what does Experimental really mean....FAA problem

[hydroguy2]

So I met with FAA today. The airworthiness inspection started off badly when he ask for the list of AD's for my engine and the entries showing compliance.

Overall, he liked most everything. BUT said I need to do the following

1. placard the static ports
2. didn't like the EXPERIMENTAL decal on the rollbar. said it needed to be visible at all times. but I talked him into allowing it's placement as it is visible to everybody entering the plane.
3. My oil cooler installation wasn't finished, so I need to finish fitting a cover over the standoff.

AND the BIGGIE which kept him from issuing my airworthiness cert.

I had not shown him compliance with the AD's for my engine. I said it's experimental. His response was your logbook shows all Factory parts were used so I must have compliance. I said it's a IO-360 B1X, no AD's apply. He said I have no authorization to change the dataplate to read B1X. AAaargh!

I tried to make my point that if I (non A&P) scooped up parts from a garage and built an engine it would not be able to have a factory data plate. It is experimental. He resisted this line of thought, saying my builder had listed all the parts and since they are Lycoming parts I have to have a Lycoming data plate. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he'll get back to me on Monday.

I need a break.

[Toobuilder]

I suspect there will be no way to educate the guy. Find a new inspector.

[Mel]

Well, It looks like you have a problem. There is nothing anywhere, that I know of, that says you cannot build an experimental engine with Lycoming parts.
I would ask to speak to the inspector's supervisor.

[F1Boss]

Originally Posted by Mel

Well, It looks like you have a problem. There is nothing anywhere, that I know of, that says you cannot build an experimental engine with Lycoming parts.
I would ask to speak to the inspector's supervisor.

Well, maybe save that as Step 2, tho Ol' Mel knows his business, obviously better then this other fella knows his. In your nicest voice, ask this person to cite the exact FAR that requires you to comply with the ADs on that particular experimental engine. Tell him if he shows it to you, you then understand the game at hand, and will GLADLY comply. If there is nothing for him to cite, then you obviously don't have to comply WITH HIS OPINION OF THE RULES. If he resists the logic of truth and facts, THEN go over his empty head.

Expect a 40 hour fly-off period.

Remember to never argue with the ignorant. They will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

Let us all know how this particular dam job turns out!

Carry on!
Mark

[guccidude1]

Brian: First word of advice: Don't poke the bear. Your best bet is to get your local EAA chapter Tech Advisor in the mix. I had a similar but situation, only different. My FSDO guy wanted me to remove and destroy the data plate on my O-360-A4M (no certified engines on an experimental). The Tech Advisor showed him where removing the data plate indicated an engine no longer in service and required sending it back to Lycoming. He did not like the location of my Experimental placard either, sewn on the upholstery in the baggage compartment (-9A). Don't argue, just politely ask to see the documentation for his requests so that you can email the new FAA requirements to your thousands of brothers and sisters building RVs in all the FSDO Offices in the 50 states. Explain to your inspector you want to give them a heads up so if their FSDO/ABDAR misses these items, this is what you inspector (name) and FSDO Office (name) says the FAA requires to get an airworthiness certificate. Good luck, Dan

[Ironflight]

Mark has an excellent approach, and I would take it. The problem you now have is that the FAA fellow has stated his opinion, and at this point, he has no incentive whatsoever to change it. If he does change it, he will have to admit that he made a mistake, and unless he is very secure, he might not like to do that. I had a similar problem with the Houston FSDO years ago when I was applying some STC's to a certified aircraft, and I realized that I was just stuck - the FAA inspector had no incentive whatsoever to help me, and therefore, he didn't. I even went to his supervisors (and at the time, I knew the head of the whole shebang in D.C., having launched him in to space once or twice - but even that didn't help - political appointees are pretty powerless when dealing with the career guys...) and they refused to admit that the fellow had made a mistake, as it would have made them look bad.

All this is why I went with a DAR for my experimental work. Some FSDO's are far better than what I experienced here in Houston of course, but I refused to go in top the fire again, having been burned once.

Paul

[Mike S]

EAA, but not only the local tech adviser, go straight to EAA national. You will probably not be the first to do so for this kind of issue, and they should already have the answers you need.

I am of course, making the assumption you are an EAA member.......

[Mike S]

By the way, even though there is a slight hiccup in there, congrats on the inspection

[hydroguy2]

I'm sure things will get straightened out, but at the moment I'm a little nauseous. I was polite and told him I don't understand and would like to see where it says what I have to do. He said he needed to do some research and would get back to me next week.

And yes I'm an EAA member....isn't everyone? It should be mandatory for all builders.

[Andy_RR]

Originally Posted by hydroguy2

And yes I'm an EAA member....isn't everyone? It should be mandatory for all builders.

Definitely not! I want to be an EAA member because it's a great idea, not because someone told me I had to be!