What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Phase 1 limitations

hecilopter

Well Known Member
I have a buddy with a -7A that he purchased and the original builder did not put any aerobatics in the Phase 1 sign off in the logs. It is now in Phase 2. What does he need to do to get the aerobatic limitations added to the Phase 1 logs? Does he just need to put it back in Phase 1, do the appropriate aerobatic testing, log it, and then back to Phase 2?

Thanks for responses.
 
That sound right and is typical, but to be sure you have to check operating limitations for that airplane.. this should be spelled out in there.. and only what says there is what applies..

As you may have seen, over the years there were several versions of ops limitations issued, so using someone else's wording is not what he'd wanna do.
 
Adding aerobatic maneuvers is a "Major Change", so you must follow the procedure for incorporating a major change as called out in the aircraft's operating limitations.

First, it's important to check the operating limitations to make sure that aerobatics are allowed in the airplane. This is important since some operating limitations get issued without aerobatic approval even when the aircraft is capable of performing aerobatics.

Once you have determined that aerobatics are allowed in the aircraft, you follow the major change procedure called out in the operating limitations. This will put the aircraft back into a phase 1 situation, which will allow you to flight test and document your aerobatic maneuvers. Record the maneuvers in the aircraft records as called out in the operating limitations, then place the aircraft back in phase 2 (again as directed by the operating limitations).
 
Just to add to Joe's post...

First, it's important to check the operating limitations to make sure that aerobatics are allowed in the airplane. This is important since some operating limitations get issued without aerobatic approval even when the aircraft is capable of performing aerobatics.

If you find that the operating limitations prohibit aerobatics, you can have them amended to include aerobatic operations.
However, be aware, the inspector/DAR will probably want to inspect the aircraft to make sure that there wasn't a valid reason for the original limitation.
 
Operation Limitations

A hangar neighbor approached me with a DAR question about flying his Pitts Model 12 (which was used for airshows) at night, and originally issued airworthiness by the FAA FSDO in another state.

I told him to get his Operating Limitations out and I'd show him.When we looked at them, his Pitts had been certified NON-aerobatic. Man, was he ticked!

The local FSDO corrected the problem in one visit.
 
When we looked at them, his Pitts had been certified NON-aerobatic. Man, was he ticked.

This isn't the first time this has happened. I helped a fellow who had just bought a Pitts S1 that had been flying (and doing aerobatics) for years. The operating limitations did not allow aerobatics!! Pays to read those things!!
 
Re-opening this old thread with a follow-up question. My operating limitations allow for aerobatic maneuvers, provided that each maneuver is tested in phase 1:

If aerobatic maneuvers are intended to be performed during phase II, those maneuvers must be satisfactorily accomplished and recorded in the maintenance records. Aerobatic flight testing is not complete until sufficient flight experience has been gained to establish that the aircraft is satisfactorily controllable during the aerobatic maneuver tested. Upon completion of flight testing, the owner/operator must make the following or similar entry in the maintenance records:

"I certify that the following aerobatic maneuvers have been test flown , and that the aircraft is controllable throughout the maneuvers' normal range of speeds. The flight-tested aerobatic maneuvers and speeds are _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ , and _ _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ ." During phase II operations, aerobatic maneuvers that were not documented per this limitation may not be performed. The owner may place the aircraft back into phase I for the sole purpose of adding additional aerobatic maneuvers to the aircraft authorized maneuvers. (45)​

I may one day want to do aerobatics, but I do not have any aerobatic training currently, and I am nearing the end of my phase I testing. What exactly is involved in placing the aircraft back into phase I, if I decide to get trained and test aerobatic maneuvers much later on? Is this a letter to the FSDO? A logbook entry? Hire a DAR again?

There is a paragraph in my operating limitations that describe putting it back into phase I after incorporating a major change, but not about how to do it for testing aerobatic maneuvers:

14. After incorporating a major change as described in§ 21 .93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with§ 91 .319(b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area. If the major change includes installing a different type of engine (reciprocating to turbine) or a change of a fixed pitch from or to a controllable propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised FAA Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch, AFS-750. All operations must be conducted under day visual flight rules (VFR) conditions over a sparsely populated area in compliance with § 91 .305. The aircraft must remain in flight test for a minimum of 5 hours. The FSDO may require additional time (more than 5 hours) depending on the extent of the modification. Persons nonessential to the flight must not be carried. The aircraft owner must make an aircraft maintenance record entry describing the change before the test flight. Following satisfactory completion of the required number of flight hours in the flight test area, the pilot must certify in the records that the aircraft has been shown to comply with§ 91 .319(b}. Compliance with§ 91.319(b} must be recorded in the maintenance records with the following, or a similarly worded, statement: "I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation." (23)​
 
We just did this to ours since the wife has done some aero training and was comfortable enough to go up and do the manuevers. Our initial logbook entry reads "The aircraft is being returned to phase 1 testing for the sole purpose of adding aerobatic maneuvers".

She then took the quick hop back to our phase 1 area and accomplished everything she wanted to. Once she landed, we made the "I certify that the following....." entry and topped it off with, "The aircraft is now being removed from phase 1 and being put back into phase 2".
 
We just did this to ours since the wife has done some aero training and was comfortable enough to go up and do the manuevers. Our initial logbook entry reads "The aircraft is being returned to phase 1 testing for the sole purpose of adding aerobatic maneuvers".

She then took the quick hop back to our phase 1 area and accomplished everything she wanted to. Once she landed, we made the "I certify that the following....." entry and topped it off with, "The aircraft is now being removed from phase 1 and being put back into phase 2".

Check with a DAR. You may need new Operating Limitations to remove the restriction.
 
Check with a DAR. You may need new Operating Limitations to remove the restriction.

Can you clarify? I'm not sure what restrictions are left. Aerobatic maneuvers were completed in phase 1, and we complied with the logbook entry requirement.

"If aerobatic maneuvers are intended to be performed during phase II, those maneuvers must be satisfactorily accomplished and recorded in the maintenance records."

"Upon completion of flight testing, the owner/operator must make the following or similar entry in the maintenance record "I certify that the following aerobatic maneuvers have been test flown , and that the aircraft is controllable throughout the maneuvers' normal range of speeds. The flight-tested aerobatic maneuvers and speeds are _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ , and _ _ _ _ _ at _ _ _ _ ."

This would be similar to going back to the DAR at the end of phase 1 because you made the entry that released the plane into phase 2. The limits are specifically written so that you can make the entry without bothering the DAR again as long as all the items were complied with.
 
If there were no aerobatic restrictions in ops, then no change is needed..... You are correct.
 
If aerobatic maneuvers have not been performed, would it be incorrect to put this in the POH?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0917.jpg
    IMG_0917.jpg
    189.4 KB · Views: 101
Adding aerobatic maneuvers after the completion of the initial phase 1 is a "major change" as you have surmised. Simply follow the instructions in your major change limitation regarding placing the aircraft back into a phase 1. Then test the maneuvers to be added, log them as per the limitation regarding aerobatics, and finally sign the aircraft back into phase 2 per the major change limitation.
 
Procedural question: My plane has been in phase 2 for 20 years. I want to put it in phase 1 for acro testing.

My testing will take place over several flights, and may take a month or more to complete it all. No biggie.

Here's the quandry: Is my plane in phase 1 only while doing the testing? Would I be prohibited from passenger carriage, distance limited, etc for the enitre time, or can I say "Saturday flight is phase 1 testing" and then "Sunday flight is phase 2 BBQ run"?
 
No......

Procedural question: My plane has been in phase 2 for 20 years. I want to put it in phase 1 for acro testing.
My testing will take place over several flights, and may take a month or more to complete it all. No biggie.
Here's the quandry: Is my plane in phase 1 only while doing the testing? Would I be prohibited from passenger carriage, distance limited, etc for the enitre time, or can I say "Saturday flight is phase 1 testing" and then "Sunday flight is phase 2 BBQ run"?

Your aircraft is in Phase I or Phase II. No intermediate swapping.

If returned to Phase I, the same restrictions apply as the initial Phase I.
 
Adding aerobatic maneuvers after the completion of the initial phase 1 is a "major change" as you have surmised. Simply follow the instructions in your major change limitation regarding placing the aircraft back into a phase 1. Then test the maneuvers to be added, log them as per the limitation regarding aerobatics, and finally sign the aircraft back into phase 2 per the major change limitation.

From my read there is NOTHING that says this is a major change. In fact, it is not a change at all, but just a flight test. A "Major Change" relates to a significant CHANGE in the arircraft itself and typically has a specified minimum test time in Phase I. Yes, you have to go back to Phase I for the aerobatic maneuvers testing, but once the testing is done and the log entry made with that appropriate data, all is good and back to Phase II. Maybe Mel can confirm that.
 
Last edited:
From my read there is NOTHING that says this is a major change. In fact, it is not a change at all, but just a flight test. A "Major Change" relates to a significant CHANGE in the arircraft itself and typically has a specified minimum test time in Phase I. Yes, you have to go back to Phase I for the aerobatic maneuvers testing, but once the testing is done and the log entry made with that appropriate data, all is good and back to Phase II. Maybe Mel can confirm that.

Check with your cognizant FSDO. Around these parts, adding aerobatic maneuvers is a "major change". Your mileage may vary.
 
Check with your cognizant FSDO. Around these parts, adding aerobatic maneuvers is a "major change". Your mileage may vary.

That is almost always a mixed bag with the FSDO guys. On my last AW inspection, the FSDO guy gave me a long lecture on the need for better maintenance logging on EAB. He told me to read part 43 and follow it, as he sees very poor maintenance documentation with no sign offs in EAB. I sent him an email later that day with an excerpt from the 2nd paragraph of part 43 that stated the entire section did not apply to EAB. He apologized and replied, "These regs are so confusing." I am not bashing the FSDO guys, as they seem like decent people, just an observation that they often don't seem to fully understand the regs as they are applied for EAB.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top