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Feeling sold out

wcalvert

wcalvert

Well Known Member
I'll do my best here to say what might be on everyone's mind ... the elephant in the room so to speak. Might just be me ...

In the mean time, I got some rivets to shoot. Cheers

EDIT: Boy, this post certainly went off the rails from the original ... case in point
 
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I do get a chuckle from the trophies, reaction scores, badges, large smilies collection, and like button. But I'm sure they are necessary to keep younger folks interested! 🥱

The community has changed, the LCP and Chapter 11 threads show that. And the much, much higher costs for everything needed to build, maintain, and operate an RV has/will change the community, along with the continued move from 'builder' to 'assembler'.
 
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RV8JD said:
I do get a chuckle from the trophies, reaction scores, badges, large smilies collection, and like button. But I'm sure they are necessary to keep younger folks interested! 🥱

The community has changed, the LCP threads show that. And the much, much higher costs for everything needed to build, maintain, and operate an RV has/will change the community, along with the continued move from 'builder' to 'assembler'.
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There is a great episode from the show "Black Mirror" Season 3, Episode 1 titled "Nosedive"
The description is, "The story of “Nosedive” is centered around Lacie and how she fairs in this society where people are scored in an app. In the app, the lowest score is 0 and the highest score is 5. Your place in society is determined by how others rate you in the app. If your rating is high enough, you can get a better job, buy a house, and have access to many other benefits."
While the show is an exaggerated look at the future the scoring and points and reactions of this site reminded of this episode immediately.
Don't get me wrong I like the site but will never push a like button.
 
I'm with Carl - a grandfatherly smile at the trophies, badges, etc. that came with this change.
I get great value from VAF, thank you Doug! [ed. You're very welcome, and thank you sir! v/r,dr]
Just made my donation.
 
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Hopefully, the feeling will pass. Change is sometimes a hard pill to swallow.
Yes, I'll continue to support the site. The way I see it, VAF has always been a full-blown commercial enterprise since the site is Doug's primary source of income. I get what you mean though, the new changes take away the 'home business' feel.
the new site takes some time to get used to. I understand and appreciate the effort it took, and continues to take to get everything up to speed. I'm really glad to see 2FA as an option now.
 
For anyone following this post. I've had a good talk with the moderators and some back and forth feedback. As I said originally, this site is gold and represents a lot of work on the part of many, not just DR. I'll let this rest for the benefit of the community.
 
It took a few days for me to get accustomed to the new forum looks and navigation, but all and all, I like the format better than before now. I DO miss the member location that used to be displayed under the members ID. I know we can hoover over it now for that info. I also don't like the badging either. JMHO.
 
RV8JD said:
I do get a chuckle from the trophies, reaction scores, badges, large smilies collection, and like button. But I'm sure they are necessary to keep younger folks interested! 🥱

The community has changed, the LCP and Chapter 11 threads show that. And the much, much higher costs for everything needed to build, maintain, and operate an RV has/will change the community, along with the continued move from 'builder' to 'assembler'.
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I've been search for the words on what has happened in the last few years of "experimental" building. 'Builder' to 'Assembler' sums it up.
 
I have never read so much bellyaching about the changes DR implemented on his site he has been somehow amazingly been keeping afloat because so few users of the site can pay a measly 25$ per year. When he posts the end of year tally on the meager donations he receives I really get a bellyache. So put on your big boy pants , “ donate” 25$ or more and keep on learning, building, sharing, selling, buying, posting to this site which has helped so many RV’ers.
 
DanH said:
There are things I miss about the old site, but as a tool, this one is better.
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Pretty much this (which if that was all I was going to write, that's what the "like" button etc. are for--the "me too" and "yeah, that" without posting "me too" and "yeah, that")

Honestly I'm so used to this basic software from other forums I frequent it's a nice, easy transition. Saved drafts and better quoting functionality (it's far easier now to select a portion vs. the entire post) top the list.
 
Soapbox:

My first computer was a Commodore 128. I was AMAZED at what that machine could do! And it (to this day) has the smoothest keyboard on the planet! It had those huge floppy disks and a disk drive that sounded like a dishwasher! The monitor screen was GREEN and my printer was dot matrix. I'm ashamed to say it is still in the basement in the 'computer museum'. When I was a medical resident, we had beepers to keep in touch with our clinic and patient population. We invested in a portable phone affectionally known as The Brick for those of us who had to be on call and needed immediate access to a phone. THAT was an amazing device! Otherwise, when the infernal beeper went off, we had to search around for the nearest pay phone. My first phone was a Motorola Flip Phone. WHAT an amazing piece of technology THAT was. About twice the size of a beeper and, not only could you receive and make phone calls, but you could also take PICTURES with it! OMG!! Technology was out-of-control!! There are a lot of people on this forum that can identify with all of this. There are a lot that have no CLUE as to what I am referring to.

Since then, things seem to have advanced at a rapid rate. When I built SuzieQ, I had what was, at the time, a pretty advanced panel that I still really like, by the way. The Rocky Mountain Instrument muEncoder was an amazing piece of instrument technology that you, like the airplane, built yourself! And it worked amazingly well! It is on my desk at home, having been replaced by much advanced instrumentation. And I still have a very simple panel with a majority of the instruments round and analog. Did I mention I like it?

I remember dial-up. Had an AOL account. Remember that sound? Forums and chat rooms were rare. I was on a forum called The Well that was an amazing collection of people from all over the world that would talk about nearly anything, It included some celebrities like Daid Crosby. An amazing community.

When I first became aware of this forum, I regretted not having it when SuzieQ was coming together. It has since been an amazing source of information, friendship from an amazing group of people that come together from all over the WORLD to build/fly RV's. I no longer use my Commodore. My flip phone is in a desk drawer. I like the old VAF format but am quickly adapting and appreciating the new format. I am still on the DARK mode! I log on, on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. I contribute when I can but mostly cruise the amazing amount of information that is in this forum.

The only thing that stays the same is change. I really like my RV-4 but appreciate the newer models that have come after. Would I have a side-by-side? Nope. Someone sitting next to me would scare the stuffing out of me. 🤣

I liked the old format; I like the new format. I will always support the effort of keeping this forum going with what I can afford to contribute. Thank you Doug and your supporting crew of folks that bring us this indispensable resource. Keep up your most excellent work. Looking forward to the improvements you will incorporate into this new look!

PS: DONATE.....
 
Roadjunkie1 said:
My first computer was a Commodore 128. I was AMAZED at what that machine could do!
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I learned to program on a TRS-80 Color Computer, then the C128, then I moved on to an Amiga which blew me away. Finally, after cutting grass for two summers, I could afford a US Robotics 9600 HST modem and WOW! BBS's couldn't get any faster.
 
Roadjunkie1 said:
My first computer was a Commodore 128.
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You whippersnappers with your 128KB of RAM! I started with a C64! :ROFLMAO:

I literally did not sleep for 3 days while I played with that thing after I first got it - it was amazing to have my own computer, in my house!

I like the new site better, and on mobile it's actually very usable. I'm still in IT, and for those that are, they know the amazing "win" that this migration represents. I'm very happy that you guys were able to pull this off. I migrated my little build blog a few years ago, and it was very hard, and didn't turn out 10% as good as the VAF migration. This website migration was a very impressive achievement!

Some people will complain about the weight if you hand them a gold brick. "Pay no attention to the critics, don't even ignore them!" -Yogi
 
I’ve enjoyed the challenge of finding my way around the new site and exploring the features. That’s what I love about tech, and I’m a huge tech junkie. At the end of the day, even with the changes this site provides more value than at least 95% of the internet. Thanks to Doug and team for keeping things fresh and moving things forward.
 
Cholley6 said:
The only thing I miss is having the front page pop up first. Especially with everything going on at Van's. It was easy to see if there were any big updates without looking through the different forums.
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There's a notice system that can be used for things like this.
 
Like others, the older I get the less accepting I am of change. Learning this new format is requiring me to adapt old habits to newer processes - ugh! The good news is that I’m still able to make these changes.

Now if I could just figure out how to use my new “all in one” desktop computer with MicroSoft 11 and Office 2021/360. Specifically the spreadsheet on this forum that allows one to analyze GRT engine data downloads. Could really use some help here! Any Utube videos out there?

This forum is a great source of information - unfortunately - my ability to absorb and utilize everything available on this forum is becoming increasingly a greater challenge as the world moves further away from my “boomer” generation. Getting old - S#$Ks!
 
Ok since we are bragging... My first computer was a Digital PDP-8 with a Teletype for input / output. The Teletype had a paper tape punch / Reader for "rapid program entry".

I LIKE the new site. Good Job Dan!
 
What no mention of punching and stacking cards for an overnight run and then rearranging and editing it for the next night’s run? Then being thrilled 10 or so years later with the TI 99 with cassette and then with 64k, 8 bit, CPM operating system and floppy drives years before IBM got their PC. Yes I’m now feeling old and I did walk to school in the snow uphill both ways…..home and school on different hills.
 
scottmillhouse said:
What no mention of punching and stacking cards for an overnight run and then rearranging and editing it for the next night’s run? Then being thrilled 10 or so years later with the TI 99 with cassette and then with 64k, 8 bit, CPM operating system and floppy drives years before IBM got their PC. Yes I’m now feeling old and I did walk to school in the snow uphill both ways…..home and school on different hills.
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We could run CP/M on the C128, it had a Z80 ... but as for punch cards ... okay, you win.
 
rv8ch said:
I started with a C64! :ROFLMAO:
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Me to. Started my home computing with a Commodore 64, and ran Basic and a bootlegged copy of Microsoft MultiPlan on it using a modded dongle (Statute of Limitations have hopefully run out!)

Started computing years earlier in 1971 with the mainframe IBM 360 using Fortran IV and punch cards at the University I attended, studying Aerospace Engineering.
 
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If anything that the turmoil at Van's has reminded me is what has always been true in my experience, the only constant is change. So when you have access to a good thing, I try to recognize it for what it is. This site is no different in that regards. When I am presented with a change as this new site format is after I assess the impact to this creature of habit that I am, I take a deep breath before I start complaining, smile and realize that it is for the better since there are no guarantees. It could always possibly be for the worse.
 
bkervaski said:
We could run CP/M on the C128, it had a Z80 ... but as for punch cards ... okay, you win.
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I was in a R&R band🎸 and had a friend who ran computer cards on the overnight shift (now THOSE were the days!!) make up a bunch of punch cards (pink!) with the name of our band on the top dot-matrix print line! We used them as our calling card!!!:LOL:
 
scottmillhouse said:
What no mention of punching and stacking cards for an overnight run and then rearranging and editing it for the next night’s run? Then being thrilled 10 or so years later with the TI 99 with cassette and then with 64k, 8 bit, CPM operating system and floppy drives years before IBM got their PC. Yes I’m now feeling old and I did walk to school in the snow uphill both ways…..home and school on different hills.
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And you haven't lived until you dropped a box of unverified punch cards.
 
mstrauss said:
I realize I am dating myself, but does anyone but me remember the Timex Sinclair 1000, with its 1 or 2 KB? Sold for $100. Them were the early days of home computers.
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Yes I had a Timex Sinclair but I do not remember the number being attached to the 1000 model number. It may have been ZX81 or something like that.
 
I still have not stumbled on the "off-topic" photos. But did find many, many, preference options in my account.

Edit - found the off-topic from main page - - it takes 3 clicks.
 
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Roadjunkie1 said:
I was in a R&R band🎸 and had a friend who ran computer cards on the overnight shift (now THOSE were the days!!) make up a bunch of punch cards (pink!) with the name of our band on the top dot-matrix print line! We used them as our calling card!!!:LOL:
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My younger brother did that overnight thing too. He still remembers the night he drop a box of punch cards down an elevator shaft getting off an elevator.
 
My first computer- In the early 80s I built an LNW-80 with my dad. Basically a homebrew Trash-80. Spent hours playing Android Nim and trying to fix keyboard bounce… which proved to be valuable experience later in life trying to master the Collins Proline FMS. My first store bought computer was a VIC-20, forerunner to the C64. Good times.
 
gyoung said:
And you haven't lived until you dropped a box of unverified punch cards.
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You are so right. I was waiting my turn to put my cards into the reader and another guy in the room, who literally had a foot or more of unnumbered cards, dropped them. Everyone in the room was silent and completely empathetic. He started freaking out, screaming, and kicking the cards everywhere. We all understood. This was a rite of passage in those days, especially if you didn't take the solid advice of numbering your cards (which was a hassle).
 
rv8ch said:
You are so right. I was waiting my turn to put my cards into the reader and another guy in the room, who literally had a foot or more of unnumbered cards, dropped them. Everyone in the room was silent and completely empathetic. He started freaking out, screaming, and kicking the cards everywhere. We all understood. This was a rite of passage in those days, especially if you didn't take the solid advice of numbering your cards (which was a hassle).
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The trick that the operators used to keep a stack of cards intact was to draw a couple of diagonal lines across the side with a felt pen. It was still a pain in the butt to reassemble the stack, but at least it could be done.

The first computer I learned to program in 1977 was HP 9830. The display was a row of red characters and it cost over $20K.

HP9830A-HP9866.png
 
PaulvS said:
The trick that the operators used to keep a stack of cards intact was to draw a couple of diagonal lines across the side with a felt pen. It was still a pain in the butt to reassemble the stack, but at least it could be done.

The first computer I learned to program in 1977 was HP 9830. The display was a row of red characters and it cost over $20K.

View attachment 54484
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I can’t even tell you what I programmed that computer to do because it was classified! 🫣
 
scottmillhouse said:
What no mention of punching and stacking cards for an overnight run and then rearranging and editing it for the next night’s run? Then being thrilled 10 or so years later with the TI 99 with cassette and then with 64k, 8 bit, CPM operating system and floppy drives years before IBM got their PC. Yes I’m now feeling old and I did walk to school in the snow uphill both ways…..home and school on different hills.
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Fortran, PL1, Cobol, with a dose of IBM 360 assembly language. Yep did punch cards, wire frame memory, and disk packs all for a computer science minor. "Graduated" to a TRS-80 Model 1 then moved to a a model 2 and learned SCO Unix. Can still ViI and grep with the best.... amazing what we did with 8 bits and 16K. Certainly learned to code small and tight, unlike todays spaghetti soup where the answer is just throw some more RAM and processor speed at it.
 
I remember the Timex Sinclair. I first programmed on a TRS-80... my high school had one and I was able to bring it home for the Summer! I saved my programming to a cassette player attached to it. The first computer I owned was a TI-99/4A... what will the next 50 years bring?
 
docjjrmd said:
Fortran, PL1, Cobol, with a dose of IBM 360 assembly language. Yep did punch cards, wire frame memory, and disk packs all for a computer science minor. "Graduated" to a TRS-80 Model 1 then moved to a a model 2 and learned SCO Unix. Can still ViI and grep with the best.... amazing what we did with 8 bits and 16K. Certainly learned to code small and tight, unlike todays spaghetti soup where the answer is just throw some more RAM and processor speed at it.
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Wow! Cassette player … your rich kids! I had to create a menu and renumber all my BASIC programs and pray the power didn’t go off! (wish I was kidding)

Extra points if you remember what BASIC stands for without googling it.
 
RV8JD said:
Me to. Started my home computing with a Commodore 64, and ran Basic and a bootlegged copy of Microsoft MultiPlan on it using a modded dongle (Statute of Limitations have hopefully run out!)

Started computing years earlier in 1971 with the mainframe IBM 360 using Fortran IV and punch cards at the University I attended, studying Aerospace Engineering.
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You might be surprised to know that Fortran is still alive and kicking many decades later. My youngest is studying meterology and he took a class to learn it. Apparently most of the complex model programs that NOAA/NWS created/use are fortran based. I suspect all of the newer stuff is just too high level to be efficient with the calculation load that these programs must use. Or maybe just too much legacy code to consider migration. But I don't think it is just holding on the past, as he tells me they still write new programs with it today. I suspect that it is cheaper to spend extra money to write the programs in Fortran than to throw money at server farms to deal with the inefficiency of the modern stuff.

I was a business guy, so most of my early experience was with cobol and later Basic as I played with 8086 clones in my early professional career. As a teenager, I remember my brother got an atari computer, guessing it was less than 64K, as it was the 70's. Too busy fixing cars to play with computers back then.
 
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To some degree I look at the badges, scores, etc and I am reminded of a time in my senior year in high school (oh so long ago) when I wanted a new pickup. I was arguing my case to my dad, and told him the local dealership was having a big sale this weekend and I didn't want to miss it, and he just rolled his eyes and "Oh, really?"

And yeah, I've run punch cards, cassette readers, and 8" floppies. Those were great days...
 
airguy said:
To some degree I look at the badges, scores, etc and I am reminded of a time in my senior year in high school (oh so long ago) when I wanted a new pickup. I was arguing my case to my dad, and told him the local dealership was having a big sale this weekend and I didn't want to miss it, and he just rolled his eyes and "Oh, really?"

And yeah, I've run punch cards, cassette readers, and 8" floppies. Those were great days...
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Ah yes, the time spent debugging, Commodore PETs, cassette tapes, floppys, punch cards, FORTRAN, PASCAL, COBOL...good times. :cool:

I remember when we got a VAX VMS system at school, and they stopped using punch cards. I can remember the sight of punch cards going out a 10th story window...and it was happening all over campus. I'd bet, if you looked hard enough, you'd still find some laying around, in that town...
 
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