Finish kit volunteer program

[glider_rider]

Back in March 2023 I revived the following from Vans:
“Do you have a flexible timeframe for your finish kit? Quite a few customers have told us they won't actually need their finish kits as soon as their current schedule states, while others are stalled in their build and have a more immediate need. If you know you will not need your finish kit during the timeframe we have indicated below, and you would like to volunteer to delay your finish kit to help make it work for another customer who is waiting - please click here to let us know.”
My R10 finish kit order was almost fully paid, but as the kits were in short supply, I was thinking that I would help both Vans and the community by volunteering in the program. I did apply and was given delivery date in February 2024. Vans kept my money and sold my finish kit to someone else. To my surprise, they treat me now like any customer with an open order, like I never volunteered to their program, like this never happened. My email enquires remain unanswered.
Question, am I alone in this boat? Did anyone else volunteer to delay finish kit deliveries and is still waiting for delivery?

 

[rv12iS-builder]

Question, am I alone in this boat? Did anyone else volunteer to delay finish kit deliveries and is still waiting for delivery?

I volunteered to delay delivery of my 12iS finish kit and also have not yet received it. In a phone conversation, Van’s told me that due to the bankruptcy, any timing or pricing that had previously been communicated is no longer valid.

 

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Wow. I've been willing to give Van's the benefit of the doubt up to this point--that it was just mismanagement that got them into hot water--but the above two examples are very questionable ethically. I hope they reach out to you and others and do what is right, whether that is immediately or whether it is after they emerge from BR. Sorry you are in this situation.

 

[lr172]

Yea, this kind of careless disregard will definitely hurt them long term. Sure, chap 11 allows them to stick it to anyone. However, that doesn't mean they should. Ckearly the focus is to generate cash. However, doing so without any regard to their reputation is short sited. It may get them back into the red, but the only way to stay there is by having customers that trust them enough to place new orders. Can't read much into what is happening now, as most affected customers are already partially invested and will tolerate more to get out from under it. That doesn't apply to those that have not ordered yet.

That said, this is not much different than the guy that was asked for his final payment on a kit, only to have Vans delay and the declare chap 11, leaving him in the same boat.

What I think may happen in the aftermath is that folks will come to realize that once this over and they start producing excess cash, ALL of it goes back to Van (DIP with priority) and likely none back to customers. I speculate that at some point this creates damage to one's reputation. In situations like this, they may be better to offer an option to get something back once they return to profitability. That puts customers on their side vs enemies running around telling the world how Vans penalized them for doing something to help them.

Its one thing to say we couldn't ship in time and now you are stuck with the price increase. Its a totally different matter for someone who paid in advance and Vans never delivered IMHO. At least from a moral and ethical standpoint. Legalities are a different matter.

Larry

 

[mstrauss]

I did the same for my 14A finish kit. I didn't know it was a "program" of any sort. I just asked it there was a builder in need of the kit now, I would be willing to move back in the line, as I was not ready for it yet. At that time, we discussed price concerns, and I was told there would be no price increase. I thought I was helping out a fellow builder. If Vans said no, I would have made my final payment. I wish I had done just that, as I would not been in this current situation. The kit is now a 42% price increase from what was contracted.

 

[QuixoteAg]

Yea, this kind of careless disregard will definitely hurt them long term. Sure, chap 11 allows them to stick it to anyone. However, that doesn't mean they should. Ckearly the focus is to generate cash. However, doing so without any regard to their reputation is short sited. It may get them back into the red, but the only way to stay there is by having customers that trust them enough to place new orders. Can't read much into what is happening now, as most affected customers are already partially invested and will tolerate more to get out from under it. That doesn't apply to those that have not ordered yet.

That said, this is not much different than the guy that was asked for his final payment on a kit, only to have Vans delay and the declare chap 11, leaving him in the same boat.

What I think may happen in the aftermath is that folks will come to realize that once this over and they start producing excess cash, ALL of it goes back to Van (DIP with priority) and likely none back to customers. I speculate that at some point this creates damage to one's reputation. In situations like this, they may be better to offer an option to get something back once they return to profitability. That puts customers on their side vs enemies running around telling the world how Vans penalized them for doing something to help them.

Its one thing to say we couldn't ship in time and now you are stuck with the price increase. Its a totally different matter for someone who paid in advance and Vans never delivered IMHO. At least from a moral and ethical standpoint. Legalities are a different matter.

Larry

I'm not sure they can 'do the right thing' here - i think the bankruptcy laws are fairly black and white in the anyone in this boat would fall in the same boat as someone who just paid for their kit 2 months before chapter 11. both paid, and neither received what they paid for. I think they have to treat both customers "the same". sucks from a customer relationship pov but i'm not sure vans can 'do the right thing' and treat one customer situation different that another's.

 

[glider_rider]

i think the bankruptcy laws are fairly black and white in the anyone in this boat would fall in the same boat as someone who just paid for their kit 2 months before chapter 11

The difference is that I paid for the kit, and guy who got my finish kit also paid for the sam kit. Must have been a good deal for Vans.
Is it ethical, is it fair to ask me now to pay up? I'm sure there are better ways

 

[Cholley6]

No it's not fair to you, but I do recall in the meeting of creditors that they are legally not allowed to have different rules for different customers. Listening to them speak at that time they agreed with you. But chapter 11 has their hands tied, so to speak.

 

[apicreator]

Lots of good folks with fully paid avionics, wings, fuselage and even engines are in the same boat. As the last poster wrote, you do not have any option other than accept or file a claim and recover whatever you can. The later is not really an option for some of us as we already started the build. It sucks and I am on the same boat. I will not be able to forget this burn very easy.

 

[QuixoteAg]

The difference is that I paid for the kit, and guy who got my finish kit also paid for the sam kit. Must have been a good deal for Vans.
Is it ethical, is it fair to ask me now to pay up? I'm sure there are better ways

Not fair at all. Just don’t think they can legally be fair in this situation. Legal is not always fair

 

[glider_rider]

Just don’t think they can legally be fair in this situation

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate that. As for Vans inaction, they could at least reply to my enquires, doesn't cost a lot. "Sorry seems to be the hardest word"