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Low budget panel option choices, your thoughts please

S

stringbender

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This is my RV6A
It has 1 comm, 1 older Garmin 496 GPS, and an Appearo ESG transponder which has a WAAS GPS that I can link to my 12.9'' IPAD
and see the traffic with Foreflight.

I fly in South Florida and its challenging to stay away from all the trainer aircraft, I call them mosquito's.

I'm retired, ex air carrier pilot, A&P, ex CFIIMEI. I've thought of renewing my CFI....but more importantly I do not want to fly IFR in weather in this airplane.
Its a handful just to switch tanks and make notes only to find your off 20 degrees and 200' on alt.
It would be nice to be able to file IFR but not necessary.
It also would be nice to be able to do basic acro without compromising the gyros.

If you had a Panel budget of $5K what would you buy and be specific with the name/model of equipment please.

If you had a panel budget of $7.5K, what would you buy?
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Regards
Doug
 
Just off the top of my head and considering your stated wants/needs, I think the only thing I’d do is install 2 Garmin G5’s along with the GMU-11 AHARS box. I think this will give you access to all the G5’s have to offer. I think a G5 with a backup battery can be purchased for about $2,000 each with the installation kit.

This setup would give you an electronic attitude indicator via a G5 in PFD mode as well as an electronic heading indicator via the 2nd G5. Get rid of your vacuum system along with the two vacuum gyros entirely. Save some weight and improve reliability.

You‘ve already got a good comm and a couple of decent sources of GPS/map/traffic display. If your existing autopilot ever fails, you can add about $1800 worth of Garmin servos (GSA-28) and you’ve got a modern autopilot controllable via the G5.

It’s pretty amazing what can be had for not a ton of money in modern times. 25 years ago, what I’ve described would’ve been 3 times the cost of a Honda Accord!

Order from Stein or Aerotronics as far as I’m concerned.
 
You already have a GRT EIS - You could add any GRT EFIS for under $5k, many of them well under, and a bit more to add their autopilot servos. If you want IFR, you could get a Garmin GPS 175 for $5k, a Sport EFIS for ~$2.5k, and although you'd proably end up a bit over budget, be very capable. Or get the EFIS now, and add the GPS when funds recover. That's what I did.
 
YellowJacket RV9 said:
You already have a GRT EIS - You could add any GRT EFIS for under $5k, many of them well under, and a bit more to add their autopilot servos
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Agree completely. We are basically doing the same type of panel you describe (in our Zenith 801 project), and like you, we already have a GRT EIS. We’ll be getting GRT’s cheapest/smallest EFIS box, which has the advantage of displaying info from the EIS in glorious color. We’re not doing an autopilot, but they’re hard to resist in the experimental world when you consider the cost/benefit equation.
 
YellowJacket RV9 said:
You already have a GRT EIS - You could add any GRT EFIS for under $5k, many of them well under, and a bit more to add their autopilot servos.
Click to expand...
Another ditto. I installed the Sport EX (advanced) in my RV-4 to compliment the EIS. Servo's for the autopilot are next, when the money tree next blooms. You can use the wifi for sharing ADS-B data with another device.
 
I used some of what came with my plane and then designed a new panel around purchased used equipment. Ended up with a really, really capable airplane with full autopilot, ads-b in and out and weather, blue tooth instrument panel to ipad in back seat, paperless charts, airport taxi diagrams, etc.
 

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AN23 said:
I used some of what came with my plane and then designed a new panel around purchased used equipment. Ended up with a really, really capable airplane with full autopilot, ads-b in and out and weather, blue tooth instrument panel to ipad in back seat, paperless charts, airport taxi diagrams, etc.
Click to expand...
I don’t recognize the center mounted screen. What is it?
 
Yes, 796 bluetoothed to a GDL-39 3D. Had a machinist buddy make a panel mount rack for the 796. It is easily removed for updating but locks in place in the panel. The 796 bluetooths to the iPad at rear seat.
 
YellowJacket RV9 said:
You already have a GRT EIS - You could add any GRT EFIS for under $5k, many of them well under, and a bit more to add their autopilot servos. If you want IFR, you could get a Garmin GPS 175 for $5k, a Sport EFIS for ~$2.5k, and although you'd proably end up a bit over budget, be very capable. Or get the EFIS now, and add the GPS when funds recover. That's what I did.
Click to expand...
Ditto to what "YellowJacket RV9" said above.

Then later I would use ~$2000 for the AP servos and replace the NavAid. Then you could fly approaches **IF** you chose to do so.
With appropriate equipment you could also feed traffic and weather data into the "EX" to have it right in front of you as well (with pop ups when it is within 2 miles.

The initial version of my RV6 panel was very similar to what you have now.
 
PART 1
Low Budget... Aviation? Ha ha. Kidding. So many choices. You have such a great core panel. I just went through this for a new panel. You can do a lot with $7500 if creative. To do IFR you need at min a GPS legal for IFR. That means TSO. A Garmin GPS175 (on sale at Spruce just north of $5000 with installation kit. To get the full use you will need a GARMIN G5 to fly LPV approach. The GPS175 ($5200) has a nice (albeit tiny map) touch display/map. The GPS can display CDI but not Vert Path. You will need something like the G5 ($1600+installation kit) can do PFD duties very nicely but not at same time as NAV data. You have to flop over to the G5's HSI display to see CDI and Vertical path (LPV). That means if you only have one G5 you need to keep the VAC pump and AI/DG.

Go with 2 G5's, one on PFD and one HSI you have backup and can ditch the VAC pump and VAC AI / DG. Oh you need back up power for the G5's. Internal battery is about $250 each (guessing). So GPS $5200 + G5 $2000 (backup battery installation kit?) will get you to IFR legal for your budget. Don't forget GARMIN Data updates about $170 a pop or $600-$700 a year subscription. Two G5's would be better but over $9K. However you can ditch the Vac pump and Vac AI and DG.

An old KX155 with VOR/LOC/GS no data base just free charts. Sad part going into small airports, most have RNAV GPS only approaches. Not complaining. RNAV LPV can get you to 200 HAT and 1 mile. If you went old school NAV only you need to mount VOR/LOC/GS antennas. Also many ILS no longer have LOM. So you need DME or IFR GPS.

Sounds like you want to do light IFR, IFR departure to VFR or IFR en-route climbs and let downs. In experimental they are not as strict as Certified planes on back up. But it would be wise if betting your life on electronics you have backup electrical power. Not hard to do but may need more work to incorporate. Some EFIS have their own internal battery back up. GPS only will be more versatile but cost more. It will be lighter and have less antennas, cables and weight.

USED GPS Navigators out there but not much less than the GPS175. The venerable Garmin GNS430W is a COM, NAV (VOR/LOC/GS) and IFR TSO GPS.... Used they are same or more than a new GPS175 (GPS only) cost. Also Garmin has announced end of life and support on the 430, and when parts run out that is it. The new GPS175 is touch screen and small. 430 is knob turning, button pushing, and menu diving. Garmin has variations of the GPS175 with a COM, or with Transponder.... You don't need a COM or Transponder. I do fly and teach as CFI in an airplane with one COM. My RV has one COM, ICOM 220A that can monitor active and standby at same time, good for ATIS while staying on ATC. I think IFR one com is OK. Handheld backup has limited practical use.

Your GARMIN 496 is not legal for IFR. Can you use it and do it with your iPad and EFB software? Yes not legal but OK in an emergency. No handheld is legal for IFR, never has been. WAAS? Sure but no RNAV LPV approach with the 496....

Forget coupling to that NAVAID, that is analog left right steer. IFR GPS puts put ARINC 429. You can get some adapter to drive the NAVAID with GPS NMEA-0183 Sentences serial output (I had one). It is VFR only. More on Autopilots below. Personally single pilot, single engine, IFR in IMC an autopilot is beyond nice, to the point of being necessary in my opinion. I did my fair share of hand flying IMC in small and large planes. Almost all EFIS now can drive servos. It is digital and better than analog autopilots.

Your analog gauges are OK. If doing IFR I would consider an electric Turn Coordinator (or small EFIS PFD that does standard rate and slip/skid) to comply with FAR's. I suppose the NAVAID can be considered filling the Turn Coordinator duties?

If you want to ditch the vacuum pump and the AI and DG as others said you could add many different EFIS PFD's that fit in 3-1/8" holes or start over with a large EFIS screen. The big bucks is a new G3X and Dynon SkyView EFIS. Down side they don't play nice with your GRT EIS4000. Cost will be way more than your budget.

Your comment about high traffic in Florida is noted. It would be nice to have ADS-B in. I see you have a iPad or Tab mount. If you are running a good EFB program and have portable ADS-B receiver. I use a iPad Mini 5, FltPlan Go and Stratux ADS-B. Works well for not only traffic, but also weather, NAV, Charts.... The most bang for bucks.


You have the VAC AI and DG... I assume you want to replace that. Can do that and save weight. If any of those Vac instruments fail it is VERY expensive to replace. That might be the time up upgrade to EFIS? Our club C182 Vac AI went TU, it was $900, not includng labor. Fortunately we have A&P's and AI in the club. $900 is the cost of some EFIS PFD's.
 
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PART 2
In no order:

GARMIN and budget don't go together but the G5's are nice. I fly and teach in two flying club planes with G5's. They can display as PFD and HSI (the G5 can be switched to either function). ) You can get just one G5. The basic price of G5's are about $1600 each. Plus there is an installation kit... Not the cheap way, but not bad. We get a great discount being experimental. Certified G5's are much more (same units). The Certified ones do not allow easy pilot adjustment of pitch reference in flight.

uAvionix AV-30 is nice, like the G5 but not quite. They are about $1900. I think comes with all the needed parts to install? Keep in mind all prices are for experimental. If you ever dream of having a panel mounted Garmin GPS I'd go G5, they play nice together. The AV-30 does not show NAV (or at least did not). Thee NAV display (course and glide) was not passible. G5 can do. If all you want is replacement of the basic function of the VAC AI and DG, no NAV, the AV-30 works.

The GRT Avionics is coming out in Spring with a new MINI ($1800?)... It is way MORE than just PFD. Take what I say with a grain of salt. I have a GRT Horz 10.1 which is the big brother. I assume they have very similar features from what I recall. It will have in addition to AI and DG, AS, Alt, Slip, Skid, heading, you have navigation data base (free NAV updates). It is shown on a MAP with fancy "synthetic vision". Your GRT 4000 EIS (Engine Info Sys) can send it's info to the MINI. It will be presented in a nice graphical numerical way, the EIS LCD display can not. It can be configured to show EIS data as inset or along bottom or side. The big gain is a MAP display. It can replace the Garmin 496 for all NAV needs (or you can keep the 496 as backup). It has it's own AHAR and optional internal back up battery. You will need to add a GPS source I think. GRT has their own RAIM Safe-Fly GPS. about $600. If you get a Garmin GPS175 you can use that Data for the GRT. You will need a remote Magnetometer ($250). You are going to put a dent $3000. You want ADS-B traffic shown on your PFD/EFIS/MAP? Yep it does that. You can buy their GRT Discovery ADS-B In receiver (about $500) and it will show traffic and weather. I could be getting confused with my GRT Horz 10.1, which has more features. If you already have a portable ADS-B receiver, Stratux or Garmin GDL, you can adapt them to feed traffic and weather to the EFIS. You want to add two axis AUTO Pilot? That is $1500 for both autopilot servos, light years beyond the NAVAID analog wing leveler. Using your existing COM and Transponder you are well under your budget. BUT not totally IFR legal for NAV. So $3000 you can get deluxe VFR... If you replace Safe-Fly GPS with Garmin GPS175 on, you are less than $8000 and IFR.... Add two auto pilot servos $9500. These numbers are ball park. If you want to upgrade to the GRT Horizon 10.1 it will add a couple of thousands, but get you more options and features, plus large display. This will require cutting a new panel. The MINI goes in a 3.125" hole. The 10,1 is about 10" wide and 7" height. The 10.1 has 12 serial inputs and two USB inputs, remote Blue Tooth App (which MINI may or may not have). The 10.1 can upload Charts and IAP as well as have IAP procedures (VFR use only) at an extra cost. Do your own research. If you are hot to trot airshow season brings sales.

AvMap Ultra ($1000 to $1200) is another EFIS/PDF with built in Nav (HSI course deviation) and fits in 3.125" hole. It is a nice instrument. This may be the most bang for bucks at about $1250, does all the PFD stuff. It has internal NAV and will allow you to fly to NAV waypoints and see course, distance, GPS info, It is NOT a MAP however. All self contained and think all the installation items (GPS antenna) comes with it. It is from Italy I believe and big in Europe. They have some LSA Euro approvals.

Dynon D3 ($900) is a portable non Pitot Static portable. I would not call it a prime instrument but VFR you don't need an AI or DG. It would be under $1000, install in an afternoon. You could take out the AI. plug the hose, and pop this in. You would not gain much function, except replace the AI. The airspeed and alt are ALL GPS... no Pitot Static input. However you would still have your original pitot static instruments.

UAvionix AV-20 ($900) is stripped down 2.25" basic AI. It would not be a primary instrument. It would be a good adjunct or backup. It does get Pitot and Static, so it knows TAS and Density Alt but is not made to display it with Attitude display. You have to scroll to new page. The airspeed (TAS ONLY) and Altitude (Density Only) it present as digital number, no vertical Speed Tape or Altitude Tape. I think this is made to be an adjunct, not a primary flight display or even backup.

If you want VFR, and low budget... I would not change a thing. You have a nice set up. The min upgrade is replace the AI with one of thee above, keep the DG and Vac pump. IFR that is a different animal. If using your iPad with EFB and portable ADS-B in can assist your eyeballs.

I fly and teach in a C182, flying club. It has One G5 and GTN750, but still retains the Vac AI. The DG is an electric HSI. The plane owner has a second G5 but has not installed it yet. The VAC pump and Vac AI will than go away. It is IFR approved plane. It is a mix of old and new. The GTN750 is scary capable. It does everything but flight instruments. Expensive, at least $17000 plus another guessing $5000 add on boxes to support it. Nice.

Another club plane I fly and teach in, is a C152 with two G5's and GNS430W (IFR GPS/NAV/COM). The C152 lost the Vac pump and the Vac AI and DG, but retains the Turn Cord, AS, Alt, VSI, as back up. The mighty C152 is IFR certified and I give IFR training in it. Fly one speed 90kts, cruise, hold, approach. Ha ha.

Other option is blow the budget and get a turn key Garmin G3X IFR panel, or Dynon Skyview from the many shops that will do turn key. I don't know but guessing $30K may be min cost....
 
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Pardon the poor paint shop attempt here... But re-arrange the steam gauges for an airspeed/altitude backup, add a pair of G5s, and panel dock an Aera 760 (with GDL50 ADSB receiver), or get a iPad panel dock with a cooling fan to have your current setup. Gives everything you need right in front of you without looking far over to scan (and ditch the vacuum).

Future - can add a GPS 175 + GAD29 for GPS IFR approaches and a GMC507/GSA28 servos for a fully coupled autopilot.


low cost panel.png
 
gmcjetpilot said:
You have to flop over to the G5's HSI display to see CDI and Vertical path (LPV).
Click to expand...
I don’t think this is right - the G5’s PFD page (the attitude indicator, basically) shows you little diamonds for horizontal and vertical guidance.
 
Dugaru said:
I don’t think this is right - the G5’s PFD page (the attitude indicator, basically) shows you little diamonds for horizontal and vertical guidance.
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Thank you. OK I know why I said that, but it could just be the planes I fly with G5's and the way they were wired? One plane has two G5's, let's call them #1 and #2. #1 is parked on PFD and #2 is HSI getting NAV from a GNS430W. I recall I can not get NAV (CDI and LPV path) on #2 HSI only. It can be the way it is wired or user error.

Example two (and could be wrong) a second plane has one (1) G5 and all NAV data from the GTN750 goes to that G5. It is parked on HSI mode and also drives an older S-TEC autopilot. The autopilot does not work when the G5 is switched to PFD screen, and not seeing CDI or Vert Path. Again I have to test this more carefully. I have to test this all out, but thank you. I hope I am wrong. I don't know how Garmin G5 CAB-bus works or if the installation of the G5's in these two planes is such that NAV data function on PFD is inhibited? I
 
To 'be able to file IFR' you can't get any more budget than a compact VOR/ILS/LOC box like a VAL INS429

1709138124222.png
Seem to be no longer available new, but you can pickup on the internet. One for sale now for $500.
The radio and CDI in one box.
And it can provide CDI from an external source should you get a certified GPS at some point.

No need for data subscription.

Question - does your autopilot have altitude hold or only roll?
 
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Another vote to add a GRT EFIS and couple it to the GRT EIS you already have. You will most likely need the magnetometer also.

GRT autopilot servos will work directly from the EFIS.

Count your remaining pennies and choose an IFR navigator you can afford and tolerate
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Thank you. OK I know why I said that, but it could just be the planes I fly with G5's and the way they were wired? One plane has two G5's, let's call them #1 and #2. #1 is parked on PFD and #2 is HSI getting NAV from a GNS430W. I recall I can not get NAV (CDI and LPV path) on #2 HSI only. It can be the way it is wired or user error.

Example two (and could be wrong) a second plane has one (1) G5 and all NAV data from the GTN750 goes to that G5. It is parked on HSI mode and also drives an older S-TEC autopilot. The autopilot does not work when the G5 is switched to PFD screen, and not seeing CDI or Vert Path. Again I have to test this more carefully. I have to test this all out, but thank you. I hope I am wrong. I don't know how Garmin G5 CAB-bus works or if the installation of the G5's in these two planes is such that NAV data function on PFD is inhibited? I
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I can't be of much help, as I don't know how these things get wired, or really anything about how they are set up in certified airplanes. But I do know that in my -9A with a 430W, the G5 can show CDI and vertical on the PFD page or the HSI page, and it also drives the autopilot regardless of which page it's on (with the assistance of my 307 box).
 
Mike S said:
Another vote to add a GRT EFIS and couple it to the GRT EIS you already have. You will most likely need the magnetometer also.

GRT autopilot servos will work directly from the EFIS.

Count your remaining pennies and choose an IFR navigator you can afford and tolerate
Click to expand...

stringbender said:
This is my RV6A
It has 1 comm, 1 older Garmin 496 GPS, and an Appearo ESG transponder which has a WAAS GPS that I can link to my 12.9'' IPAD
and see the traffic with Foreflight.

I fly in South Florida and its challenging to stay away from all the trainer aircraft, I call them mosquito's.

I'm retired, ex air carrier pilot, A&P, ex CFIIMEI. I've thought of renewing my CFI....but more importantly I do not want to fly IFR in weather in this airplane.
Its a handful just to switch tanks and make notes only to find your off 20 degrees and 200' on alt.
It would be nice to be able to file IFR but not necessary.
It also would be nice to be able to do basic acro without compromising the gyros.

If you had a Panel budget of $5K what would you buy and be specific with the name/model of equipment please.

If you had a panel budget of $7.5K, what would you buy?
View attachment 56798
Regards
Doug
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Thank you everyone for replying to my question here at VAF.........
I am taking my time to digest everything.
I like that GRT doesn't charge you for updating the database and keep it current. Nice.
One point I need to understand is the limitations of my transponder, its a Stratus ESG, and with its WAAS it can show me ADSB IN on my IPAD...this I think is a life saving info, we have so many flight trainers in our local sky's, airports here in S. FLA.
But the Stratus will not link to the GRT....so I haven't heard anyone talk about removing it and replacing with something else, and try to sell it to recoup some $.....I do want a navigator, I would prefer to be able to file IFR at times but I do not plan on flying low approaches in weather. In regards to navigators would the wise money be spent on updated models. Your thoughts please, most helpful.....
Doug
 
_CHEAP IFR.... I forgot the VAL, tiny stand alone VAL 400 (INS 429) VOR/LOC/GS(ILS)/MARKER LTS, indicator that all fits in 3.125" hole.
www.valavionics.com

ILS 400 TSO

Description: Val Avionics FIRST all in one flight system. The ILS 400 was the first completely self contained digital landing system on the market. It included both a Localizer and Glide Slope all...
www.valavionics.com

As mentioned you can get a VOR/LOC/GS receiver above, using a KX155, this VAL 400 (INS 429 previous model) is tiny, all in one 3.125" hole. The nice part with terrestrial NAV, NO EXPENSIVE GPS DATABASE UPDATES you can only get from one source. Keep in mind the DATA is free to the manufacture paid for by us, tax payers. Humm nuff said. OK

The other option is swap out your radio for a (Apollo) Garmin SL30 (or add it to existing COM for two coms) . With SL30 you get a slim rack mounted COM and LOC/VOR/GS/DME, It is more compact and capable than the KX155 I suggested above. You may be limited to what airports you can use. All major airline airports have CAT 1 as do most regional airports as well. However the vast majority of airports, that once had NDB, VOR, LOC and even some ILS approaches are now RNAV only or require DME or GPS to identify fixes on the approach, like the LOM. Good news Airports with no approach of any kind in the past have RNAV. BTW the SL30 I don't think is made any longer? A used one is $3000. Still cheaper than a new TSO IFR GPS Navigator with recurrent database update fees.

There are limits you know. However to get into IFR minutia and practical limits to IFR with no GPS for these who don't know... read on. You can use your VFR GPS for reference ONLY of course. However for en-route or IAP navigation on an IFR flight plane using a handheld GPS is not legal, and it could be very unsafe as well.

Installation of the VOR/LOC/GS requires at least one VOR antenna (with splitter to GS). DME is another Transponder sized antenna. Marker lights another antenna but I don't think Markers have much use anymore. I could be wrong. You need POSITIVE ID of the FAF and any step downs on the final approach segment. In the past for an ILS for example, NDB and/or "Marker Beacon light" was FAF and on Glide Slope. Most NDB's and Markers or LOM (Locator Outer Marker) are gone. Now most Localizer and ILS approaches require DME, crossing VOR radials OR GPS fix (substitute for DME) or ATC assistance. Again using a GPS as DME is only OK for TSO'ed GPS with current data of IAP. Again portable GPS no good for this to be legal or wise. So even when doing an ILS your bring up the ILS "in the box" but navigate by ground station (VOR/LOC/GS). The GPS will sequence and give you the missed. The NO GPS IFR plane is the least expensive but also very limited way to fly IFR safely /legally. A RNAV LPV approach is a thing of beauty BTW. As I said your iPad is not legal to navigate by but a great reference.

You don't NEED an IFR approved TSO'ed GPS Navigator but it makes life simple and gives you access to way more airports than just VOR approach, LOC approach or ILS. Technically you can fly in the IFR system without an IFR TSO'ed GPS "Navigator", but GPS is now the de facto NAV. This will only increase as more ground based NAV's go away. It is planned. Cost too much to maintain them. Maintaining VOR's is expensive and they decommissioned at least two I know of in this region. Now there are big LOW ALT gaps with no VOR or Victor airways. There is either nothing (GPS direct above MSA) or replaced by "T" airways, i.e., GPS defined airway. Flying with a VOR only may require ATC vectors or not being able to accept a clearance to an AREA NAV waypoint your VOR can't get you to.

Point BEING you can can get away with bare bones min equip if it "meets the navigation equip required for the flight". It does not give you options however in present day GPS world. Now there are not as many VOR on field approaches or LOC approaches that do not require DME or TSO'ed GPS navigator. NDB? Non existent in lower 48. Most non precision and even precision approaches for all practical purposes NEED a TSO'ed GPS or DME. There are exceptions...... IFR TRIVA....

MON airports. Min Operational Navigation Airports. You will see this on Low Alt Charts with reverse letter MON. It is a relatively recent addition to IFR charts, indicating the airport offers an approach a pilot could complete without assistance from ATC, GPS, or DME systems.

The local MON airport in my area has LOC/ILS IAP with step downs defined crossing radials (although GPS or DME could be used but required). This means two NAV radios? No you can switch back and forth. I did it in my Tomahawk 30 yrs ago, with one NAV/COM and it was a KX170B, no flip flop, clunk clunk.

MON Airports on Low Alt chart are not too common in my area. So GPS is the way to go in my opinion, and update database ala carte as required, unless the VOR/LOC/GS works for you as entrée to being IFR legal and safe, flight does not require more equip. You can always supplement with your iPad and EFB software FOR REF ONLY...
 
A Garmin GNX 375 would give you the IFR navigator and a new ADSB In/Out transponder. It would work with the Aera 760 or an iPad running Garmin Pilot or Foreflight for the traffic/WX.
 
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You state that you have ADSB In on your iPad from your Stratus ESG. According to the Stratus website this means you must have a Stratus 3i receiver which provides ADSB In using WiFi. GRT EFIS use serial interfaces. You can purchase a WiFi to serial (RS232) converter for around $25. That would get ADSB In on a GRT screen, where it works very nicely. I've been flying with GRT for nearly 20 years and am very happy with it. But, the documentation isn't the best so some folks have difficulty getting everything set and working. You are in FL not too far from Jessie Saint Aviation who is pretty experienced.

Jim Butcher
 
stringbender said:
But the Stratus will not link to the GRT....so I haven't heard anyone talk about removing it and replacing with something else, and try to sell it to recoup some $.....I do want a navigator, I would prefer to be able to file IFR at times but I do not plan on flying low approaches in weather. In regards to navigators would the wise money be spent on updated models. Your thoughts please, most helpful.....
Doug
Click to expand...

Not correct but you are not totally wrong.... I did it. It works great. There is a document on GRT web site under misc. https://grtavionics.com/media/StratuxSupplement.pdf
There is also a download of a patch or image you load onto the Stratux via WiFi from your iPad or Tablet. I used the TRENDnet TU-S9 USB to Serial adapter. That is the one GRT recommends. You can get adapter from GRT or other retailers, $15-$30.

Yes it can be done and yes it is a tiny pain in the empennage to get at the one remaining USB port on the raspberry pie for SERIAL OUT data to your EFIS. However worth it for ADS-B TIS (both 978 MHz or 1090 MHz) and WX (1090 Mhz). I did it without major moving of stuff (kind of).

First what I did NOT do but apparently works and likely what you are referring to. You replace the internal USB GPS card (inside the case) and use a VK162 USB GPS, a remote USB GPS on the end of a USB cable. Looks like a corded computer mouse. This replaces the wide GPS card. The USB plug for the VK162 does not block the adjacent USB port. However you need to route the cable out of the case. This will allow free access to the 4th USB port to plug in a USB to serial adapter directly, There are two recommended but GRT and I recommend the one below. However you do have to route the cables for the GPS and USB/Serial adapter out of the case which takes some case modification (not much). I did NOT do this...

I kept the GPS card, Stratux GPYes 2.0 u-blox 8 USB GPS Unit with external antenna jack (in addition to on board antenna. The VK172 GPS card is narrow but not as good. It has a smaller antenna and no external jack, but makes space to access USB port 4. I did not want to compromise strong GPS performance. There or two versions of the Stratux GPYes 2.0 u-blox 8 USB GPS on with external antenna jack and on without. I have external antenna option.

The problem is the USB/GPS card blocks that 4th USB slightly, and typical USB cables have very chunky and long molding at the connector. There are some USB cables that have slim trim connectors but still would require whittling (grinding) on the connector. I went a different way. Although there are some pretty trim USB cables (see below) I have yet to try I made my own cable.

There are 4 USB's on the Raspberry Pi*, 3 are used, two for SDR (software defined radios) and one for GPS. You need to add USB to Serial adapter to 4th and last open USB port. There are several work arounds. My solution was two fold:

One made an ever so slight trim on the edge of the internal USB GPS card. It is a no brainer and almost not needed with part two below.

Two - I bought Male USB Type A connector made for circuit board I believe. The connector is short and it has no plastic molding (see picture / link below). I soldered onto the stub USB (type A) male connector cable extension with female USB A connector. It was easy to solder and heat shrink made it tidy. I made a slight mouse hole on the upper case cover to route the USB cable (female) out of case. The TU-S9 USB to serial adapter USB plugs nicely into my cable extension. In case GPS still installed. It works. My set up can be undone and put the Stratux back into portable config. It is still portable just with the cable hanging out of it, but I can remove cable and go back to original. The mouse hole in case top does not affect overall appearance. I can buy a new case cover, the whole case for $17. It does take some assembly and disassembly to get at it.. but doable.

If you DO NOT have Stratux already consider a different route. However in my case I already had a Stratux made by Crew Dog. They are now $400. I got mine pre "panorama" at almost half that. I was going to make my own, but by the time I bought all the parts it was going to be a good chunk of just buying the CrewDog turn key. The CrewDog, came with battery, accessories. So I had it, and I am using it. I got a 12v to 5v USB adapter to power the Statux.

If you do NOT have a Stratux already like I did consider the GRT Avionics ADS-B "Discovery" receiver. It is about $500, but made for permanent installation. If you have Garmin or Dynon you may want to check, they are picky and proprietary about interfaces.

There are transponders with ADS-B Out and IN already. They tend to be expensive but a clean all in one solution.

The Stratux has WIFI and will send data to your iPad or Tablet. I did my set up for under $300. Also you can tell the Stratux to ignore or suppress your plane. The GRT has sttings to do that as well.

This is the magic connector (magic as in solved the space issue)
USB 2.0 Type A Male Socket Connector Repair Adapter Board Mount. (digikey, amazon, ali express, ebay)
Amazon is 100 for $10, You can buy smaller quantities (10 for $6). This is just an example, but if you have Prime it may be OK.
Ali Express 10 for $1 free shipping. DigiKey is good if you already have an order with them.
48037-0001.jpg


You still have to fabricate a female USB extension cable. I cut the chunky male end off a cable of a high quality male to female extension cable, soldered on my magic USB stubby connecter. It, hurt a little but worked out great.

The other idea, and I bought it on Ali Express, still waiting to get it, is this low profile right angle extension. This guy will require surgery on case but again can be undone, albeit with a bigger MOD to case than above cable I already made. This was a backup plan. I likely will not incorporate, since my cable worked out well. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
5cm-300cm USB 2.0 A Plug to Male&Male/Female 90 Angled Extension Cable USB 2.0 Male to Female Right/Left/Down/Up Black Cable
photos.app.goo.gl

New item by gmcjetpilot

photos.app.goo.gl photos.app.goo.gl

* FYI for those who did not know... Raspberry Pi is not only a delicious dessert but a general use Micro processor and operating system that reads program off a SD card. It can do whatever you want. Hobbyist do some neat things with them. I am not one of those enthusiast but it is cool. One group is Stratux, which is an OPEN SOURCE project that turns the Pi into a ADS-B receiver with plug in USB modules, radio receivers and GPS. It has a huge user group support. You can make your own, buy parts. The software is free. The program is stable and the "official release" is vetted. Updates are not as often as it is a mature platform. However late last year they did update it. It is not a must have update but nic to have. The Raspberry Pi comes in different flavors, pun intended, but the one I have, has a built in AHARS (yes you can get attitude, pitch and roll) and WiFi. WIFI is the the main way you talk to and get info from the Pi. However for EFIS that needs a RS232 input to get ADS-B data, you have to fit a USB to RS232 adapter. Now you have a nice ADS-B receiver for traffic and weather for both your panel mounted EFIS and your tablet via WiFi... There are many ways to get ADS-B in, some expensive. The Stratux is low cost but requires some work. . I have $250 to $300 in my ADS-B in setup all up. It works well. No compromise in function or quality and quantity of data. It runs at 115200 baud btw. ADS-B in is ADS-B in. However note, if you are NOT sending OUT ADS-B you may NOT always see other ADS-B traffic. It is analogous to your transponder does not reply unless radar interrogates it. If the ADS-B out does not get ping from ground tower or another plane it may be silent. ADS-B traffic is not a substitute for looking out the canopy.
 
Last edited:
I think the OP said he has a Stratus ESG and it provides ADSB In to his iPad via WiFi. Note that Stratus is not the same as Stratux which uses a Raspberry PI. I too use a Stratux to feed my GRT and later versions of Stratux software support a serial interface which is superior to the patch on the GRT website. There are built Stratux available for around $350, which is less than the GRT Discovery, but not as easy to setup.

Jim Butcher
 
gmcjetpilot said:
_CHEAP IFR.... I forgot the VAL, tiny stand alone VAL 400 (INS 429) VOR/LOC/GS(ILS)/MARKER LTS, indicator that all fits in 3.125" hole.
www.valavionics.com

ILS 400 TSO

Description: Val Avionics FIRST all in one flight system. The ILS 400 was the first completely self contained digital landing system on the market. It included both a Localizer and Glide Slope all...
www.valavionics.com

As mentioned you can get a VOR/LOC/GS receiver above, using a KX155, this VAL 400 (INS 429 previous model) is tiny, all in one 3.125" hole. The nice part with terrestrial NAV, NO EXPENSIVE GPS DATABASE UPDATES you can only get from one source. Keep in mind the DATA is free to the manufacture paid for by us, tax payers. Humm nuff said. OK

The other option is swap out your radio for a (Apollo) Garmin SL30 (or add it to existing COM for two coms) . With SL30 you get a slim rack mounted COM and LOC/VOR/GS/DME, It is more compact and capable than the KX155 I suggested above. You may be limited to what airports you can use. All major airline airports have CAT 1 as do most regional airports as well. However the vast majority of airports, that once had NDB, VOR, LOC and even some ILS approaches are now RNAV only or require DME or GPS to identify fixes on the approach, like the LOM. Good news Airports with no approach of any kind in the past have RNAV. BTW the SL30 I don't think is made any longer? A used one is $3000. Still cheaper than a new TSO IFR GPS Navigator with recurrent database update fees.

There are limits you know. However to get into IFR minutia and practical limits to IFR with no GPS for these who don't know... read on. You can use your VFR GPS for reference ONLY of course. However for en-route or IAP navigation on an IFR flight plane using a handheld GPS is not legal, and it could be very unsafe as well.

Installation of the VOR/LOC/GS requires at least one VOR antenna (with splitter to GS). DME is another Transponder sized antenna. Marker lights another antenna but I don't think Markers have much use anymore. I could be wrong. You need POSITIVE ID of the FAF and any step downs on the final approach segment. In the past for an ILS for example, NDB and/or "Marker Beacon light" was FAF and on Glide Slope. Most NDB's and Markers or LOM (Locator Outer Marker) are gone. Now most Localizer and ILS approaches require DME, crossing VOR radials OR GPS fix (substitute for DME) or ATC assistance. Again using a GPS as DME is only OK for TSO'ed GPS with current data of IAP. Again portable GPS no good for this to be legal or wise. So even when doing an ILS your bring up the ILS "in the box" but navigate by ground station (VOR/LOC/GS). The GPS will sequence and give you the missed. The NO GPS IFR plane is the least expensive but also very limited way to fly IFR safely /legally. A RNAV LPV approach is a thing of beauty BTW. As I said your iPad is not legal to navigate by but a great reference.

You don't NEED an IFR approved TSO'ed GPS Navigator but it makes life simple and gives you access to way more airports than just VOR approach, LOC approach or ILS. Technically you can fly in the IFR system without an IFR TSO'ed GPS "Navigator", but GPS is now the de facto NAV. This will only increase as more ground based NAV's go away. It is planned. Cost too much to maintain them. Maintaining VOR's is expensive and they decommissioned at least two I know of in this region. Now there are big LOW ALT gaps with no VOR or Victor airways. There is either nothing (GPS direct above MSA) or replaced by "T" airways, i.e., GPS defined airway. Flying with a VOR only may require ATC vectors or not being able to accept a clearance to an AREA NAV waypoint your VOR can't get you to.

Point BEING you can can get away with bare bones min equip if it "meets the navigation equip required for the flight". It does not give you options however in present day GPS world. Now there are not as many VOR on field approaches or LOC approaches that do not require DME or TSO'ed GPS navigator. NDB? Non existent in lower 48. Most non precision and even precision approaches for all practical purposes NEED a TSO'ed GPS or DME. There are exceptions...... IFR TRIVA....

MON airports. Min Operational Navigation Airports. You will see this on Low Alt Charts with reverse letter MON. It is a relatively recent addition to IFR charts, indicating the airport offers an approach a pilot could complete without assistance from ATC, GPS, or DME systems.

The local MON airport in my area has LOC/ILS IAP with step downs defined crossing radials (although GPS or DME could be used but required). This means two NAV radios? No you can switch back and forth. I did it in my Tomahawk 30 yrs ago, with one NAV/COM and it was a KX170B, no flip flop, clunk clunk.

MON Airports on Low Alt chart are not too common in my area. So GPS is the way to go in my opinion, and update database ala carte as required, unless the VOR/LOC/GS works for you as entrée to being IFR legal and safe, flight does not require more equip. You can always supplement with your iPad and EFB software FOR REF ONLY...
Click to expand...
A clarification, and a comment
1. The SL30, IMHO the best nav com ever built, can display DME data from some remote DMEs but does not itself have a DME inside. And yes, it has been orphaned, not built in quite some time, some parts hard to come by.
2. The SL30 is perfect for an ILS with a VOR cross fix for the FAF, because it can output 2 nav signals simultaneously (both active and standby). On my GRT HSI display, the main CDI is set to show the Localizer, while a RMI needle shows the cross fix bearing.
 
h&jeuropa said:
I think the OP said he has a Stratus ESG and it provides ADSB In to his iPad via WiFi. Note that Stratus is not the same as Stratux which uses a Raspberry PI. I too use a Stratux to feed my GRT and later versions of Stratux software support a serial interface which is superior to the patch on the GRT website. There are built Stratux available for around $350, which is less than the GRT Discovery, but not as easy to setup.

Jim Butcher
Click to expand...
For ADSB-in I use a $500 remote mounted SkyRadar. USB to the GRT Hx, wifi to my iPad (running WingX).
 
iwannarv said:
Pardon the poor paint shop attempt here... But re-arrange the steam gauges for an airspeed/altitude backup, add a pair of G5s, and panel dock an Aera 760 (with GDL50 ADSB receiver), or get a iPad panel dock with a cooling fan to have your current setup. Gives everything you need right in front of you without looking far over to scan (and ditch the vacuum).

Future - can add a GPS 175 + GAD29 for GPS IFR approaches and a GMC507/GSA28 servos for a fully coupled autopilot.


View attachment 57123
Click to expand...
The stratus esg Wi-Fi’s to the ForeFlight to provide adsb in.
 
blaplante said:
To 'be able to file IFR' you can't get any more budget than a compact VOR/ILS/LOC box like a VAL INS429

View attachment 57126
Seem to be no longer available new, but you can pickup on the internet. One for sale now for $500.
The radio and CDI in one box.
And it can provide CDI from an external source should you get a certified GPS at some point.

No need for data subscription.

Question - does your autopilot have altitude hold or only roll?
Click to expand...
My auto pilot is unusable.
it is outdated and had wiring problems (wires shorted together found on prebuyers inspection, removed servo).
I do want to have an operable A/P.
the above unit is interesting!
 
Dugaru said:
Unfortunately I can't be of much help, as I don't know how these things get wired, or really anything about how they are set up in certified airplanes. But I do know that in my -9A with a 430W, the G5 can show CDI and vertical on the PFD page or the HSI page, and it also drives the autopilot regardless of which page it's on (with the assistance of my 307 box).
Click to expand...
What is a 307 box?
 
h&jeuropa said:
You state that you have ADSB In on your iPad from your Stratus ESG. According to the Stratus website this means you must have a Stratus 3i receiver which provides ADSB In using WiFi. GRT EFIS use serial interfaces. You can purchase a WiFi to serial (RS232) converter for around $25. That would get ADSB In on a GRT screen, where it works very nicely. I've been flying with GRT for nearly 20 years and am very happy with it. But, the documentation isn't the best so some folks have difficulty getting everything set and working. You are in FL not too far from Jessie Saint Aviation who is pretty experienced.

Jim Butcher, I didn’t know Jessie worked with GRT.
Click to expand...
 
gmcjetpilot said:
_CHEAP IFR.... I forgot the VAL, tiny stand alone VAL 400 (INS 429) VOR/LOC/GS(ILS)/MARKER LTS, indicator that all fits in 3.125" hole.
www.valavionics.com

ILS 400 TSO

Description: Val Avionics FIRST all in one flight system. The ILS 400 was the first completely self contained digital landing system on the market. It included both a Localizer and Glide Slope all...
www.valavionics.com

As mentioned you can get a VOR/LOC/GS receiver above, using a KX155, this VAL 400 (INS 429 previous model) is tiny, all in one 3.125" hole. The nice part with terrestrial NAV, NO EXPENSIVE GPS DATABASE UPDATES you can only get from one source. Keep in mind the DATA is free to the manufacture paid for by us, tax payers. Humm nuff said. OK

The other option is swap out your radio for a (Apollo) Garmin SL30 (or add it to existing COM for two coms) . With SL30 you get a slim rack mounted COM and LOC/VOR/GS/DME, It is more compact and capable than the KX155 I suggested above. You may be limited to what airports you can use. All major airline airports have CAT 1 as do most regional airports as well. However the vast majority of airports, that once had NDB, VOR, LOC and even some ILS approaches are now RNAV only or require DME or GPS to identify fixes on the approach, like the LOM. Good news Airports with no approach of any kind in the past have RNAV. BTW the SL30 I don't think is made any longer? A used one is $3000. Still cheaper than a new TSO IFR GPS Navigator with recurrent database update fees.

There are limits you know. However to get into IFR minutia and practical limits to IFR with no GPS for these who don't know... read on. You can use your VFR GPS for reference ONLY of course. However for en-route or IAP navigation on an IFR flight plane using a handheld GPS is not legal, and it could be very unsafe as well.

Installation of the VOR/LOC/GS requires at least one VOR antenna (with splitter to GS). DME is another Transponder sized antenna. Marker lights another antenna but I don't think Markers have much use anymore. I could be wrong. You need POSITIVE ID of the FAF and any step downs on the final approach segment. In the past for an ILS for example, NDB and/or "Marker Beacon light" was FAF and on Glide Slope. Most NDB's and Markers or LOM (Locator Outer Marker) are gone. Now most Localizer and ILS approaches require DME, crossing VOR radials OR GPS fix (substitute for DME) or ATC assistance. Again using a GPS as DME is only OK for TSO'ed GPS with current data of IAP. Again portable GPS no good for this to be legal or wise. So even when doing an ILS your bring up the ILS "in the box" but navigate by ground station (VOR/LOC/GS). The GPS will sequence and give you the missed. The NO GPS IFR plane is the least expensive but also very limited way to fly IFR safely /legally. A RNAV LPV approach is a thing of beauty BTW. As I said your iPad is not legal to navigate by but a great reference.

You don't NEED an IFR approved TSO'ed GPS Navigator but it makes life simple and gives you access to way more airports than just VOR approach, LOC approach or ILS. Technically you can fly in the IFR system without an IFR TSO'ed GPS "Navigator", but GPS is now the de facto NAV. This will only increase as more ground based NAV's go away. It is planned. Cost too much to maintain them. Maintaining VOR's is expensive and they decommissioned at least two I know of in this region. Now there are big LOW ALT gaps with no VOR or Victor airways. There is either nothing (GPS direct above MSA) or replaced by "T" airways, i.e., GPS defined airway. Flying with a VOR only may require ATC vectors or not being able to accept a clearance to an AREA NAV waypoint your VOR can't get you to.

Point BEING you can can get away with bare bones min equip if it "meets the navigation equip required for the flight". It does not give you options however in present day GPS world. Now there are not as many VOR on field approaches or LOC approaches that do not require DME or TSO'ed GPS navigator. NDB? Non existent in lower 48. Most non precision and even precision approaches for all practical purposes NEED a TSO'ed GPS or DME. There are exceptions...... IFR TRIVA....

MON airports. Min Operational Navigation Airports. You will see this on Low Alt Charts with reverse letter MON. It is a relatively recent addition to IFR charts, indicating the airport offers an approach a pilot could complete without assistance from ATC, GPS, or DME systems.

The local MON airport in my area has LOC/ILS IAP with step downs defined crossing radials (although GPS or DME could be used but required). This means two NAV radios? No you can switch back and forth. I did it in my Tomahawk 30 yrs ago, with one NAV/COM and it was a KX170B, no flip flop, clunk clunk.

MON Airports on Low Alt chart are not too common in my area. So GPS is the way to go in my opinion, and update database ala carte as required, unless the VOR/LOC/GS works for you as entrée to being IFR legal and safe, flight does not require more equip. You can always supplement with your iPad and EFB software FOR REF ONLY...
Click to expand...
I guess this opens up the choices up filing IFR all the boxes that exist “what category aircraft do you have”. That’s a MINEFIELD of misunderstanding for me, I hate to admit.
‘Your discussion is very thought provoking, thanks for contributing!
Doug
 
stringbender said:
My auto pilot is unusable.
it is outdated and had wiring problems (wires shorted together found on prebuyers inspection, removed servo).
I do want to have an operable A/P.
the above unit is interesting!
Click to expand...

Funny, just pulled one of these old AP heads out of a client's RV-6. Same deal, servo had been removed.
We put in a TruTrak as he has no PFD (just gyros like you). The TruTrak units are available with a round head, so it could be a panel drop-in.
The Vizion and Digiflight are newer units.
Contact me if you want more info on these, I've now installed 2, and figured out some hints and kinks.

NOTE though - when you pull out the old AP head, you just lost your slip/skid ball and the turn indicator.
[For those unfamiliar with his AP head, the red stripe has a moving LED indicator that shows the 'needle'.
If you put in a TruTrak head, you no longer have a slip/skid ball or any alternate Turn Coordinator for IFR backup.
 
Last time I checked there was no way to get access to the Stratus 1090ESG GPS signal (other than with your eyeballs on the 1090ESG display).

Has this changed?
 
blaplante said:
Funny, just pulled one of these old AP heads out of a client's RV-6. Same deal, servo had been removed.
We put in a TruTrak as he has no PFD (just gyros like you). The TruTrak units are available with a round head, so it could be a panel drop-in.
The Vizion and Digiflight are newer units.
Contact me if you want more info on these, I've now installed 2, and figured out some hints and kinks.

NOTE though - when you pull out the old AP head, you just lost your slip/skid ball and the turn indicator.
[For those unfamiliar with his AP head, the red stripe has a moving LED indicator that shows the 'needle'.
If you put in a TruTrak head, you no longer have a slip/skid ball or any alternate Turn Coordinator for IFR backup.
Click to expand...
Good point about the slip/skid indicator....I repaired the wires that were shorted (the three wires out of the servo) but have not gotten to the point of wanting to try to use. These RV's imo need an autopilot to reduce workload on maintaining fuel/log/navigation on long flights.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Not correct but you are not totally wrong.... I did it. It works great. There is a document on GRT web site under misc. https://grtavionics.com/media/StratuxSupplement.pdf
There is also a download of a patch or image you load onto the Stratux via WiFi from your iPad or Tablet. I used the TRENDnet TU-S9 USB to Serial adapter. That is the one GRT recommends. You can get adapter from GRT or other retailers, $15-$30.

Yes it can be done and yes it is a tiny pain in the empennage to get at the one remaining USB port on the raspberry pie for SERIAL OUT data to your EFIS. However worth it for ADS-B TIS (both 978 MHz or 1090 MHz) and WX (1090 Mhz). I did it without major moving of stuff (kind of).

First what I did NOT do but apparently works and likely what you are referring to. You replace the internal USB GPS card (inside the case) and use a VK162 USB GPS, a remote USB GPS on the end of a USB cable. Looks like a corded computer mouse. This replaces the wide GPS card. The USB plug for the VK162 does not block the adjacent USB port. However you need to route the cable out of the case. This will allow free access to the 4th USB port to plug in a USB to serial adapter directly, There are two recommended but GRT and I recommend the one below. However you do have to route the cables for the GPS and USB/Serial adapter out of the case which takes some case modification (not much). I did NOT do this...

I kept the GPS card, Stratux GPYes 2.0 u-blox 8 USB GPS Unit with external antenna jack (in addition to on board antenna. The VK172 GPS card is narrow but not as good. It has a smaller antenna and no external jack, but makes space to access USB port 4. I did not want to compromise strong GPS performance. There or two versions of the Stratux GPYes 2.0 u-blox 8 USB GPS on with external antenna jack and on without. I have external antenna option.

The problem is the USB/GPS card blocks that 4th USB slightly, and typical USB cables have very chunky and long molding at the connector. There are some USB cables that have slim trim connectors but still would require whittling (grinding) on the connector. I went a different way. Although there are some pretty trim USB cables (see below) I have yet to try I made my own cable.

There are 4 USB's on the Raspberry Pi*, 3 are used, two for SDR (software defined radios) and one for GPS. You need to add USB to Serial adapter to 4th and last open USB port. There are several work arounds. My solution was two fold:

One made an ever so slight trim on the edge of the internal USB GPS card. It is a no brainer and almost not needed with part two below.

Two - I bought Male USB Type A connector made for circuit board I believe. The connector is short and it has no plastic molding (see picture / link below). I soldered onto the stub USB (type A) male connector cable extension with female USB A connector. It was easy to solder and heat shrink made it tidy. I made a slight mouse hole on the upper case cover to route the USB cable (female) out of case. The TU-S9 USB to serial adapter USB plugs nicely into my cable extension. In case GPS still installed. It works. My set up can be undone and put the Stratux back into portable config. It is still portable just with the cable hanging out of it, but I can remove cable and go back to original. The mouse hole in case top does not affect overall appearance. I can buy a new case cover, the whole case for $17. It does take some assembly and disassembly to get at it.. but doable.

If you DO NOT have Stratux already consider a different route. However in my case I already had a Stratux made by Crew Dog. They are now $400. I got mine pre "panorama" at almost half that. I was going to make my own, but by the time I bought all the parts it was going to be a good chunk of just buying the CrewDog turn key. The CrewDog, came with battery, accessories. So I had it, and I am using it. I got a 12v to 5v USB adapter to power the Statux.

If you do NOT have a Stratux already like I did consider the GRT Avionics ADS-B "Discovery" receiver. It is about $500, but made for permanent installation. If you have Garmin or Dynon you may want to check, they are picky and proprietary about interfaces.

There are transponders with ADS-B Out and IN already. They tend to be expensive but a clean all in one solution.

The Stratux has WIFI and will send data to your iPad or Tablet. I did my set up for under $300. Also you can tell the Stratux to ignore or suppress your plane. The GRT has sttings to do that as well.

This is the magic connector (magic as in solved the space issue)
USB 2.0 Type A Male Socket Connector Repair Adapter Board Mount. (digikey, amazon, ali express, ebay)
Amazon is 100 for $10, You can buy smaller quantities (10 for $6). This is just an example, but if you have Prime it may be OK.
Ali Express 10 for $1 free shipping. DigiKey is good if you already have an order with them.
48037-0001.jpg


You still have to fabricate a female USB extension cable. I cut the chunky male end off a cable of a high quality male to female extension cable, soldered on my magic USB stubby connecter. It, hurt a little but worked out great.

The other idea, and I bought it on Ali Express, still waiting to get it, is this low profile right angle extension. This guy will require surgery on case but again can be undone, albeit with a bigger MOD to case than above cable I already made. This was a backup plan. I likely will not incorporate, since my cable worked out well. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
5cm-300cm USB 2.0 A Plug to Male&Male/Female 90 Angled Extension Cable USB 2.0 Male to Female Right/Left/Down/Up Black Cable
photos.app.goo.gl

New item by gmcjetpilot

photos.app.goo.gl photos.app.goo.gl

* FYI for those who did not know... Raspberry Pi is not only a delicious dessert but a general use Micro processor and operating system that reads program off a SD card. It can do whatever you want. Hobbyist do some neat things with them. I am not one of those enthusiast but it is cool. One group is Stratux, which is an OPEN SOURCE project that turns the Pi into a ADS-B receiver with plug in USB modules, radio receivers and GPS. It has a huge user group support. You can make your own, buy parts. The software is free. The program is stable and the "official release" is vetted. Updates are not as often as it is a mature platform. However late last year they did update it. It is not a must have update but nic to have. The Raspberry Pi comes in different flavors, pun intended, but the one I have, has a built in AHARS (yes you can get attitude, pitch and roll) and WiFi. WIFI is the the main way you talk to and get info from the Pi. However for EFIS that needs a RS232 input to get ADS-B data, you have to fit a USB to RS232 adapter. Now you have a nice ADS-B receiver for traffic and weather for both your panel mounted EFIS and your tablet via WiFi... There are many ways to get ADS-B in, some expensive. The Stratux is low cost but requires some work. . I have $250 to $300 in my ADS-B in setup all up. It works well. No compromise in function or quality and quantity of data. It runs at 115200 baud btw. ADS-B in is ADS-B in. However note, if you are NOT sending OUT ADS-B you may NOT always see other ADS-B traffic. It is analogous to your transponder does not reply unless radar interrogates it. If the ADS-B out does not get ping from ground tower or another plane it may be silent. ADS-B traffic is not a substitute for looking out the canopy.
Click to expand...
Excuse my delay time for reply.
I'm a nut n bolts mechanic...love electronics but find myself challenged to troubleshoot basic electricity. Working 10 years in flight test as a crew chief I found that upon road trip assignment I would only accept unless I could choose Art Raymore, he could troubleshoot wiring from a diagram....there were about 4 others in the hangar that couldn't and one we called one wire George...that should indicate his expertise....so that's my background. I read and digested your post over several days...firstly...thank you for such a detailed response. I have often thought of purchasing a Stratux, I have a friend that swears by em. My Stratus esg I had some weak transmission or talking to my ipad and with all the mosquito's (flight training) I need to know where they are and what altitude/direction. Question? Are you saying I can use my ESG with mod's or are you saying I need to go the route of obtaining a Stratux? You do mention the GRT unit....again thanks
Doug
 
Doug, I've been doing a little research for you. If you decide to install a GRT EFIS and want to display ADSB In traffic and weather on it (this is the setup I have been using since ADSB In became available) here are some options. GRT requires ADSB In data to be in RS232 serial communication, not WiFi or Bluetooth.

Appareo says their ADSB In (which you apparently have now) only communicates via WiFi. GRT does not accept that. Appareo says they have not tested any other setup.

Stratux uses a Raspberry Pi computer. It can be equipped with a card to produce serial ADSB In that GRT can use. I have this in my airplane. There is a Crew Dog Stratux for sale on VAF that would work or you can purchase new from them. But they do not have the serial card installed and that can be tricky to procure and setup. I have an email in to them to see about that.

GRT sells Discovery ADSB receiver which not only provides RS232 ADSB data that GRT EFIS need but also WiFi ADSB data that your iPad with ForeFlight or other software can use.

For you the simplest solution would be to purchase GRT Discovery receiver and remove your Appareo Stratus 1,2 or 3 ADSB In receiver. A little cheaper but more difficult to set up would be a Stratux with the serial card and again remove the Stratus ADSB In receiver.

I mentioned Jessie Saint previously since he is familiar with experimental aircraft and does quality work. I imagine he has done many GRT installs as well as other brands.

I have used GRT EFIS for over 20 years and am very happy with them. But I'm sure there are similar offerings from Dynon or Garmin that could work well for you. One of them might be able to use the WiFi from your Stratus ADSB In receiver, I really don't know. Your best bet would be to talk with an experienced shop like Jessie Saint or Stein to get guidance.

Hope this helps.

Jim Butcher
 
h&jeuropa said:
Doug, I've been doing a little research for you. If you decide to install a GRT EFIS and want to display ADSB In traffic and weather on it (this is the setup I have been using since ADSB In became available) here are some options. GRT requires ADSB In data to be in RS232 serial communication, not WiFi or Bluetooth.

Appareo says their ADSB In (which you apparently have now) only communicates via WiFi. GRT does not accept that. Appareo says they have not tested any other setup.

Stratux uses a Raspberry Pi computer.[SNIP]

Jim Butcher
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Interesting Appareo and Stratux have WiFi out for ADS-B out. In the case of Appareo transponder it sounds like it has no serial port for ADS-B data. What about adding WiFi to the GRT?

GRT (Horz 10.1) it has two USB and 12 serial ports, no WiFi. However can you add WiFi to the GRT? There are USB to WiFi adapters, and there are also "Serial to WiFi Ethernet Wireless Converter RS232 RS485 Serial Server" adapters. If you could stay WiFi, that would make it simple either using the Appareo or Sttatux.

This is just a theory at this point for discussion. I don't know if it would work. You might know or have opinion? If it could be done, it would be a cool option. Regardless of what ADS-B you have IN or OUT there are a lot of options. Apology for thread drift. :)

BACK to budget panel, I only suggest the GRT and Stratux as a budget solution and I already owned a Stratux. If you go all GARMIN or DYNON with their turn key solution, it will be a nice package, just more expensive. GRT tends to work with anyone's stuff, and they have their own in-house ADS-B in solution (which is less costly). Where Garmin and Dynon tend to require proprietary components which also tend to be more expensive.

PS: Just a rant, a portable ADS-B "in" WiFi receiver bugs me, Sentry by ForeFlight. It will not work with other EFB Apps even if running on a iPad. Sentry ADS-B (portable WiFi) only works with ForeFlight (as far as I know correct me if I am wrong). I am sure it is great. I see my students connect to it in our flight club plane with a Sentry. I can't connect. I don't have Foreflight. I use an EFB I like and is as good. Seems like a waste.
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
Interesting Appareo and Stratux have WiFi out for ADS-B out. In the case of Appareo transponder it sounds like it has no serial port for ADS-B data. What about adding WiFi to the GRT?

GRT (Horz 10.1) it has two USB and 12 serial ports, no WiFi. However can you add WiFi to the GRT? There are USB to WiFi adapters, and there are also "Serial to WiFi Ethernet Wireless Converter RS232 RS485 Serial Server" adapters. If you could stay WiFi, that would make it simple either using the Appareo or Sttatux.

This is just a theory at this point for discussion. I don't know if it would work. You might know or have opinion? If it could be done, it would be a cool option. Regardless of what ADS-B you have IN or OUT there are a lot of options. Apology for thread drift. :)

BACK to budget panel, I only suggest the GRT and Stratux as a budget solution and I already owned a Stratux. If you go all GARMIN or DYNON with their turn key solution, it will be a nice package, just more expensive. GRT tends to work with anyone's stuff, and they have their own in-house ADS-B in solution (which is less costly). Where Garmin and Dynon tend to require proprietary components which also tend to be more expensive.

PS: Just a rant, a portable ADS-B "in" WiFi receiver bugs me, Sentry by ForeFlight. It will not work with other EFB Apps even if running on a iPad. Sentry ADS-B (portable WiFi) only works with ForeFlight (as far as I know correct me if I am wrong). I am sure it is great. I see my students connect to it in our flight club plane with a Sentry. I can't connect. I don't have Foreflight. I use an EFB I like and is as good. Seems like a waste.
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George, you raise good points....
Could the wifi connection to ADSB in be "inferior" to wired?

Often if I pitch my airplane in a "evasive traffic manuver" or a steep lazy 8 and "I see an aircraft right after the manuver on my IPAD at the SAME ALTITUDE and very close to my airplane".
It is a fault as there are no aircraft near by, it is a ghost of my aircraft and it quickly disappears.

Doug
 
stringbender said:
George, you raise good points....
Could the wifi connection to ADSB in be "inferior" to wired?

Often if I pitch my airplane in a "evasive traffic manuver" or a steep lazy 8 and "I see an aircraft right after the manuver on my IPAD at the SAME ALTITUDE and very close to my airplane".
It is a fault as there are no aircraft near by, it is a ghost of my aircraft and it quickly disappears.

Doug
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That has nothing to do with wired or wireless. It appears to be an issue with the ATC radar systems. They probably expect you to continue your trajectory, but suddenly see a target in an unexpected place. I get similar stuff when near a mountain... I think we get radar bounce off the mountain - so then the radar 'sees' two targets.

WiFi can be inferior to wired, but usually only when there are multiple walls in between or trying to get WiFi in your back yard when the source is 50' away. Inside the cockpit should be fine. At one point I was thinking of hanging a camera under the wing, and remote controlling by WiFi. Don't know how well that would work with multiple aluminum panels in the way.

Regarding a unit only supporting RS-232, but you are trying to connect bluetooth, I remember researching this a while back and found an inexpensive bluetooth/serial converter. If interested I can try to dig that info up. I think it was so cheap I even bought one. But then the project went off in another direction.
 
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