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  #11  
Old 10-13-2008, 11:29 AM
DGlaeser DGlaeser is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 879
Default Van's sells firewall sealant...

Here is what I used:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/...product=cs1900
But there is a note that they can't ship it temporarily - you have to pick it up Not sure where else to get it...
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Dennis Glaeser CFII
Rochester Hills, MI
RV-7A - Eggenfellner H6, GRT Sport ES, EIS4000, 300XL, SL30, TT Gemini, PMA6000, AK950L, GT320,
uAvionixEcho ADSB in/out with GRT Safe Fly GPS
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2008, 09:25 AM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
Default

<< It may or may not unseal when the firewall is subjected to fire, the question being "will the sealant remain adhered to hot stainless?". Second question is 'will it make smoke?">>

The answer to both questions seems to be "no".

Subject material is 3M Fire Barrier 2000+, the silicone base intumescent caulk. I applied a bead to both the front and back of the stainless "firewall" panel on my little burn rig. The rig is calibrated to roughly 2000F degrees, so results may be a little different for the hot side at lower temperatures.





These were taken about 60 seconds into the burn.

On the "engine" side, the sealant did pretty much as expected; it swelled up and ablated. Didn't notice any charring. As the silicone binder burned away, the solids tended to be blasted off the surface by the flame jet. At the 60 second point most of it was gone.

The surprise was the "cockpit" side. When I flipped the burner to high, the entire sealant strip released and fell off the stainless surface before I could even get around the backside to observe. This was well before the firewall panel glowed red. You can see it in the above photo, and here is the undamaged strip:



The ablated material from the hot side easily crumbles to powder.



Ok, there is nothing very "scientific" about this check. I didn't make any effort to tightly control the test conditions, in particular surface preparation. However, I think we can make a few valid observations.

1. Hot side performance (ablation) was tested at or above the maximum manufacturer's spec under dsirect flame (after all, they do call it Fire Barrier 2000). It may work better at lower temperature levels or with a thicker bead. I'd suggest the best application would be one with mechanical shielding of the sealant, like standard firewall pass-through shields or a washer.

2. The ability of this sealant to adhere to clean stainless is questionable when heated. This check suggests that in the event of fire, it will release and do nothing if applied as a bead on the back side of the firewall.

3. I observed no significant smoke.

4. Probably a fine sealant to keep ordinary fumes and CO out of the cockpit under normal conditions. There may be better choices if you consider things like oil resistance; not a subject here.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2010, 05:00 PM
alpinelakespilot2000 alpinelakespilot2000 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,646
Default 3m fire barrier 2000+ corrosive to steel?

Dan-
When you were doing your research, did you come across any research that suggested 3M Fire Barrier 2000+ is pretty corrosive to steel.

Like this one from a Lancair builder (about halfway down the page):
http://www.aero-farm.com/ubbthreads/...&fpart=11&vc=1

Still trying to decide what to use on the firewall under my stainless steel grommet shields that I've used for my engine control cables.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
<< It may or may not unseal when the firewall is subjected to fire, the question being "will the sealant remain adhered to hot stainless?". Second question is 'will it make smoke?">>

The answer to both questions seems to be "no".

Subject material is 3M Fire Barrier 2000+, the silicone base intumescent caulk. I applied a bead to both the front and back of the stainless "firewall" panel on my little burn rig. The rig is calibrated to roughly 2000F degrees, so results may be a little different for the hot side at lower temperatures.





These were taken about 60 seconds into the burn.

On the "engine" side, the sealant did pretty much as expected; it swelled up and ablated. Didn't notice any charring. As the silicone binder burned away, the solids tended to be blasted off the surface by the flame jet. At the 60 second point most of it was gone.

The surprise was the "cockpit" side. When I flipped the burner to high, the entire sealant strip released and fell off the stainless surface before I could even get around the backside to observe. This was well before the firewall panel glowed red. You can see it in the above photo, and here is the undamaged strip:



The ablated material from the hot side easily crumbles to powder.



Ok, there is nothing very "scientific" about this check. I didn't make any effort to tightly control the test conditions, in particular surface preparation. However, I think we can make a few valid observations.

1. Hot side performance (ablation) was tested at or above the maximum manufacturer's spec under dsirect flame (after all, they do call it Fire Barrier 2000). It may work better at lower temperature levels or with a thicker bead. I'd suggest the best application would be one with mechanical shielding of the sealant, like standard firewall pass-through shields or a washer.

2. The ability of this sealant to adhere to clean stainless is questionable when heated. This check suggests that in the event of fire, it will release and do nothing if applied as a bead on the back side of the firewall.

3. I observed no significant smoke.

4. Probably a fine sealant to keep ordinary fumes and CO out of the cockpit under normal conditions. There may be better choices if you consider things like oil resistance; not a subject here.
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2010, 05:49 PM
MontanaMike MontanaMike is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrison, ID
Posts: 153
Default Sealing The Firewall

My DAR told me to put my wife inside the cockpit, in the dark, with a bright flashlight and have her shine it around my firewall from the inside while I was outside.

Guess what I found... some light here and there, for a re-sealing.

And a CO2 dot purchase.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2010, 08:55 PM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinelakespilot2000 View Post
Dan-
When you were doing your research, did you come across any research that suggested 3M Fire Barrier 2000+ is pretty corrosive to steel.
No. Corrosion seems an unlikely issue with a 3M product designed to firestop openings around pipe, conduit and wire in commercial construction:

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--

I have no clue what happened with the Lancair guy.
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:20 PM
APACHE 56 APACHE 56 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MERRITT ISLAND, FL
Posts: 360
Default 3M product limitations

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--

I have no clue what happened with the Lancair guy.[/quote]

RE: the spec sheet Dan cites.
Bullet 4 under limitations states
Limitations
.
.
.
? Painted surfaces

Since most engine mounts are painted one could conclude that the Lancair builder validated 3M's warning.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2010, 11:18 AM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
Default

Took a few moments today to call 3M. Actually two calls, one to the technical call center and the other to a field rep for firestop products. Both gentlemen said corrosion of metals is very unlikely, as FireBarrier 2000+ is specifically designed to seal openings around metal pipe, conduit and sheet. It is a "certified" product, subject to a heap of construction standards and approvals.

The field rep said the "don't apply to painted surfaces" note is an adhesion caution.

Sorry, can't do any more for you....I'm no chemist.
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2010, 10:32 PM
ArVeeNiner's Avatar
ArVeeNiner ArVeeNiner is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,125
Default Silicone and paint don't mix right?

I was sealing the firewall this evening and putting that 3M caulk between the skin and the firewall flange. I could see the caulk through the rivet hole and then I remembered that you shouldn't get silicone near any surface that you eventually want to paint. I guess the paint doesn't like to stick to it and it's impossible to clean off. I'm not using an excessive amount and haven't gotton any on the skin so I think I'm OK so far but are there any opinons out there about this? Should I just bag this idea and just shimmy up under the panel and try to put a fillet on the inside?
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