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  #31  
Old 09-21-2010, 11:48 AM
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FresnoR FresnoR is offline
 
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Location: Fresno, CA
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I am ok with those semantics:

“We are not looking to replace a defective nosewheel design, or replace it for everyone, we are looking to provide a more robust option for less than ideal terrain for those that may wish to have it.”
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Last edited by FresnoR : 09-21-2010 at 11:50 AM.
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  #32  
Old 09-21-2010, 12:41 PM
WAM120RV WAM120RV is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coventry. England
Posts: 614
Default UK nose gear design

Here is one we have designed in the UK. It needs testing and I am willing to do that on my RV9, but I need an undrilled nose wheel spring as I dont want to cut my own in case we have to revert to the old set up. If anyone has a spring available let me know.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1809/27012010311.jpg
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  #33  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:01 PM
TOAD TOAD is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 114
Default I'm in

I will vote with my money if Vans will not take this on. I would prefer however that Vans take on the job and suspect that they may already be doing this. To be realistic how could Van's acknowledge a problem without risking liability? I would not expect them to do so. They may however come out with a new design as has been my past experience.

When I asked about the new gear leg on my 7-A, and if I could replace it with the new one with better ground clearance, I was told by Vans that this was not really a problem. The profile of the wheel and wheel pant remained the same. The new designed fork was only a weight saving improvement thing. Later they came out with the suggested fix.

The wheel pant profile argument is that the wheel pant has to be destroyed before the nut can dig into the ground and be a factor. But this is exactly what was, and still is happening, even with the new fork. To me it appears that the nose wheel is already starting to tuck under to allow the wheel pant to be destroyed and for the nut to start digging in. The gear at that point has flexed too far already. If you do not think this is a problem that is your prerogative. Have you not watched the post-game films? I think that the evidence is that the pole vault pilots were and are good pilots. It is not the case of botched landings or needing more training. I feel that I am susceptible to joining those of the pole vaulting club with the existing gear leg.

New builders deserve better. I do not consider myself a timid person, but like some others here, I will not land on grass in my RV-7A. I fly my Citabria in the mountains and land the back strips, but can not bring myself to land on a grass strip with the 7A without having walked it first. The trust is not there. I think I am being a smart pilot to follow my instincts. They have served me pretty well so far. Keep off the grass.

Count me in for support for a better design. I think we need it. Meanwhile expect me to only land on paved runways, or look for me to be converting to tail wheel after I get inverted oil installed, and a smoke system put in. I am catching up on my projects again.
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  #34  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:17 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Same here, I'll vote with my checkbook. I'm not looking for a "fix", I'm looking for an "unimproved runway nosegear option".
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Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #35  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:19 PM
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RV7Ron RV7Ron is offline
 
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Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 590
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I dont really have a horse in this race as I'm building a -7. But as an Engineer, I think Van's designed the nose gear for the mission of the aircraft. (Keep in mind, I have not done any Engineering analysis of the design and my opinions are based on just visual inspection of the design) Its a cost effective, lightweight sport aircraft and is not specifically designed for operating out of rough strips. If I'm the design Engineer and I have that mission criteria I probably would have come up with something very similar to what Van's did. From the reports I have read, I dont think it is a problem for the mission it is intended for. No disrespect to those that do, thats just my .02

Keep in mind, with any design, there are trade-offs. You can beef up the nose gear--maybe with more expensive/exotic materials and/or adding weight. Whats the trade-off? Its more expensive and/or weighs more.

That leads to reduced performance and less useful load. Although I dont design aircraft I know that with aircraft design, the trade-offs are extremely important to accomplish the mission goals. Will you as the owner accept less useful load (less baggage? less fuel?) or a more expensive airframe for a stronger nose gear? Maybe this would be ok for some but certainly not for others. You cant make everyone happy, this aircraft may not be perfect but it fills most 'wants and desires' of its owners.

With all that being said, I havent seen a 'perfect' design yet...I always like to think there are ways to improve with enough imagination. Could someone come up with a stronger nose gear design without adding weight, complexity or cost? Maybe?...maybe not? Its not easy. Just understand what you're up against if you hire someone. An independent Engineer may come to the conclusion that he cant do it any better...thats a real possibility.
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Last edited by RV7Ron : 09-21-2010 at 01:29 PM.
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  #36  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:58 PM
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647jc 647jc is offline
 
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Location: Ankeny, Iowa
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Perhaps another possible solution to this problem rather than a stronger gear would be one that fails in a safer mode. If when the nose gear collapses rather than acting as a spring board flipping the airplane over on its back, it would simply break off, that would be a much safer scenario. The plane in many instances would simply end up embarrassingly on its mains with its nose in the dirt, a bent prop and probably a damaged engine but at least the airplane would not be a total loss and the occupants would not be trapped in the wreckage, possibly requiring medical attention or worse.
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Last edited by 647jc : 09-21-2010 at 03:05 PM.
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:54 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7Ron View Post
Its a cost effective, lightweight sport aircraft and is not specifically designed for operating out of rough strips.
I would agree with this except Van designed it and demonstrated it many times on his home field, which I understand is a short, grass strip. It's even been said that the -A models are better short field performers because they can rotate to a higher AOA on landing without smacking the tail... Although I don't know if that was a Van's position or just some other person's opinion.
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  #38  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:03 PM
ErichKeane ErichKeane is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hillboro, OR
Posts: 167
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I have been keeping close attention to these threads, and was pretty interested.

Where I am building my -12, there is a -6A next door that i take a look pretty often. One of the things I noticed is that the RV-12 has a much more 'robust' nose gear/wheel.

Perhaps the -12 gear could be looked into as a low-cost alternative, or at least a situation where the engineering has already been done, and can be used to modify the A models?
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  #39  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:33 PM
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N200PF N200PF is offline
 
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Location: North Oaks, MN
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I've heard that some people have solved the problem by taking the nose wheel and putting it on the tail of the airplane. Could you imagine? That's just CRAZINESS!!!

I'm so sorry! I just couldn't resist! It's my duty as a tailwheel driver... Can someone please forgive me?

- Peter
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  #40  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:44 PM
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LifeofReiley LifeofReiley is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
I would agree with this except Van designed it and demonstrated it many times on his home field, which I understand is a short, grass strip. It's even been said that the -A models are better short field performers because they can rotate to a higher AOA on landing without smacking the tail... Although I don't know if that was a Van's position or just some other person's opinion.
I agree also... 10's of 1000's of landings with "A" models have been performed on grass strips, it happens everyday. And, no the "A" model RV's is not for just any flyer/pilot. And, yes if you make the decision to land on a very rough un-maintained grass strip well YOU made that decision. The gear as designed works and functions well. Can it be heavier and made super beefy? Well yes. Not for me.

I will also hint this... Jack your "A" model plane up and totally level the plane... all axis perfect level flight about 2 inches off the floor. Then with the nose fairing off the plane, take a digital level and check your nose wheel and fork dead straight and centered on both sides. I'm interested in hearing some results. Mine is fixed now. There may be an issue, but I not blaming it on the nose gear leg.
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