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AndyWAUS

Member
I ordered three kits from Vans. The last communication we had before the bankruptcy was that two of them were ready to pick up. I asked if I could come pick up all three, and they told me they would reach out in about a month when the third one is ready. All three were paid 100%.

Now I'm trying to understand the logic behind Vans wanting extra money for the two kits they said were ready for me to pick up. Had I ran there same day, I would now have two of my kits, and would likely proceed with the price increase of the third one. But a month passed and they were ignoring all my emails - that was still in August/September. Now they want extra for the kits they had already built for me.

I can't help but suspect that back in September they already knew they were in trouble, so they chose to ignore my emails and hold on to the MY kits that were supposed to be "ready for pickup" in an effort to sell them to me again for 50% extra.
 
Not saying it's right or wrong but.... I feel this falls into Van's says your kits are ready and you choose not to pick them up or take delivery so they gave them to the next customer in line and you were put back in the que.
 
APicard said:
Not saying it's right or wrong but.... I feel this falls into Van's says your kits are ready and you choose not to pick them up or take delivery so they gave them to the next customer in line and you were put back in the que.
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He said he was wanting to pick the 2 kits up. Vans asked him to wait for the 3rd. It was Vans delay that's now costing him more $$.
This is wrong on many levels.
 
APicard said:
Not saying it's right or wrong but.... I feel this falls into Van's says your kits are ready and you choose not to pick them up or take delivery so they gave them to the next customer in line and you were put back in the que.
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This is not what happened. I asked if I could pick them all up and they said yes, just wait for the third one. Had they said no, I would've come and picked up the first two. The orders were placed in February 2022, so obviously I didn't want to wait another 18 months. They said it would be a month, then I would receive my three kits.
 
One aspect that makes me feel especially frustrated is that right before Vans stopped answering my emails, they chatted with me about upgrading the standard wheels to Beringer and extracted another $5k from me on top of everything I had already paid. I suspect they were well aware of their financial situation at that time and chose to squeeze every last drop from naive customers like me before disappearing.
 
I suspected paid in full but not picked up or shipped counts as inventory.

The court probably allows them to raise the price on you just like a deposit.

If you are a AOPA member they have a attorney that is part of the membership. They may be able clarify this.
 
In many businesses that deal in large items that require logistical arrangements, the customer owns the product when it is available for pick up, and the bill is paid-in-full. Companies typically have posted policies indicating storage charges to be assessed after a stated grace period.
This way of doing business at Vans as described does seem odd.
 
flyrlfs said:
He said he was wanting to pick the 2 kits up. Vans asked him to wait for the 3rd. It was Vans delay that's now costing him more $$.
This is wrong on many levels.
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His first post said he asked if he could pick up all three when only 2 were ready and then they told him it would be another month.
 
APicard said:
His first post said he asked if he could pick up all three when only 2 were ready and then they told him it would be another month.
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The last communication we had before the bankruptcy was that two of them were ready to pick up.
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A lot may depend upon the exact words used, but if this is what they said, then "ready to pick up" means *ready to pick up*, as in pick them up. Now, tomorrow, next week...the item, assuming fully paid for, is yours to pick up.

Right? Because it seems otherwise it's called stealing...you fully and completely paid for something, a company tells you it's ready to pick up, but can you wait, and the wait ends up being they keep your money and your property.
 
If it’s any comfort those kits were likely filled with diseased parts. Vans was fully aware of this and perhaps this played a role in their very dubious behavior.

Greg Beckner
141283
Dues paid!
 
APicard said:
His first post said he asked if he could pick up all three when only 2 were ready and then they told him it would be another month.
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Second post said the same thing. He elected to leave them there because he wanted to get them all at once. They accommodated that request. Who's on first.
 
The message from Vans was titled just like the title of this thread. Here is their exact wording:

Subject: RV-10 QFuselage/Finish kits are ready for pickup at Van's Aircraft, Inc. --FINAL BALANCE DUE/NEED TO SCHEDULE P/U DATE

Thank you for your RV-10 QFuselage/Finish Kit orders.
Our Crating dept has finalized your orders and are now ready for pick up.
RV-10 QFuselage – UNCRATED
RV-10 Finish - CRATED

**NOTE: Balance on RV-10 QFuselage kit of $4955.00 is due prior to pickup of kits.
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I submitted the payment. Their final message.

Thank you, we have received your $4955 payment.
Your QWing are not ready until August.
Once they are ready, I will email you to set up the pickup for all 3 kits.
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I also assumed that it meant specific kits were crated specifically for me, and at the moment I transferred the final payment, the money became Van's property, and the merchandize became my property. Is this not how trade works in the USA?

I recognize that the fuselage kit is probably full of laser cut parts. But the finishing doesn't change that much if at all. And since the kits are technically mine, I expect a better deal than this ultimatum to pay up more or receive nothing.
 
Other guys here reported something similar with engines. Isn't that fraud? I don't believe that this kind of behavior is erased by the protection of chapter 11 regulations.
 
AndyWAUS said:
The message from Vans was titled just like the title of this thread. Here is their exact wording:



I submitted the payment. Their final message.



I also assumed that it meant specific kits were crated specifically for me, and at the moment I transferred the final payment, the money became Van's property, and the merchandize became my property. Is this not how trade works in the USA?

I recognize that the fuselage kit is probably full of laser cut parts. But the finishing doesn't change that much if at all. And since the kits are technically mine, I expect a better deal than this ultimatum to pay up more or receive nothing.
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You have shared only Van's side of the communications. In both of your posts you used the phrase "I asked" regarding picking things up all at once. It is relevant whether they held them at your request, or they just dictated that on their own. Maybe they did but it's not what you typed out the first two times.
 
Didn't think my exact wording was relevant, but for to complete the picture, here is my exact response to their first message:

I have submitted a payment for $4,955.00.

I would like to come next week to pick up the kits. I plan to rent a U-Haul truck. Could you please send me the dimensions of the two kits so I choose the proper length for the truck?

Also, I see that my wings kit is also assigned to crating. Do you think I could pick all three at the same time?
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You can see that I requested to pick them up "next week", which was still in July. I did not request the delay, I merely asked if I could pick up all three having seen the "assigned to crating" status on the third.
 
KayS said:
Other guys here reported something similar with engines. Isn't that fraud? I don't believe that this kind of behavior is erased by the protection of chapter 11 regulations.
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In my book, it is fraud. Which is why I can't agree with the posters talking about how it would be a "rough ride" but Van will recover from this bankruptcy and come out "stronger than ever". Duh, it's not that hard to come out strong when you're granted permission to steal tens of thousands of dollars from customers. They may recover, but I may not.
 
maxmirot said:
Did they now refuse to allow pick up on the complete items?
I assume you called.
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Tried calling yesterday but couldn't reach them. Will try again today. I have submitted a question through their new website as soon as I saw the offer. Haven't received a response yet.
 
They knew they were in trouble, you are now an unsecured creditor, best of luck to you, some people on here giving advice are ignoring reality.
 
AndyWAUS said:
Tried calling yesterday but couldn't reach them. Will try again today. I have submitted a question through their new website as soon as I saw the offer. Haven't received a response yet.
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I'm in a similar boat. I was supposed to pick up my wing kit, scheduled 3 Nov, I still went down to another item on will-call hoping I could get it anyway.
Talked to Kyle, I think, last week. I've emailed with full mail strings to the kits team to find out what's up. still no answers.

I'll be calling again this week. But I expect I'll be taking a drive down next week to figure this out since, as of now, I have not received any email for new terms.

For context, this is the email from Kim to which I replied "hanks for the reply, yes I still plan to pick up the kit this Friday."
On Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 9:10 AM Kimberly Ann Cobb <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Eric,

Yes, all tours have been cancelled.
The only thing I can release to you on Nov 3rd is the Wing kit that we scheduled you for.
Please let me know if you are able to collect the Wing kit and I will keep you on the schedule for picking that kit up since it has been processed in is out of inventory.

Thank you,
 
Crating

The sad part of this is that crating was not mandatory. I picked up a kit uncrated. They just drew all the parts and put them in a large box and placed it outside. I just loaded the parts in my truck and left.
 
Sucks

Just another example of suck, may be one of the worst. I volunteered to delay receiving my finish kit when Vans notified me it was being crated. I wish I hadn't done that. You never think something like this is going to happen.

When I got my emp and wings, they held onto the wings for 2-3 weeks so both could be shipped together saving me some on the shipping. I thought that was very nice, as that was a bit against the stated policy. Point being, I would never have thought doing so would put me in the situation you are in, sorry it happened to you.
 
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Sorry

I am sorry you all are having to deal with the frustration of knowing you had a kit ready to be picked up and now the deal has effectively vaporized. I think Van's should not be asking you for more money. I believe if a person in authority hears your case they will honor your original deal with Van's.

It's just awful the chaos that Van's has unwittingly created for its customers in the past few years. It's a sad situation. We'll get through this.
 
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