Van's Air Force
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Napa to Roswell in an RV9A An Epic Journey
- Thread starter SVTPete83
- Start date
scsmith
Well Known Member
Great trip!
I'd like to make a suggestion which I would direct to everybody about landing at Sedona, or any other airport with a steep bluff on the approach end of the runway. Other examples are Truckee rwy 20 and Telluride rwy 3. There are surely others, but those are the ones I'm aware of. The steep bluff creates a tremendous hazard of sinking, turbulent air as the wind leaves the edge of the mesa and curls downward in a big eddy. I call this a "clutching hand".
You mentioned that it took "75% power to maintain the desired descent". If there was a little more wind, and/or it was a little hotter, you could easily have reached WOT and still sinking too fast. What then? Stronger wind obviously intensifies the clutching hand, and high density altitude reduces your available climb power. I watched a Cessna 180 disappear below the edge and heard it fly into the face of the bluff at Truckee. years ago. I still remember that sound. It was a glider tow plane that was stripped down and single occupant and less than half fuel, so it was light. It still couldn't make it through the clutching hand and hit about 30 ft below the lip of the mesa. There have also been a couple of gliders at Truckee over the years that didn't make the runway.
In this situation, you have to recognize early that you are sinking too fast to make the runway and turn away to the side while you still have room to turn. But the sink intensifies as you get closer to the lip, so by the time you recognize you are not going to make it, it may be too late.
My suggestion for airports like this is to never extend your downwind beyond the numbers. All three of these airports have plenty of runway so that you can fly your base leg right at the numbers and easily get down and stopped. This way you are always over the flat airport surface, and you will not encounter any of the sink and turbulence. You will make a nice happy landing, never knowing what peril lurked just off the end of the runway.
I'd like to make a suggestion which I would direct to everybody about landing at Sedona, or any other airport with a steep bluff on the approach end of the runway. Other examples are Truckee rwy 20 and Telluride rwy 3. There are surely others, but those are the ones I'm aware of. The steep bluff creates a tremendous hazard of sinking, turbulent air as the wind leaves the edge of the mesa and curls downward in a big eddy. I call this a "clutching hand".
You mentioned that it took "75% power to maintain the desired descent". If there was a little more wind, and/or it was a little hotter, you could easily have reached WOT and still sinking too fast. What then? Stronger wind obviously intensifies the clutching hand, and high density altitude reduces your available climb power. I watched a Cessna 180 disappear below the edge and heard it fly into the face of the bluff at Truckee. years ago. I still remember that sound. It was a glider tow plane that was stripped down and single occupant and less than half fuel, so it was light. It still couldn't make it through the clutching hand and hit about 30 ft below the lip of the mesa. There have also been a couple of gliders at Truckee over the years that didn't make the runway.
In this situation, you have to recognize early that you are sinking too fast to make the runway and turn away to the side while you still have room to turn. But the sink intensifies as you get closer to the lip, so by the time you recognize you are not going to make it, it may be too late.
My suggestion for airports like this is to never extend your downwind beyond the numbers. All three of these airports have plenty of runway so that you can fly your base leg right at the numbers and easily get down and stopped. This way you are always over the flat airport surface, and you will not encounter any of the sink and turbulence. You will make a nice happy landing, never knowing what peril lurked just off the end of the runway.
Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
At Sedona it is/was recommended to takeoff downhill, other things being equal. With a bunch of wind, Runway 3 is okay, as it was in this video.
RV8JD
Well Known Member
Great advice. I'll add that if you do fly a long final, fly a higher, steeper approach with appropriate extra speed and plan to touch down well past the numbers.
Years ago a friend was landing his Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 sailplane at Pangborn (KEAT) on a windy day. The end of the approach end of runway 30 drops of in a somewhat terraced fashion down to the Columbia River. My friend got caught in the downwash as he approached the runway and ended up landing on a very short portion of one of the terraces below the runway's elevation and hit the cliff wall at the end of the flat portion of the terrace. Luckily he was moving slowly enough that the forward fuselage absorbed the impact but with substantial damage. He walked away with only scratches, bruises and soreness (and he was covered in dust when we got to him!). It could have been much worse.
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PilotjohnS
Well Known Member
I went to Sedona shortly after you and landed runway 3 and took off runway 21. It seemed much easier as there was no rising terrain on takeoff and the whole valley was below to climb in a High Density altitude case.
As far as the landing on 3 goes, I came in high and aimed for 1/3 down the runway. that way the clutching hand would let me end up on the numbers. in fact my first attempt was too high and i had to overfly and try again.
As far as the landing on 3 goes, I came in high and aimed for 1/3 down the runway. that way the clutching hand would let me end up on the numbers. in fact my first attempt was too high and i had to overfly and try again.
The main cameras I use are all from gorpro. A 6, 8 and two max 360s are my usual combo. Thanks for checking out the video!
Thanks all for checking out the video! I love the conversation this has created with some awesome advice. It is tough to see on the camera but we did fly a higher pattern with a more steep deck angle coming in for this exact reason. We have landed here before on both runways and you definitely get the sink coming from either end. Its wild. I am more comfortable landing on the runway we did because we have an uphill rollout. But the go around does point you at terrain. Either way, I love the conversation and am thankful for this community! Keep the blue side up fellas!!
