E-Magair indicator lights

[N941WR]

Back when I designed my panel the goal was to keep every thing dark unless there is a problem. When something goes wrong time to light up like a Christmas tree.

Then along comes E-Mag with their proposed LED that will be illuminated at all times for normal operations. Green for normal operations, red for a timing error, and dark when operating under their own power.

IMHO this is wrong with the dark cockpit philosophy that I have adopted and will keep me from installing their warning light.

My preference would be:
Dark ? All is good
Red ? Timing error
Yellow ? Internal power

Am I out of line on my thinking? I would like to hear your opinion.

 

[RV7Guy]

Call them

I'm sure Brad and Tom will be receptive to the idea. I kind of like the "dark" panel idea.

 

[lrfrey]

I agree, Bill. Where did you read this, I can't seem to find it? I like lights out for "good".

Larry

 

[ptrotter]

Bill,

I agree. I don't want to see lights unless they are telling me something I need to worry about or reminding me about something that I need to remember to turn off. Therefore I only want to see warning lights if there is a problem and I plan to have lights for things like the fuel pump being on to remind me to turn it off. Steady state should be no lights at all.

 

[N941WR]

FYI -

Brad mentioned this in the most recent service bulletin.

When he and I spoke he mentioned the single, always on light idea. More as a low cost indicator that he could include with the mags for free.

I'm trying to entice him to develop a more compressive duel LED indicator like I propose, even if it costs additional $$$.

This brings up a good question, how much would you pay for an optional duel light indicator system?

I'm thinking somewhere between $50 and $100 would get me to buy one.

BTW, the red timing error light, as proposed, would only work with a duel E/P-mag set up.

 

[erich weaver]

Bill

I cant argue with your logic about "off" indicating all is well, but I dont follow your argument that something over and above the system currently proposed by emagair is required. In their e-mail, they describe the proposed system as consisting of "a single two-color LED". This would seem to already be capable of satisfying your objectives of idnicating "all is good", "timing error", and "internal power" by using the off, 1st color, and 2nd color states. It would seem its just a matter of convincing them that off should correspond with "all is good".

Am I missing something?

erich

 

[N941WR]

Erich,

Yes, the system as originally proposed (Brad and I have spoken on the phone so this is based on some additional info that I have.) will only work with a duel E/P-mag setup. In addition, the green light would stay on all the time to tell you everything is working properly. It would turn red when the timing between the two E/P-mags disagrees by more than 5 degrees. Off would indicate you have lost ship's power.

If you have a standard mag and a P-Mag you could not use the light as proposed because there would not be a second E/P-mag to compare against. Thus the light would be red all the time. The solution I propose would allow users of one E/P-mag to have an indicator that all is well (dark) or they are running on internal power (yellow).

(A number of people have stated that the P-Mags run off of internal power automatically above a set RPM. The yellow indicator would only light up if ship's power is not available to the P-mag. Say because of a broken wire.)

The "two color LED" can display red, green, or yellow by turning on both the red and the green lights at the same time. They can also flash any color combination for additional indications. So the three color solution is easy enough to do. The "off is good" thing will require some simple circuitry so adding the three color solution isn't really that difficult to add.

In the emails Brad and I exchanged this morning he is seeing the "light" with regard to the dark panel philosophy and it sounds like he is moving in that direction.

 

[frankh]

What would be really handy

Is if this little anunciator panel had a knob that you could set max advance for swapping between AVgas and Mogas.

Its a pain to do this with a PC

Frank

 

[airguy]

Is if this little anunciator panel had a knob that you could set max advance for swapping between AVgas and Mogas.

Its a pain to do this with a PC

Frank

Now THAT would be a handy thing to have! A simple toggle switch on the panel for max advance setting, and label it 93UL and 100LL. I'd pay a dollar or two for the ability to have that in the panel....

 

[penguin]

Now THAT would be a handy thing to have! A simple toggle switch on the panel for max advance setting, and label it 93UL and 100LL. I'd pay a dollar or two for the ability to have that in the panel....

You already have that functionality. Install a jumper that retards the ignition (sorry, can't remember which 'pins'), the put a switch in that wire. Full advance =100LL, retarded=93UL. If you want to change the actual settings of "full advance" and "retarded" then use EICAD to do that.
Pete

 

[frankh]

Advance settings

So right now you can swap between 34 and 39 degrees I believe....by jumpering pins 2 and 3

Are you telling me that that EICAD can be set so that you can swap between say 25 and 34 degrees when you switch in the jumpers?

Thanks

Frank

 

[pczar3]

The philosophical answer

IMHO, as an engineer who spent many hours doing safety system design, the reason not to have a "dark panel" is in the event of a failure in the LED or driver circuitry. Is it dark because it is okay or because something went west in the driver circuit? Some would argue that a light test circuit would solve that but how often do you check it in flight to assure it is okay? I would opt for a low light level that gets brighter and flashes with a problem. Bright and no flash... problem and a broken flasher, flash but not bright... problem and broken "bright" circuit... you get the idea. The idea with a warning light is that it gets your attention Master Warning etc.

Paul
N694BP - reserved

 

[N941WR]

IMHO, as an engineer who spent many hours doing safety system design, the reason not to have a "dark panel" is in the event of a failure in the LED or driver circuitry. Is it dark because it is okay or because something went west in the driver circuit? Some would argue that a light test circuit would solve that but how often do you check it in flight to assure it is okay? I would opt for a low light level that gets brighter and flashes with a problem. Bright and no flash... problem and a broken flasher, flash but not bright... problem and broken "bright" circuit... you get the idea. The idea with a warning light is that it gets your attention Master Warning etc.

Paul
N694BP - reserved

Paul,

That sounds like a good idea but isn't that kind of like a backup to the backup system?

Edit: 6/28/07
On the drive in to work this morning I was thinking about this post. This could be a backup to the backup to the backup to the backup, if you are running duel P-mags, as I am.

Here is why. The 2nd ignition is a backup for the first (1), the internal generator is a backup to ship's power (2 & 3), the light (dark or otherwise) is a backup to the operation of the units (4).

I'm sure this could go on but my point is, how much redundancy is required? If I really wanted a lot of redundancy, I would fly a bi-plane.

 

[penguin]

So right now you can swap between 34 and 39 degrees I believe....by jumpering pins 2 and 3

Are you telling me that that EICAD can be set so that you can swap between say 25 and 34 degrees when you switch in the jumpers?

Thanks

Frank

Yes, I believe so. You can't advance beyond 39 deg or retard further than another hard limit (20 deg I think), but EICAD can be used to change the slope of the advance curve. If you put in 25, I think you will have a flat advance curve. But with EICAD you have the ability to set the two curves, to a limited extent. Probably best to call Brad to make sure I am remembering correctly.
Pete