for all your contributions to us builders.
:)
Click to expand...

Yes! I often think of Bob and Avery Tool when I pull out a pack of drill bits with the Avery Logo on them! Most of my airplane building tools came from Bob and are still going strong after all of these years and several airplane projects.

I remember getting to meet them for the first time at Osh. Awesome people!
 
News from Hicks T67

Bob Avery is very much Still,, “In Business”. although no longer in retail.
He is still making all the tools he has been making all these years.
He is selling through Spruce, and other vendors.
I’m on Hicks with my RV Central Builder help hanger. We still go to Bob if we need an Avery tool.
My friend and building partner Troy Thompson has recently moved onto Hicks. He has been building my over flow for 5 years. And helped around my shop since 2001. He has 4 RV10s , and several 2 place RVs going together in his Builder Help Center.
Like Bob Avery ,, I have scaled back a little, so I’m working at Troy’s shop now.
Our small businesses are affected by the lack of parts, but we think this is just a bump in the road. This too will pass, and we will continue building RV kits well into the future.
Merry Christmas everybody.
 
Jaypratt said:
News from Hicks T67

Bob Avery is very much Still,, “In Business”. although no longer in retail.
He is still making all the tools he has been making all these years.
He is selling through Spruce, and other vendors.
I’m on Hicks with my RV Central Builder help hanger. We still go to Bob if we need an Avery tool.
My friend and building partner Troy Thompson has recently moved onto Hicks. He has been building my over flow for 5 years. And helped around my shop since 2001. He has 4 RV10s , and several 2 place RVs going together in his Builder Help Center.
Like Bob Avery ,, I have scaled back a little, so I’m working at Troy’s shop now.
Our small businesses are affected by the lack of parts, but we think this is just a bump in the road. This too will pass, and we will continue building RV kits well into the future.
Merry Christmas everybody.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU for your timely mention of Bob Avery! I helped a friend and RV-8 owner, making repairs to his elevator and rt wingtip. A major local storm (micro burst) at KFFZ in Sept '23, pushed his RV-8 against a wall, damaging the right side wing and elevator. I was using my Avery Assembly Tool to align the hinges, and insert the bolts. The owner was overwhelmed with the genius of the tool, we talked about Avery Tools being 'gone' and therefore he could NOT get the tools for himself. He was ready to beg, borrow, or steal mine and called it a 'golden tool' without equal. Your info that AirCraftSpruce carried Avery items was the a timely answer to his desires. So far, bought two sets, and the RV Jack Tool ... and revisiting to find more.
Avery was a fantastic source for RV builders! Very glad to know that Spruce is still a source, another great supporter, too.
 
Last edited:
Bob is still alive and kicking. I recently contacted him about a special "piece" I needed to fit a fuel sender recessed into the tanks on my current project.
He said, "draw it up" and I'll see what I can do. He turned out the adapters and they are beautiful. Bob loves "special" projects and does impeccable work.
A nicer guy you will never meet. BTW, he still has his RV-4 project sitting around. "Someday!"
 
HFS said:
A Side Note About Larry Vetterman ...

Way back when (early '90's) Van's Homecoming was held at his home at Sunset Airpark up in Hillsboro, OR; and, a lot of us would stay at a motel at the airport to stay close to our planes.
Night life was pretty much limited to the "in house" bar where a lot of us would camp out, including Larry, John Harmon & others significant to the "movement" at the time.
Larry was by far and away the funniest man I ever heard that wasn't getting paid for it! He could have been a very successful comedian, had he chosen that profession - absolutely hilarious!
YMMV - But thanks for listenin'
HFS
Click to expand...
Yep, Larry IS a funny guy. When he came out with the first "crossover" exhaust, I asked him if I could trade in my old 4-pipe system. He said, "Of course. If you trade in your old system, just add $300 to the cost of the new one." Any time Larry and I get together, we can tell jokes, one right after the other, for eons.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top