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  #1  
Old 09-13-2005, 08:08 PM
philcam's Avatar
philcam philcam is offline
 
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Location: DFW, Texas
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Default Dynon vs Blue Mountain

A buddie of mine is looking at redoing the panel in his -4. First he thought he wanted the Dynon D-100 plus a EMS D-10. Now he's thinking the Blue Mountain One or maybe the BM Lite is the way to go. Obviously, at 15k the BM One is the most expensive. The BM lite is about on par with the price range of the Dynon.

So my question is, is the BM One worth 3 times the price of a D-100 plus a EMS D-10?

Any pro's or con's anyone can give one either system would be great.

Thanks!
Phil
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  #2  
Old 09-13-2005, 10:15 PM
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TTU_RV7 TTU_RV7 is offline
 
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Location: Ft Worth, TX
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Talking What about GRT

Phil,

You might have your buddy take a look at the GRT system. I will freely admit I am biased as it is what I am putting in my RV-7A, but after playing with it at the SWRFI this spring I was sold.

Functionality: EXTREMELY comparable to BM. It does not have an internal GPS nor autopilot, but you can pruchase a Garmin external GPS w/ the unit for about $450 as an option. Also, I was told by a sales rep (truth = grain of salt) @ SWRFI that they are working closely with TRUTRAK so everything integrates very nicely.

Display: There is a lot of emphasis on "sun-light readable." I am one of those who cares ALOT about this since I live in TX. As some know, the summer sun here can be very bright while it turns the area "hotter than the surface of the sun!" I have not seen a BM in person, but I did see the Dynon 10A at SWRFI. The Dynon was nice, but off angle it washed out a little. Once I put on my polarized sunglasses (I know bad idea when flying) it really washed it out. The GRT had an amazing off angle clarity. Most ammazingly, with my bad idea polarized sunglasses on, the colors got darker, but the GRT still looked great. My only complaint about the GRT display is the resolution. The Dynon and BM have much better resolution, but the GRT is pretty good. The graphics on the website are really an injustice to the displays.

Still in the display realm is the GRT capability for split screens. I understand Dynon is going to this, and it is inherent in the BM One (don't even think about it with the Lite.) When you purchase the dual panel system from GRT (approx $8995) you get the GRT EIS 4000 with it. With the dual panel, you would have PFD on one, moving map and digital engine display split screen on the other. You can interchange all 3 displays as needed. Oh, almost forgot, the GRT is widescreen 7.25"x4".

If by chance, your buddy is not looking for a fully integrated system, GRT is now marketing the GRT Sport. It is basically a PFD only, but it is self-contained like the Dynon. It has some interoperability with autopilots and GPS, but is not a full system. Flyer shows $2795.

If you need more info, check out the website http://www.grtavionics.com/index.htm . If you want to know how it flys, Walter Tondue just got airborne (also an RV7A), and he is flying with 3 panels and the EIS. (I am planning on the same configuration.) Done right, you can actually make it IFR.

One more thing before I close this long reply. You might check out BM's history. I do not want to rehash the past (as I am sure others will), but standing on the sidelines I see their customer service and ease of use as 50/50. For every person that bags on them, there is one who praises them. I have only heard good things about GRT (though I am sure there are some who are unhappy.)
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  #3  
Old 09-14-2005, 01:04 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default Efis

Phil, Do a search for blue mountain and you will get a lot of hits. There are some pretty passionate discussions of this system.
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Last edited by rv8ch : 09-14-2005 at 01:05 AM. Reason: typo
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  #4  
Old 09-14-2005, 07:15 PM
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N395V N395V is offline
 
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Location: Mendon South Carolina
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Default BM vs....................

Phil,

I too am biased I have a Blue Mountain EFIS one and EFIS lite. Can't compare them to Dynon or GR as I have never seen these units.

Have a couple of hundred hours behind them a good bit of it IMC.

After 30 years of steam guages they were difficult to get used to but I now find them comfortable and easy to use.

The Blue Mountain units are intuitive and easy to use. i find them accurate and responsive in flight and even with a bubble canopy very sunlight readable. The terrain and obstruction feature is awesome.

The system is light and overall costs much less than traditional components.

It is nice not having a vacuum pump.

I had a glitch once that was self induced and found the factory exceedingly responsive to my needs.

My 2 systems are totally separate and offer great redundancy.

In my next plane I will certainly install Blue Mountain.

Some people have had problems with timely delivery. This I cannot speak to as mine were in the plane and operational before it was flyable.

Start up, hookup and calibration are a real pain for the computer challenged and the manuals are not exceptionally helpful and you will spend a lot of time on the phone with their tech guy. Some feel he is less than nice, this has not been my experience.

They mesh with and work well with my garmin comnav and the BM autopilot.


Downsides as I have experienced them.

Due to memory constraints the VFR moving map is only availabe on a 24nm scale and with the plane at mid screen it is useless. The low IFR charts are Jepps and allow a good slection of ranges.

Also currently the EFIS will only let you flight plan airport to airport or to co located vors but I believe this will soon be fixed as will the memory problem.

Currently you cannot display weather or approach plates but I think this will soon also be added. (soon meaning???????)

Airspeed below 50 knots is not very sensitive nor accurate and indeed every unit I have seen sitting on the ground shows an airspeed of 35 knots.

I have not been able to adjust the unit to acurately reflect actual IAS at speeds below 70KTS. Above 70 it is deadly accurate.

All in all I am satisfied and consider it a lot of bang for the buck.

I would suggest that if possible you actually aly eyes on all of the units you are considering, compare their various features relative to the typeof flying you do and make a decision based on objective facts and not the subjective opinions of those of us who are biased (me included).

I have no doubts I would probably be just as happy with a Dynon or GR.

Milt

Last edited by N395V : 09-14-2005 at 07:18 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2005, 05:46 AM
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Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
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Location: Gold Hill, NC25
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Default Ive got em all, here you go

OK since Im probably the only guy flying all 3 units Ill give you my 2 cents.
You can not compare these apples to apples. These units have different strengths and weaknesses.
IF all he wants is EFIS, then the Dynon has the best feature function set at the price point. If He wants large screen and other Nav Gee whiz features then the GRT. If he wants Nav and EFIS in a small form factor then BMA G3 is it.

Kahuna
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2005, 07:32 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Default EFIS support

Kahuna reported:
Quote:
OK since Im probably the only guy flying all 3 units Ill give you my 2 cents.

Mike, would you care to give us some insight on the customer support you have received from each company?

Sam Buchanan
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  #7  
Old 09-15-2005, 03:10 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default shipping times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Mike, would you care to give us some insight on the customer support you have received from each company?
That would be most appreciated. Also, any info on shipping times, if possible.

I'm on the list for a GRT Sport, but considering adding the BMA G3 just for its HSI. Of course, I like the Dynon D100's screen! My dream EFIS would be the best of all three.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2005, 06:17 AM
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Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
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Location: Gold Hill, NC25
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Default Customer Support

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8ch
That would be most appreciated.
OK,
Dynon
I had a lot of dealings with Dynon early on with their units. RF noise, leaning ,and so forth. This was a new to market item. I was a willful early adopter and I test software for a living. I was in personal contact sometimes daily with them from the shipping department to their president. I enjoyed working with them. They worked diligently to rectify the problems. I worked diligently to help them.

GRT. Not had any real dealings with them. Getting started required some e-mails for poor docs and in some cases wrong docs. Passing streams of data from multiple units can get complicated. Guess you could say that the unit has been solid enough for me not to have to talk to them. I have enjoyed helping others on their discussion boards. I was an early adopter for them also and one of the first to really hook up all the gee whiz features. As a note, last night I was flying an ILS approach with the plate up overlayed on terrain with traffic on the MX20, and the HITS(highway in the sky) up on the GRT and my daughter age 13 could have flown in to the ground safely. Its just totally amazing and Im still drooling over it.

BMA - If your the type that needs a lot of hand holding, do not buy a BMA unit. If you expect the unit to be shipped on time, do not buy the unit. Service sucks at every level. I knew it going in and confirmed it in every way along the way. That said, the little G3 is awesome and I'd buy another. The HSI is very cool and I think worth its pennies just for that. With just a couple more features it would rock. Moving map sucks, EFIS display is great. Do not buy one of these for your primary GPS means of navigation. Moving map is junk. Until this unit can accept an outside stream to drive the waypoints, then to me it is just a real nice backup.

In Summary for customer service
Dynon - Great.
GRT - good but not used much
BMA - Off the charts rotten.

In my most recent RV, you will notice I did not put a Dynon in. Clearly Service is not the top reason to buy for me. I am absolutely a feature function guy. I can usually scream loud enough and **** off enough folks to get what I need if service sucks. After All, I am Kahuna

Hope this helps.

Kahuna
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2005, 06:03 PM
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philcam philcam is offline
 
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Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 207
Thumbs up Thanks

Everyone who took time to write back, thank you! My buddy who owns the -4 has decide on the D-100. He also just ordered a James Wholy Cowl for his plane, so he's got some work ahead of him. He also asked me to pass a big thank you along to you guys.

Does anyone one know of any RVers running a Dynon south of Austin, Texas. (He lives near Corpus, but travels often to west Texas.) I checked out the Dynon's at OSH this year, and found them to be very cool. I took all the paper work to him, but he's yet to see one in person.

Thanks again, folks!
Phil
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