Not enough Comm frequencies

[HAL Pilot]

It seems like local areas especially near flight schools are becoming over saturated with the limited frequencies available. One solution might be for new build folks and people replacing/upgrading older com radios to purchase the 8.33 kHz radios. Here in the US those bands are not used as far as I understand. If we had a large enough demand possible group buys can be created. Also if there was a large enough user base then when the US does switch to 8.33 frequencies we would have the use case for the powers that be to set aside some dedicated frequencies.

Thoughts?

 

[BobTurner]

It seems like local areas especially near flight schools are becoming over saturated with the limited frequencies available. One solution might be for new build folks and people replacing/upgrading older com radios to purchase the 8.33 kHz radios. Here in the US those bands are not used as far as I understand. If we had a large enough demand possible group buys can be created. Also if there was a large enough user base then when the US does switch to 8.33 frequencies we would have the use case for the powers that be to set aside some dedicated frequencies.

Thoughts?

IMHO there is a basic problem: There are enough pilots that will balk at spending the money to upgrade to 8.33 kHz spacing, that instead they'll simply go "no radio". Remember using CTAF is not mandated by FAR. If you really want this to happen, I think you'll also have to advocate for using CTAF to be mandatory. I can already hear the complaints about 'loss of freedom'. Or, you can advocate to cancel the TSO on any new com radio unless it has 8.33KHz spacing, and wait long enough that all the older radios are out of service. But remember that there are still lots of 121.5 ELTs, and TSO129 (non-WASS) gps's, still in service. It will be a long wait.

 

[rv8ch]

I'm no radio expert, but I think what's needed is a complete overhaul of the way we do aviation radio, not just more frequencies. From the little I've read, there are far better ways to do it.

The 8.33khz transition in Europe has been underway for many years. Some countries have moved quicker than others. The decision to do this was agreed in 1994, started in earnest in 2017, and the "final" transition date is 2027, from what I understand. New radios from the big guys seem to all have 8.33khz, but they still sell older models with only 25khz. Most Europeans sold their old 25khz radios to our friends in the US, since we were required to have 8.33khz. I would not hold my breath for an 8.33khz transition in the US.

 

[BH1166]

I'm no radio expert, but I think what's needed is a complete overhaul of the way we do aviation radio, not just more frequencies. From the little I've read, there are far better ways to do it.

The 8.33khz transition in Europe has been underway for many years. Some countries have moved quicker than others. The decision to do this was agreed in 1994, started in earnest in 2017, and the "final" transition date is 2027, from what I understand. New radios from the big guys seem to all have 8.33khz, but they still sell older models with only 25khz. Most Europeans sold their old 25khz radios to our friends in the US, since we were required to have 8.33khz. I would not hold my breath for an 8.33khz transition in the US.

Seems too many on 122.8…. Airports can move to another frequency easily. I surveyed my area of airports, and petitioned county to change to a less burdened frequency. I did the work, they just signed the forms. We don’t need more, just locally better utilization of what is available IMHO

 

[jbDC9]

Seems too many on 122.8…. Airports can move to another frequency easily. I surveyed my area of airports, and petitioned county to change to a less burdened frequency. I did the work, they just signed the forms. We don’t need more, just locally better utilization of what is available IMHO

Yep. On a nice weather day in Texas, 122.8 sounds like a CB radio, squeals and noise from too many airports using it as unicom, while 122.7, 123.0, 123.05 are a good bit quieter... seems like a redistribution of these freqs would help.

 

[Ridders]

I'm no radio expert, but I think what's needed is a complete overhaul of the way we do aviation radio, not just more frequencies. From the little I've read, there are far better ways to do it.

The 8.33khz transition in Europe has been underway for many years. Some countries have moved quicker than others. The decision to do this was agreed in 1994, started in earnest in 2017, and the "final" transition date is 2027, from what I understand. New radios from the big guys seem to all have 8.33khz, but they still sell older models with only 25khz. Most Europeans sold their old 25khz radios to our friends in the US, since we were required to have 8.33khz. I would not hold my breath for an 8.33khz transition in the US.

The accelerator in the UK was that Ofcom 8.33 channel licenses for airfelds were priced significantly lower cost to license than 25Khz Frequency ones - so most civillian airfields moved quickly over to 8.33 if they could. My base which is Air/Ground used to be 129.725 and moved to 129.730.
Conversely the military have moved slowly, many still have 25Khz Frequencies and 121.5 is still of course 121.5 and London Information is still 25KHz…. SafetyCom (the equivalent to Unicom) has moved to 8.33.

heres how it works (channels vs frequency….. ) so basically 3 in space of 1 previously.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0023/144590/Understanding-8.33kHz-frequencies-and-their-specific-channel-number.pdf

I redeployed my old Icom handhelds to hangars at the airfield, even though they are 25KHz they receive the 8.33 transmissions ok on our frequency ( Its when someone transmits on a 25KHz bandwith that an 8.33 filtered radio wont like it!)

 

[BobTurner]

Seems too many on 122.8…. Airports can move to another frequency easily. I surveyed my area of airports, and petitioned county to change to a less burdened frequency. I did the work, they just signed the forms. We don’t need more, just locally better utilization of what is available IMHO

^^^This may be the solution. Here in NorCal I’d say 122.8 is used at less than half the airports.

 

[Bill Boyd]

IMHO there is a basic problem: There are enough pilots that will balk at spending the money to upgrade to 8.33 kHz spacing, that instead they'll simply go "no radio". Remember using CTAF is not mandated by FAR. If you really want this to happen, I think you'll also have to advocate for using CTAF to be mandatory. I can already hear the complaints about 'loss of freedom'. Or, you can advocate to cancel the TSO on any new com radio unless it has 8.33KHz spacing, and wait long enough that all the older radios are out of service. But remember that there are still lots of 121.5 ELTs, and TSO129 (non-WASS) gps's, still in service. It will be a long wait.

Probably easy enough to stipulate that Unicom, CTAF and possibly Multicom frequencies be multiples of 25 kHz so the older radios will tune them. The cash-flush owners of the heavy iron can use the *plethoara* of new 8.33-spaced freqs "in the system" while the penny-strapped piston single fliers get to enjoy less-crowded vintage 25kHz channels.

With modern radio tech, fitting not three but 4 analog voice channels in a 25kHz slot on amplitude-modulated VHF is easily done and I'm not sure why it wasn't. Manufacturers probably lobbied to save money on decent IF filtering, but soon enough everything will be software-defined radio and the filtering possibilities enormous and dirt cheap to implement. Pretty sure if this initiative had kicked off in Europe in the 21st century and not the 20th, that's where the tech would have been anchored. Imagine the Unicom channels with no annoying heterodynes within the range of human hearing - because all the carriers on a given channel were within 20 Hz of each other, coming from oven-stabilized crystal-referenced frequency synthesis. The comms tech in aviation lags far behind what we are now capable of in less regulated spaces.