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Van's Aircraft Business Update - February 17th (video)

airguy said:
Valid point, I hadn't considered that angle. I think it's going to be pretty thin for a while - folks considering starting a new kit are going to have to get used to the new prices and check their numbers, make sure they still want to do this. On top of that, I personally would wait until Vans exits Chapter 11 successfully before starting a new airplane with them.

Most of the 81% of re-order acceptance people will still be buying future kits, only the re-orders that went to the finish or FWF kits are "done". So Vans knows there is good future income on the table for those folks picking up their final kits. But a whole new airplane being started right now? That's going to be pretty scarce until Ch 11 is over, I think.
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So I was one of those that risked $6k and started a new build on an RV 10 during this whole Chapter 11 upset. Having said that, I didn't order directly from Van's but bought a partially built kit from another builder. But still, it's a risk I took. The company may not survive and chances were that I'd be better off keeping the money in the bank. However, I was willing to take that risk based on some very simple facts:
  • Van's has been around for 50 years.
  • They've always had great products with excellent quality. (I previously built and flew an RV 7)
  • There's a huge, very loyal community of clients so there was no way people were just going to let them down.
  • Biggest creditor was Van's himself and I've always been impressed with his manner, e.g. he's humble, non-flashy, community orientated, and seems to be beyond reproach. (unlike some politicians I won't name)
  • Van's was also the first to put down a credit line for the company, which told me he was willing to stand by it.
Anyway, that was my reasoning and from this video it seems like I was right.
 
airguy said:
I think it's going to be pretty thin for a while - folks considering starting a new kit are going to have to get used to the new prices and check their numbers, make sure they still want to do this.

Most of the 81% of re-order acceptance people will still be buying future kit....
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I would bet there are more new project orders (tail kits) coming in than most would expect. And to Greg N's point, the current backlog of kits in progress will float Van's for probably a couple years, after which, IMO, LCPs and Ch11 will be forgotten memories of new customers, if they were even aware to begin with.
 
bertschb said:
I see it a little differently. Everybody knows Vans made several poor decisions that lead to where we are now. Am I happy about that? Of course not. The problem I have is some folks just can't let go of this and continue to kick the horse loooooong after it's dead. Yes, people have a right to vent but it gets really old seeing the same negative posts over and over and over and over for months on end. Vans can't change the past and neither can we. It seems more constructive to focus on what Vans is now doing right - which is quite a bit! Should we cheer the company on or continue to criticize and break it down? At what point do we accept what happened and move on?

And just so you know - this bankruptcy affects me too. The bankruptcy has cost me $22,942 to date. I'm guessing it will be $25,000 before it's done.
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When were you born? When did you join the Van's crowd? A lot of one's position in life depends one these questions.
I started my Van's journey in 1990 with a very slow build RV-6.
A total kit for an RV-6 was $9,867.00 I have receipts to prove it.
So I've dodged the current problem as I now have an RV-6 and an RV-6A.
If I was just starting this and got caught in the bankruptcy debacle it would hurt me also
But, I built houses for a living for 42 years and about 20 years ago we had the "Spotted Owl" problem in the Pacific Northwest and after it flew over and screwed with the lumber market real bad. I was loosing $10 to $12,500 on the houses that I had contracted to build, Because of steep price increases and lack of supply. Now, that was a sizable chunk of change on the three custom houses before I could charge more. Lumber priced doubled in one week. Put that in our brain and do the math. OUCH big time.
Yes, I know it's not a bankruptcy,
But, it plays into when you were born and began this journey.
It really hurts if you are on a budget.
My luck varies Fixit
 
greghughespdx said:
We have teams working on delivery schedules now, and will communicate that info as soon as we have it down solid. That is true for kits as well as engines and propellers.

The Van's and Lycoming teams are working through the many details that define that schedule, and we don't yet have the details to share but as soon as it's available it will be communicated by Lycoming and/or Van's. I know both Lycoming's and Van's team have been overwhelmed with calls and emails asking about schedules -- Please know that as soon as the details are available you will hear from us, and our folks don't yet have the information to share. I'd just ask that you let the teams work on the details knowing they'll be reaching out as soon as they are able. They really want to be able to let you know and are working hard on the plan. Thank you for your patience on this!
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Hi @greghughespdx , good morning!

Another month ending, and it's been a month since the last official update. Is there a new update for the community coming up? Any news on Lycoming engine delivery schedules?

I don't mean to be pushy but, please, keep communication going :)
 
4th March is the next major milestone in the Ch 11. I do not expect major news until then as they probably are busy finishing the plan.
 
didja said:
sounds like probably still trying to iron things out with Lycoming.....
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Wonder what there is to “iron out”. I thought they said they had a face to face meeting a month or two ago. Both parties need to put out a communication that says more than “it’s so complicated, just be patient”. Let us know is it financial, manufacturing, parts availability, company priorities or lack thereof. It’s not asking for much, and old Vans I would have tolerated more of this silence because that’s just the way things were handled. Now that we know there is more to the story we have done our part by agreeing to new pricing, and we all want them to succeed. Vans (and Lycoming honestly) needs to communicate with us.
 
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