[bertschb]

I read the Chapter 11 reorganization plan which includes the following categories:

• Customers who received laser cut parts
• Customers with deposits on engines, propellors and avionics
• Customers with open parts orders
• Customers with deposits on aircraft kits
• Vendors with open invoices

I fall into the first four categories but I also made full payment on a kit that hasn't been delivered. It seems this should be an additional category. Based on comments from Vans, even though I ordered this kit in March and made full payment in August, I may end up being the lowest priority to get my kit based on this comment from Vans:

"We will do our best to prioritize those who have waited longest, but our kit fulfillment schedule must be financially acceptable to the court, based substantially on cash flow..."


Pretty bummed because my order gives them no additional cash flow compared to people who have only made deposits. Even if they ask me to make an additional "final" payment, that will not give them as much money as a new guy who only paid a deposit. In fact, my order gives them the least amount of cash of any other scenario.

I have another order that I've only made a deposit on and I'm OK paying more to get that kit. I'm also OK with paying some of the cost to get my laser cut parts replaced. I'm not too excited about paying more for my engine because it's already crazy expensive but I will pay more if asked to. BUT, I'll be ticked if my fully paid for, nine month old order gets bumped to the back of the line and sits there for a year while new orders jump ahead in line over and over and over because they all give Vans more cash than my order.

 

[calvid]

"We will do our best to prioritize those who have waited longest, but our kit fulfillment schedule must be financially acceptable to the court, based substantially on cash flow..."

I wonder if we're reading too much into this statement. It could be a way of saying "the most profitable thing would be to run 10/14 parts for a while and let people with orders for 6/7/8/9 kits wait even though they've been in the queue longer." Or vice-versa, I have no idea what kits have more orders pending or how they get batched together. But maybe it's more about that and less about how much money is outstanding on individual kits.

 

[Jonnyb]

Im getting to the point where I would like to put a deposit down for an -8 finish kit. I need to know approximately when it will ship though. Just for my own financial planning!

 

[bertschb]

Think about the several hundred other builders who paid millions in deposits for their engines, props and/or avionics who now discover their deposits were spent by Van's for things other than engines...

I'm one of them. I put a deposit down on a Thunderbolt engine in March. I'm not worried about the engine. I'll end up paying more for it but it will probably ship on schedule. Same with my other kit that I have a deposit on. It will cost more but ship on time more or less.

The point of my post is the one scenario not listed in the reorganization plan where my fully paid kit that was supposed to crate in October may not ship for another year while I wait behind other customers who only have deposits.

 

[Jayhox88]

I'm one of them. I put a deposit down on a Thunderbolt engine in March. I'm not worried about the engine. I'll end up paying more for it but it will probably ship on schedule. Same with my other kit that I have a deposit on. It will cost more but ship on time more or less.

The point of my post is the one scenario not listed in the reorganization plan where my fully paid kit that was supposed to crate in October may not ship for another year while I wait behind other customers who only have deposits.

I am in the same boat with multiple kit order deposits paid (4) and only one received. Additionally, have made the prop and engine deposit. My biggest need is real information related to all of those items so I can make at least a somewhat informed decision. If my deposit is gone on the prop and engine and both prices increase......that could be enough, coupled with the kit price increases to not risk any additional capital. Also, I'm concerned about the delivery timelines if I agree to the new pricing. Would the language allow them to increase it multiple more times prior to the arrival of the kit(s), prop or engine? Good intel here is paramount IMHO.

 

[Pilot135pd]

I suggest participating in the bankruptcy proceedings. I'm not saying pitchforks and hot tar, I'm saying unless you participate, however that's done for creditors, it's the only way you'll get heard. Don't count on others to have your same doubts.

 

[TTaylor]

I am in the same boat with multiple kit order deposits paid (4) and only one received. Additionally, have made the prop and engine deposit. My biggest need is real information related to all of those items so I can make at least a somewhat informed decision. If my deposit is gone on the prop and engine and both prices increase......that could be enough, coupled with the kit price increases to not risk any additional capital. Also, I'm concerned about the delivery timelines if I agree to the new pricing. Would the language allow them to increase it multiple more times prior to the arrival of the kit(s), prop or engine? Good intel here is paramount IMHO.

I agree and this is the boat that we are in. Deposit in on -10 finish kit and had put down a deposit on prop and engine. Canceled prop order when it was done way sooner than expected and moved that deposit over to our engine before this whole thing came to bear. I truly hope that whatever negotiations Van's is engaged in with Lycoming wrap up before we're asked to decide on accepting whatever new pricing structure is offered for the finish kit. We're on the edge of being priced out of the game, and if there is a big change coming with the engine, I really need to know before 1/14.

 

[vsavatar]

You should check the Debtor's notice and motion for omnibus rejection of executory contracts and see if you're on it. If you are, you should probably file a response to the motion and appear at the hearing (which will likely be via Zoom or some other videoconferencing, but you can ask for permission to appear that way in nearly any federal court bankruptcy proceeding) and place your objections on the record that they cannot reject your contract as executory, because you have complied with all your obligations regarding that contract. It is therefore, no longer executory, and is in fact a completed contract from your end and cannot be rejected or modified without your consent. Whether that will put you in a better position financially or not, I cannot say, as my bankruptcy practice was limited to Chapter 7 and Chapter 13, so you will probably wish to seek the advice of counsel that is versed in Chapter 11 practice. A consultation on that issue shouldn't cost you too much money.

 

[BOHICA]

You should check the Debtor's notice and motion for omnibus rejection of executory contracts and see if you're on it. If you are, you should probably file a response to the motion and appear at the hearing (which will likely be via Zoom or some other videoconferencing, but you can ask for permission to appear that way in nearly any federal court bankruptcy proceeding) and place your objections on the record that they cannot reject your contract as executory, because you have complied with all your obligations regarding that contract. It is therefore, no longer executory, and is in fact a completed contract from your end and cannot be rejected or modified without your consent. Whether that will put you in a better position financially or not, I cannot say, as my bankruptcy practice was limited to Chapter 7 and Chapter 13, so you will probably wish to seek the advice of counsel that is versed in Chapter 11 practice. A consultation on that issue shouldn't cost you too much money.

Where is that document? Might of missed in the other documents posted.


I am in the boat of LCP's in my kit and I did a deposit on my engine over 18months ago. I have my kit other than the engine.

 

[dbrotto]

RV-12iS SLSA Canceled Order Falls Between the Cracks?

I canceled my RV-12iS SLSA order in mid-September having purchased another airplane. I was due $4,500 of my $5,000 deposit back. Some excuses, some ghosting, some feet dragging from Vans ensued. I was not too worried about it and was confident that things would catch up and I'd get the refund back. Then came the first announcement. No communication from Vans about where I stood. Then the Chapter 11 announcement comes out. I checked the Creditor's list and I'm not on it. No one at Vans can (or will?) tell me anything.

If I don't hear anything from Vans in the next week or so, I plan to petition the Oregon Bankruptcy Court to get listed as a Creditor.

Anyone else have a pending or even canceled SLSA order?

d.

 

[mvanwyk]

I canceled my RV-12iS SLSA order in mid-September having purchased another airplane. I was due $4,500 of my $5,000 deposit back. Some excuses, some ghosting, some feet dragging from Vans ensued. I was not too worried about it and was confident that things would catch up and I'd get the refund back. Then came the first announcement. No communication from Vans about where I stood. Then the Chapter 11 announcement comes out. I checked the Creditor's list and I'm not on it. No one at Vans can (or will?) tell me anything.

If I don't hear anything from Vans in the next week or so, I plan to petition the Oregon Bankruptcy Court to get listed as a Creditor.

Anyone else have a pending or even canceled SLSA order?

d.

Me. But you already know my story.

 

[Pilot135pd]

If I don't hear anything from Vans in the next week or so, I plan to petition the Oregon Bankruptcy Court to get listed as a Creditor.

Why are you waiting? Do you expect, or hope, for Vans to reach out to you out of everyone they owe?

 

[sailvi767]

The problem with a chapter 11 filing is someone is going to lose. If the company had the ability to make everyone whole there would not have been a need to file. In the airline bankruptcies it was pretty much the employees who ate it. The creditors outside the employees walked away unscathed. The issue for Van’s is who is going to get scalped. If it’s the suppliers they might chose to not support Vans in the future. If it’s the customers they might also walk. There are no easy solutions.

 

[BobTurner]

The problem with a chapter 11 filing is someone is going to lose. If the company had the ability to make everyone whole there would not have been a need to file. In the airline bankruptcies it was pretty much the employees who ate it. .

Well, of course, the owners - the stock holders - lost all of their investment, too.

 

[swift12]

I read the Chapter 11 reorganization plan which includes the following categories:

• Customers who received laser cut parts
• Customers with deposits on engines, propellors and avionics
• Customers with open parts orders
• Customers with deposits on aircraft kits
• Vendors with open invoices

I fall into the first four categories but I also made full payment on a kit that hasn't been delivered. It seems this should be an additional category. Based on comments from Vans, even though I ordered this kit in March and made full payment in August, I may end up being the lowest priority to get my kit based on this comment from Vans:

"We will do our best to prioritize those who have waited longest, but our kit fulfillment schedule must be financially acceptable to the court, based substantially on cash flow..."


Pretty bummed because my order gives them no additional cash flow compared to people who have only made deposits. Even if they ask me to make an additional "final" payment, that will not give them as much money as a new guy who only paid a deposit. In fact, my order gives them the least amount of cash of any other scenario.

I have another order that I've only made a deposit on and I'm OK paying more to get that kit. I'm also OK with paying some of the cost to get my laser cut parts replaced. I'm not too excited about paying more for my engine because it's already crazy expensive but I will pay more if asked to. BUT, I'll be ticked if my fully paid for, nine month old order gets bumped to the back of the line and sits there for a year while new orders jump ahead in line over and over and over because they all give Vans more cash than my order.

why should lycoming charge more? they are not in chapter 11 and Vans don't set the lycoming price do they. They just need to ante up your deposit to Lycoming and lycoming accepted your order (i have an email from lycoming about pushing my order out so they know about it). any attempt to up the price from a third party is clipping the ticket or giving oncoming an excuse to "reset" the price for those older orders. That would really #### me off. Vans dont make lycoming engines and the order and price at the time were accepted by lycoming....so it should not change.

 

[dbrotto]

Why are you waiting? Do you expect, or hope, for Vans to reach out to you out of everyone they owe?

I was waiting as there was no place to file a claim prior to a day or so ago.

When I first tried to file a claim with the Oregon Bankruptcy court, the case was not yet recognized. During the first Bankruptcy hearing (last week), Vans petitioned to have a company called BMC handle creditor claims. My second attempt to find the case in the Bankruptcy Court (this week) directed me to BMC.

The case particulars can be viewed here: https://cases.creditorinfo.com/vansaircraft

Here is the link to file a claim:
https://onlineclaims.bmcgroup.com/VansAircraftInc/claim/filing410

So now there is a place to actually file a claim. Looks like the deadline to file a claim is February 12. I plan to submit in the next day or so... lots of evidence to scan to make my case.

d.

 

[FlyGuy65]

I put a deposit down on a Thunderbolt engine in March.

Have you heard anything from Lycoming? I also put a deposit down in March on an 180hp Thunderbolt. Propeller was delivered (looks great in the living room!) But no contact whatsoever regarding the engine, which, given the backlog, I was not too worried about.

 

[bertschb]

Have you heard anything from Lycoming?

No, but I didn't expect to hear anything. The lead time when I ordered in March was 18-24 months. I figured I wouldn't hear anything for at least a year. Of course, the lead time now is 36-48 months!!! I wouldn't have started my build if the lead time on the engine had been 3-4 years.

 

[bmellis11]

Not legal advice, but I wouldn't rush to put in a claim. Things may change a bit over the next month. There's going to be a meeting of the creditors on Jan. 12 (I believe that's the date), and we will be able to ask questions and get a better understanding of what went on and what we can claim. Also keep in mind that if Van's is going to offer to ship whatever you have pending if you agree to a new offers. So I'd wait to see what that offer is before you reject it.

 

[mstrauss]

Well, of course, the owners - the stock holders - lost all of their investment, too.

How is that exactly? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand how that is the case here.

 

[N82VM]

why should lycoming charge more? they are not in chapter 11 and Vans don't set the lycoming price do they. They just need to ante up your deposit to Lycoming and lycoming accepted your order (i have an email from lycoming about pushing my order out so they know about it). any attempt to up the price from a third party is clipping the ticket or giving oncoming an excuse to "reset" the price for those older orders. That would really #### me off. Vans dont make lycoming engines and the order and price at the time were accepted by lycoming....so it should not change.

I don’t disagree, I too have and engine on order since March 2022. What does Vans ante up with? It’s literally gone. I can send the balance but that’s only 75% of the cost. Lycoming wants ALL the money, not sure where it would come from unless it’s me.

Faced with having to be the one to re-ante the deposit I’ll just walk. I’m not throwing good money after bad just because Vans mismanaged my deposit money. Lycoming will not get a sale. I’ll go elsewhere and get a Superior engine I guess.

 

[bmellis11]

How is that exactly? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand how that is the case here.

Equity typically loses their ownership and investment in bankruptcy, but I don't think that's going to be the case here. The financials show that Van pulled almost all of the profits out of the business over the years. He's also the senior secured creditor, which means he gets paid before any other creditors. He only has about $200k tied up in the company that is not a secured claim. If this were to go Chapter 7 and liquidate, then there are enough assets to liquidate to pay all of his claims, but there wouldn't be much left for the customers. If Van's successfully emerges from Chapter 11, then Van will likely keep his stock because this is a subchapter V case and it's designed to allow him to do that. He also would likely keep it in a normal Chapter 11 case because he's the DIP lender. Basically, this was played in a way that Van basically comes out whole no matter what. I have to just trust that he is a good guy and wants his customers to come out almost whole as well.

 

[BobTurner]

How is that exactly? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand how that is the case here.

Sorry, this is a bit off topic. I was replying to the previous post drawing an analogy to airline bankruptcies.

 

[sailvi767]

Well, of course, the owners - the stock holders - lost all of their investment, too.

True, however normally a companies stock is down to near zero prior to a chapter 11 filing. Stockholders get little to no consideration from the court. Been there, done that and have the T shirt!

 

[ty1295]

Being the plan for engine and prop orders has not been public yet (that I have seen), I am giving Van's the benefit of the doubt they will make it right. Of course it may not go that way either, but we don't know yet.

 

[Cessnadog]

Jeff, I agree.
I think the fact that the plan has not been announced for the engines (vs a clear plan for kits) is likely a good thing. I don’t love the price increase for my remaining kits, but I get it and I need Van’s to survive (and thrive).

That said, I would REALLY like to know the plan on engines before I commit on my kit price increase. It would frankly be a kick in the teeth to agree to the price increase and then be told I had a similar situation on the engine.

Put another way, I am currently a cheerleader for Van’s. I want and expect them to succeed and will put my money in on my kits to help with that. But, if they tell me that somehow the price that they clearly had locked in with Lycoming is now going to go up I will seriously consider walking away from Van’s and finding a different kit to build. Even if I don’t (due to how far in I am) i wouldn’t ever be able to recommend that someone else ever do business with them. I don’t think it will come to that. I sure hope I’m right.

Van’s should have been making at least a few bucks on each engine. Let’s assume for a minute that a typical engine was $40k. That would make the deposit $10k. If Van’s margin was $5k then they “only” need to come up with $5k per engine to pay Lycoming. For the record, I have NO IDEA what Van’s margin was. I will note that the short term budget that Van’s submitted to the court showed $180k over the next 13 weeks with the line item being something like “honoring Lycoming deposits”. Anyone know how many engines Lycoming is sending out per week?

 

[Mark Dickens]

Notwithstanding the comments about the costs (which I believe are legitimate points), I couldn't agree more with the other business conduct points. I've been agonizing over whether to continue my RV-14 project. I have a barely started tail kit and a deposit on a QB fuselage. At 67, I'm not anxious to bet even more money on Vans. They have totally lost my trust. I am a former CPA, financial auditor, and 20+ year small business owner. As such I have certain views about how ethical business is to be conducted and Vans conduct is far away from those standards. They have been stealing deposits for years, the music stopped as it always does. There's the old saying that if something can't continue, it won't continue and Vans is just the latest illustration of that truth.

So, the offer on hand is to send them more money which will theoretically be deposited (there's that word again) in a special account and "protected" from the grubby fingers of management. Is the "protection" legally backed up? Are you guaranteed to get your money back if things go south again? Who keeps the interest on those deposits, now that interest rates are at decent level? If prices go up, you either pay more, or abandon your "deposit"? How credulous would you have to be to do a deal like that?

 

[Cholley6]

I guess I'm missing something. I understand that new orders are going up by roughly 32% and that store parts have gone up by more. But does anyone actually have hard evidence (contact from Van's) as to what the renegotiated terms of kits already on order will be? I'm not happy with the situation either, but I would like to see what the new terms will be before I jump to conclusions.

As for the people that were requested to finish paying for kits just before the chapter 11 started. I find it hard to believe that management had told the rest of the employees what was about to happen. My guess is that the daily employees were caught off guard just as much as we were. To them it was probably business as usual right up until the shutdown.

 

[tahoebob]

Notwithstanding the comments about the costs (which I believe are legitimate points), I couldn't agree more with the other business conduct points. I've been agonizing over whether to continue my RV-14 project. I have a barely started tail kit and a deposit on a QB fuselage. At 67, I'm not anxious to bet even more money on Vans. They have totally lost my trust. I am a former CPA, financial auditor, and 20+ year small business owner. As such I have certain views about how ethical business is to be conducted and Vans conduct is far away from those standards. They have been stealing deposits for years, the music stopped as it always does. There's the old saying that if something can't continue, it won't continue and Vans is just the latest illustration of that truth.

So, the offer on hand is to send them more money which will theoretically be deposited (there's that word again) in a special account and "protected" from the grubby fingers of management. Is the "protection" legally backed up? Are you guaranteed to get your money back if things go south again? Who keeps the interest on those deposits, now that interest rates are at decent level? If prices go up, you either pay more, or abandon your "deposit"? How credulous would you have to be to do a deal like that?

Mark, you've clearly articulated the feelings and concerns that I've had since the dominos started falling with Van's ambivalence about laser cut parts.
I'm at the same stage in my build and just a little younger (63). I want to still be young enough to enjoy flying my plane after I've built it! With an RV-14A empennage kit that I've slow rolled on since I received it in October 2022, first because of life events, and then because of LCP issues, I'm still undecided how to proceed, but I'm leaning more every day toward a different kit manufacturer.
While the price hikes are frustrating, I can understand the need. However, the lack of any communicated plan or schedule for LCP replacement (47 parts are LCP in my emp kit), and the absence of any stable schedule for future kit delivery makes me grateful (and my wife happy) that I did not put deposits down on the other kits yet. The latest lead time announcement (https://www.vansaircraft.com/order-a-kit/kit-prices-and-lead-times/) on their pricing page does not give me optimism of maintaining a consistent build schedule to finish my plane in my 60's without taking a huge leap of faith (and a big chunk of cash, which would not keep my wife happy...) and ordering all the other kits simultaneously when they start taking orders again.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

why should lycoming charge more? they are not in chapter 11 and Vans don't set the lycoming price do they. They just need to ante up your deposit to Lycoming and lycoming accepted your order (i have an email from lycoming about pushing my order out so they know about it). any attempt to up the price from a third party is clipping the ticket or giving oncoming an excuse to "reset" the price for those older orders. That would really #### me off. Vans dont make lycoming engines and the order and price at the time were accepted by lycoming....so it should not change.

It is called mark up. Lycs direct from Vans were a bargain. Van marked it up slightly to not at all.... Likely lost money. That is how they got into trouble charging too little for everything to everyone; we got use to Van's bargains and value.

Lyc is also in trouble with lasting effects of pandemic supply chain, surge in demand, some QC issues. Try and order parts from Lyc. Our flying clubs C152 has a O235 jug on back order 2 years!!!! The club ordered it a yr ago as spare, still waiting. Annual started 2 mos ago. One jug is toast. Found s core. Local shop is OH'ing. 8 week turn around. They are also backed up. Just hot it back. One flight school has 6 plsnes down due to engine part shortag. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If the club could have bought a new O235 Jug they would have paid double.

Really you have a world of choices for engines outside Vans and a New Lyc. The list is long. In the day and what I did was buy core and OH it. I did that just as the the boom of Lyc Clones and cheap new engeins in low mid $20K's started. +20 years ago.

Then New engines were so cheap, from Vans or other clone engine companies (fewer today than in past) it made sense to buy new. BTW for those who don't know; a Clone are Lycs made of PMA parts... PMA are parts that FAA approves as same and interchangeable with Factory OEM parts. Those parts have proved to be mostly as good with a few exceptions like a bad batch of crankshafts few years back. ECI also had a bad cylinder they sold. ECI was sold and no longer. Lyc has had hiccups as well. NEW is not always unilaterally.better. If you have the money buying new engines is still good wven at highr price. It's just not the bargain it once was. I go to the grocery and pay $50 for what I once paid $30 for.

However the most common engine source for Kit Plane builders up until the 90's was used for decade. Post 2019 abd current inflation it is coming back to looking at used engines again.... However parts and repair station cost are higher now as well. To save cost you have to be willing, able to tear it down and assemble. Lyc offers a class in teardown and build. Up of Lycs.. Having done it once with help, I'd do it again. Special tools are needed but not expensive. Don't skimp on tools. However some expensive Lyc tools are found at fraction of price aftermarket or can be fabricated, like torque plates.

My RV7 has a O360A1A 180HP I bought used, 600 hrs since OH and 2600 TT with logs. With help from repair stations for component inspection refurb, me and A&P / AI friend went through whole enigine. Cost total about $10K O360-A1A. About $4K for Carb OH, Prop Gov, Fuel pump, Nippon Denso Alternator and Previously owned Dual P-Mags and new harness. Add $500 for custom SS 4 into 1 headers I had moked up abd fabricated w/ help. Cost today guess $1200 to $1800.. Add $2500 for used hartzell CS prop I bought. You get the picture. Bargain hunt and sweat equity.

You don't need to get TOP O LINE new turn key IO390 with every option.

RV's fly nice with O320 160HP, Carb, Magentos, and wood or metal fixed prop. Very light, plenty power, simple installation bullet proof simplicity. RV14 was designed for heavier angle valve 200HP engines. 160HP or 180HP might not be ideal for weight and balance. IO360 200HP are around used. To me 18phl is perfect, weight, car cas capable 8.5:1 compression.

RV10 six jug 540's can be found used, cores or serviceable airworty..

 

[gmcjetpilot]

why should lycoming charge more? they are not in chapter 11 and Vans don't set the lycoming price do they. They just need to ante up your deposit to Lycoming and lycoming accepted your order (i have an email from lycoming about pushing my order out so they know about it). any attempt to up the price from a third party is clipping the ticket or giving oncoming an excuse to "reset" the price for those older orders. That would really #### me off. Vans dont make lycoming engines and the order and price at the time were accepted by lycoming....so it should not change.

It is called mark up. Lycs direct from Vans were a bargain. Van marked it up slightly to not at all.... Likely lost money. That is how they got into trouble charging too little for everything to everyone; we got use to Van's bargains and value.

Lyc is also in trouble with lasting effects of pandemic supply chain, surge in demand, some QC issues. Try and order parts from Lyc. Our flying clubs C152 has a O235 jug on back order 2 years!!!! The club ordered it a yr ago as spare, still waiting. Annual started 2 mos ago. One jug is toast. Found s core. Local shop is OH'ing. 8 week turn around. They are also backed up. Just hot it back. One flight school has 6 plsnes down due to engine part shortag. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If the club could have bought a new O235 Jug they would have paid double.

Really you have a world of choices for engines outside Vans and a New Lyc. The list is long. In the day and what I did was buy core and OH it. I did that just as the the boom of Lyc Clones and cheap new engeins in low mid $20K's started. +20 years ago.

Then New engines were so cheap, from Vans or other clone engine companies (fewer today than in past) it made sense to buy new. BTW for those who don't know; a Clone are Lycs made of PMA parts... PMA are parts that FAA approves as same and interchangeable with Factory OEM parts. Those parts have proved to be mostly as good with a few exceptions like a bad batch of crankshafts few years back. ECI also had a bad cylinder they sold. ECI was sold and no longer. Lyc has had hiccups as well. NEW is not always unilaterally.better. If you have the money buying new engines is still good wven at highr price. It's just not the bargain it once was. I go to the grocery and pay $50 for what I once paid $30 for.

However the most common engine source for Kit Plane builders up until the 90's was used for decade. Post 2019 abd current inflation it is coming back to looking at used engines again.... However parts and repair station cost are higher now as well. To save cost you have to be willing, able to tear it down and assemble. Lyc offers a class in teardown and build. Up of Lycs.. Having done it once with help, I'd do it again. Special tools are needed but not expensive. Don't skimp on tools. However some expensive Lyc tools are found at fraction of price aftermarket or can be fabricated, like torque plates.

My RV7 has a O360A1A 180HP I bought used, 600 hrs since OH and 2600 TT with logs. With help from repair stations for component inspection refurb, me and A&P / AI friend went through whole enigine. Cost total about $10K O360-A1A. About $4K for Carb OH, Prop Gov, Fuel pump, Nippon Denso Alternator and Previously owned Dual P-Mags and new harness. Add $500 for custom SS 4 into 1 headers I mocked up and fabricated w/ help. Cost today guess $1800.. Add $2500 for used hartzell CS prop I bought. You get the picture. Bargain hunt and sweat equity.

You don't need to get TOP O LINE new turn key IO390 with every option.

RV's fly nice with O320 160HP, Carb, Magentos, and wood or metal fixed prop. Very light, plenty power, simple installation bullet proof simplicity. RV14 was designed for heavier angle valve 200HP engines. 160HP or 180HP might not be ideal for weight and balance. IO360 200HP are around used. To me 180hp O360 is perfect, weight, auto/mo gas capable w/ 8.5:1 compression.

RV10 six jug 540's can be found used, cores or serviceable airworty..