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ermed5

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Hello all. Perhaps the minds of many can help. My O-320 had a sudden power loss about 2 months ago at altitude... twice! Was returning to my home base at 3500ft, and it was like someone pulled the throttle back to idle (like a practice engine out). Engine did not quit or sputter. Stayed at low idle for about 20-30 seconds (seemed like hours!), and then returned to cruise power on its own. YIKES. Was heading back to my home base anyway, and about 10-15 miles out, it did it again... maybe 15-20 seconds of the same power loss, then returned to cruise RPM. By that time, I was close enough to the airport and made an uneventful landing. Of course, during the panic, I didn't have time to check the abundance of info on my Dynon screens... too busy trying to find a place to land.
Since then, we have removed and repaired the carb (no discrepancies found and bench checked fine), fuel flow was slightly low, so replaced the fuel sender module to the Dynon (now a bit higher), drained all tanks and gascolator (no gunk), replaced fuel pump with new, but did find that both Andair fuel check valves in the wingtips had come undone and were just freely running around (probably had been like that for a while... some of the lines were dry/cracked/brittle). Fuel caps are NOT vented. Fixed the Andair vent lines. I assume a fuel issue/starvation would lead to engine roughness... not a smooth loss of power. Readjusted carb. I've been up for a few rides around the pattern since, with great hesitation. No power losses like that one day, but RPM's vary... sometimes up and down 20-40-50 rpm, intermittently, and can notice the engine noise change. Thinking of replacing the throttle cable next. Someone mentioned the airbox... possibly hose connecting airbox to intake getting squished (in a tight cowl?). Someone else mentioned "air, fuel, electric". I threw out a crummy Brackett air filter and put in a K+N. I do have dual EFII electronic ignitions, and those are working fine... so assume 'electric' has been ruled out. Fuel flow is good (lines drained well... no water), so maybe that's out too. Air?
My mechanics and I are baffled. I do have a throttle friction lock, and it was tight. But I still see these minimal RPM variations. What are we missing?
I am am hesitant to make any trips until this resolves.
Any thoughts/comments/ideas will be most welcomed. Thanks!
 
Just curious - was carb ice considered? I experienced something very similar to what you describe while flying a 150 some time ago and it took me far too long to pull the carb heat because it was such a sunny day. Carb heat totally cleared everything up.
 
Hello all. Perhaps the minds of many can help. My O-320 had a sudden power loss about 2 months ago at altitude... twice! Was returning to my home base at 3500ft, and it was like someone pulled the throttle back to idle (like a practice engine out). Engine did not quit or sputter. Stayed at low idle for about 20-30 seconds (seemed like hours!), and then returned to cruise power on its own. YIKES. Was heading back to my home base anyway, and about 10-15 miles out, it did it again... maybe 15-20 seconds of the same power loss, then returned to cruise RPM. By that time, I was close enough to the airport and made an uneventful landing. Of course, during the panic, I didn't have time to check the abundance of info on my Dynon screens... too busy trying to find a place to land.
Since then, we have removed and repaired the carb (no discrepancies found and bench checked fine), fuel flow was slightly low, so replaced the fuel sender module to the Dynon (now a bit higher), drained all tanks and gascolator (no gunk), replaced fuel pump with new, but did find that both Andair fuel check valves in the wingtips had come undone and were just freely running around (probably had been like that for a while... some of the lines were dry/cracked/brittle). Fuel caps are NOT vented. Fixed the Andair vent lines. I assume a fuel issue/starvation would lead to engine roughness... not a smooth loss of power. Readjusted carb. I've been up for a few rides around the pattern since, with great hesitation. No power losses like that one day, but RPM's vary... sometimes up and down 20-40-50 rpm, intermittently, and can notice the engine noise change. Thinking of replacing the throttle cable next. Someone mentioned the airbox... possibly hose connecting airbox to intake getting squished (in a tight cowl?). Someone else mentioned "air, fuel, electric". I threw out a crummy Brackett air filter and put in a K+N. I do have dual EFII electronic ignitions, and those are working fine... so assume 'electric' has been ruled out. Fuel flow is good (lines drained well... no water), so maybe that's out too. Air?
My mechanics and I are baffled. I do have a throttle friction lock, and it was tight. But I still see these minimal RPM variations. What are we missing?
I am am hesitant to make any trips until this resolves.
Any thoughts/comments/ideas will be most welcomed. Thanks!
What airplane?
 
So, sounds like you have Dynon engine monitoring...
So you should be able to pull the data from the Dynon, upload to Savvy, then share with us.
The logging might give some insights versus us all doing wild educated guesses.
 
That is a symptom of a failing or improperly assembled hose. Replace the hoses forward of the firewall. Firewall to pump and pump to carb.
 
Which fuel pump replaced , boost, engine driven?
What the heck are check valves on vent line for? Could be the tank you were running on have the VENT blocked momentarily, no vent no proper flow, it self corrected itself 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
Which fuel pump replaced , boost, engine driven?
What the heck are check valves on vent line for? Could be the tank you were running on have the VENT blocked momentarily, no vent no proper flow, it self corrected itself 🤷🏼‍♂️
I had carb ice on a c-60 work truck in Miami on a 90º day at sea level... I was driving along (aggressively, admitted) and suddenly lost power. I jumped out of the truck, spun the wing nut off of the air cleaner, and I looked down the carb throat just in time to see the circle of ice fall into the rather hot engine's intake manifold.
Apply carb heat at the first indication of unexplained engine power loss regardless of ambient weather conditions.

Had I not seen it, I would have never believed it and I would have had an unexplained mystery...

1713470537809.png
 
I had carb ice on a c-60 work truck in Miami on a 90º day at sea level... I was driving along (aggressively, admitted) and suddenly lost power. I jumped out of the truck, spun the wing nut off of the air cleaner, and I looked down the carb throat just in time to see the circle of ice fall into the rather hot engine's intake manifold.
Apply carb heat at the first indication of unexplained engine power loss regardless of ambient weather conditions.

Had I not seen it, I would have never believed it and I would have had an unexplained mystery...

I had carb ice on a c-60 work truck in Miami on a 90º day at sea level... I was driving along (aggressively, admitted) and suddenly lost power. I jumped out of the truck, spun the wing nut off of the air cleaner, and I looked down the carb throat just in time to see the circle of ice fall into the rather hot engine's intake manifold.
Apply carb heat at the first indication of unexplained engine power loss regardless of ambient weather conditions.

Had I not seen it, I would have never believed it and I would have had an unexplained mystery...

View attachment 60928
OP stated at altitude, likely at cruise. Not thinking an environment for carb ice , unless I icing conditions, and ya got bigger problems.
 
Carb ice, blocked fuel vent, water in tank, clogged fuel line, primer line lose.

That’s where I’d start.
 
Just curious - was carb ice considered? I experienced something very similar to what you describe while flying a 150 some time ago and it took me far too long to pull the carb heat because it was such a sunny day. Carb heat totally cleared everything up.
It was a sunny day, not humid, but then carb ice can occur on a nice day, too. Could this have been carb ice? Possibly. I did pull the carb heat... but in my 40 + yrs of flying, never had such a dramatic engine issue... was a bit on the panicky side...rightfully so!!!!
 
So, sounds like you have Dynon engine monitoring...
So you should be able to pull the data from the Dynon, upload to Savvy, then share with us.
The logging might give some insights versus us all doing wild educated guesses.
I did DL all engine info and sent it to Dynon... but they only said they saw an engine interruption and nothing more.
 
Which fuel pump replaced , boost, engine driven?
What the heck are check valves on vent line for? Could be the tank you were running on have the VENT blocked momentarily, no vent no proper flow, it self corrected itself 🤷🏼‍♂️
This only has an engine driven pump... no boost pump. Check valves are for fuel tank venting.
 
I did DL all engine info and sent it to Dynon... but they only said they saw an engine interruption and nothing more.
Is Dynon in the business of engine data analysis? News to me. You can create a FREE account on Savvy Analysis, which will allow you to plot all the engine data... and then you can post photos of the plots here. Or for a fee, you can have Savvy look at the data and help you diagnose what happened, what to check. For a pretty fair fee ($450 for unlimited Q&A for a year) given A&P rates lately.

For example, someone shared a graph in this post https://vansairforce.net/threads/help-one-high-egt.170035/

What we'd be looking for... fuel pressure aberrations prior to seeing rpm loss.
Any deviations in EGT prior to the rpm loss...
OAT, Carb Temp, (if you have the sensors installed)

This may depend on sample logging rate. The default on the JPI units is 6 seconds, and the sample rate may be too slow to show cause/effect.
I *think* I recall Dynon HDX samples at 2 seconds?
 
This only has an engine driven pump... no boost pump. Check valves are for fuel tank venting.
Never seen the check valves on RV vent lines….just something to fail and stop fuel flow. Id strongly recommend you ditch them. What is suppose to be their valve? No boost pump, another never heard a low wing RV not having a boost pump. Engine pump fails and you have an off airport landing. Good luck…. Seems OP has yet to tell us model RV asked in 3rd post. Ya want assistance, ya gotta answer questions asked. Moving on
 
Never seen the check valves on RV vent lines….just something to fail and stop fuel flow. Id strongly recommend you ditch them. What is suppose to be their valve? No boost pump, another never heard a low wing RV not having a boost pump. Engine pump fails and you have an off airport landing. Good luck…. Seems OP has yet to tell us model RV asked in 3rd post. Ya want assistance, ya gotta answer questions asked. Moving on
It is not an RV. It is a Glastar, that is a Glasair model. See post #11. Maybe OP can get a more relevant response in the Glasair forum than in the RV forum?
 
It is not an RV. It is a Glastar, that is a Glasair model. See post #11. Maybe OP can get a more relevant response in the Glasair forum than in the RV forum?

That would be the most appropriate option for the original poster. Thread closed.
 
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