RV-6 Egress if UpsideDown

charlie grba · #1 02-20-2006, 05:30 PM

Would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on how they would egress should they find themselves upside down on the gound in a RV.

Has anyone heard of RV's ending up wrong side up? If so, how common of an event is it?

Was also wondering if anyone carries any type of tool which would enable them to cut their way out? If so, where would you try to exit?

Thanks,

Charlie

sprucemoose · #2 02-20-2006, 08:01 PM

Having a -6 tip-up, I've thought about this long and hard. My conclusion is that there is no way to get the canopy of a tip-up (or a slider for that matter) open if it were upright. With that in mind I carry a small backpacking axe right next to the fire extinguisher, for just such egress emergencies.

I think the best way out is through the side skin, between the 604 and 605 bulkhead, between the longeron and the seat pan (where the armrest is.) There is a relatively large area which could be hacked out with an axe in short order. An additional, though very much secondary benefit, is that replacing the side skin would likely be easier than replacing a canopy.

Mel · #3 02-20-2006, 08:09 PM

There have been several RVs end up inverted. The easiest way out is to break the plexiglass. It's not that easy, but it's not all that hard either. None of the RV canopies can be opened under these circumstances, tip-up, slider, or tip-over.
Mel...DAR

pierre smith · #4 02-21-2006, 05:06 AM

A couple of years ago I asked the same question about upside down egress. I also asked whether or not the slider can be opened at a slow airspeed, like 65 or 70 MPH or if it can be jettisoned if it had removable front canopy pins instead of the bolted on rollers. It would really be nice to jettison or open the canopy shortly before impact/landing whether in trees or an ocean or muddy field. I'd appreciate answers.
I'd even be willing to participate in paying someone to demonstrate opening the canopy in flight, in case it's lost/broken or deformed, to compensate them for any loss. Any takers or is this request too weird?
Pierre

rv8ch · #5 02-21-2006, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierre smith

A couple of years ago I asked the same question about upside down egress. I also asked whether or not the slider can be opened at a slow airspeed, like 65 or 70 MPH or if it can be jettisoned if it had removable front canopy pins instead of the bolted on rollers. It would really be nice to jettison or open the canopy shortly before impact/landing whether in trees or an ocean or muddy field. I'd appreciate answers.
I'd even be willing to participate in paying someone to demonstrate opening the canopy in flight, in case it's lost/broken or deformed, to compensate them for any loss. Any takers or is this request too weird?

I'm sure there is a way to jettison the canopy, but unless you are planning to egress right away, with a parachute, my intuition tells me that it would be best to keep the canopy on until the aircraft has stopped. The canopy will provide you a lot of protection while the airplane is tumbling on the ground, and keep you inside. Once stopped, if you are alive and conscious, you can start hacking on the canopy with a survival knife, an escape hammer, or one of those control sticks that are easy to remove, and have a nice sharp point.

I'm not aware of anyone that has died in an RV accident due to not being able to get out of the cockpit. It is possible, of course, and perhaps it has happened, but I have never read of any accidents like this.

Here's a detailed story written by Frank Eldridge Jr. detailing how he escaped from his RV6A after a forced landing and subsequent flip over.

http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20051007163110721

Dgamble · #6 02-21-2006, 06:40 AM

I've been wondering if I really need the canopy release that my tip-up 6 has. I simply can't see any benefit to having it, but I can see a possible downside in that it could accidentally get pulled. It's taking up panel space, too.

Is there any reason to keep it when I re-do the panel?

Mel · #7 02-21-2006, 07:26 AM

Dave,
There is a definite advantage to installing the canopy release, even if you do not intend to jettisson in flight. Any time you need to do extensive work behind the panel, it is much easier to do with the canopy removed. These are experimental airplanes and few of them are ever really "finished". We are always adding to or moving stuff around on the instrument panel. I have removed my canopy several times in the last 13 years (in the hangar). As far as accidently pulling the jettisson in flight, if you don't intend to use it in flight then put it straight down under the panel where it is not accessable in flight. I've done this on several -9s. Even if the handle is through the panel as per the plans, you have to pull it quite far to release. I can't imagine anyone being able to pull it all the way without the pilot being able to stop them.
Mel...DAR

Rick6a · #8 02-21-2006, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie grba

Would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on how they would egress should they find themselves upside down on the gound in a RV........ wondering if anyone carries any type of tool which would enable them to cut their way out?............

On my RV, the passenger side removable joystick also serves as this simple device I sincerely hope I never have occasion to use! http://tinyurl.com/e8kpt

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla

Dgamble · #9 02-21-2006, 09:05 AM

Yes, I can see the utility of having it to remove the canopy for maintenance reasons. I think I'll look into simply re-locating it to a less accessible spot as you suggest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel

Dave,
There is a definite advantage to installing the canopy release, even if you do not intend to jettisson in flight. Any time you need to do extensive work behind the panel, it is much easier to do with the canopy removed. These are experimental airplanes and few of them are ever really "finished". We are always adding to or moving stuff around on the instrument panel. I have removed my canopy several times in the last 13 years (in the hangar). As far as accidently pulling the jettisson in flight, if you don't intend to use it in flight then put it straight down under the panel where it is not accessable in flight. I've done this on several -9s. Even if the handle is through the panel as per the plans, you have to pull it quite far to release. I can't imagine anyone being able to pull it all the way without the pilot being able to stop them.
Mel...DAR

redbeardmark · #10 02-21-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierre smith

A couple of years ago I asked the same question about upside down egress. I also asked whether or not the slider can be opened at a slow airspeed, like 65 or 70 MPH or if it can be jettisoned if it had removable front canopy pins instead of the bolted on rollers. It would really be nice to jettison or open the canopy shortly before impact/landing whether in trees or an ocean or muddy field. I'd appreciate answers.
I'd even be willing to participate in paying someone to demonstrate opening the canopy in flight, in case it's lost/broken or deformed, to compensate them for any loss. Any takers or is this request too weird?
Pierre

Perhaps "too dangerous" would be a better description. Don't think I'd care to see what happens when a canopy departs from the aircraft and whacks the vertical stabilizer. Or, if the canopy only partially breaks loose and is flailing the side of the fuselage. If you and another pilot were to try this, and if that pilot died, guess who's left holding the bag?

Jettisoning a canopy and them bailing out(with a parachute) is a different story because as soon as you leave the aircraft, it is toast anyway. Probably won't find many takers to help you with this experiment.

Getting yourself or someone else killed simply to demonstrate the feasibility or infeasibility of an emergency procedure... it would be a good idea to enlist the help of experts who do this for a living.