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  #1  
Old 01-14-2008, 01:09 PM
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shamer shamer is offline
 
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Location: Eagle, Id
Posts: 102
Default Landing the RV-6

I had responded to a thread by Paul where he was talking about the differences he experienced landing the -8 and the -6. I am copying my response here in hopes of more -6 guys seeing it.

In an odd sort of way, it's good to hear of some "high timers" struggling a bit with landing the -6. After nine years of flying my -4 with no landing issues, I have found my landings in my -6 to be inconsistent at best. They're coming around with time but still not to a point where I can predict the quality of the touch down with any certainty.
I usually did a three point landing with the -4 and yet I could wheel land it okay. With the -6, I'm still searching for the secret to a three point and it seems a wheel landing requires a lot of excess speed to keep from being in a three point position near the touch down. I typically use full flaps. The -6 seems to decelerate quicker near the stall, too, which took some time for me adapt to.
So, the question of day for you high time -6 drivers is: what speed should I be flying in the flare for a wheel landing? My airplane stalls at 57 mph indicated with full flaps. Also, my CG is normal for a -6.
I would appreciate any words of wisdom.

Steve Hamer
RV-6
0-360 BA Hartzell
Apple Valley, Ca.
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2008, 03:25 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Land three point 70 mph with half flaps, and report back
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2008, 03:33 PM
DeltaRomeo DeltaRomeo is offline
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Default Modified three point...

My -6 lands best in a tail-low wheel landing - almost a three point but not quite. Right when the mains get planted I push just a tad forward on the stick to get the tailwheel back up...it's maybe 6" from the ground when the mains kiss. This gives me visibility I want for the rollout and better rudder authority.

Also, having manual flaps I can always opt to dump them in about a third of a second to make the plane stop flying RIGHT NOW (useful for slick runways).

b,
dr
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2008, 05:34 PM
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Jim Lewellyn Jim Lewellyn is offline
 
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Location: Bloomsburg, PA
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Default Wheel Landings

I am surely not a seasoned vet, but I was struggling with wheel landings in my 6 also. I flew a Cessna 140 for quite a while and did wheel landings with the power pulled all the way off. I was trying to land the 6 more or less the same way, which was a mistake. What I finally figured out that works for me is full flaps, same approach speed as a 3 pointer but keep a little power on, when your close to touching, focus (look) way down the runway, feel your way onto the runway with a bit of power. Once the mains touch, ease the power off and ease a little forward pressure on the stick.

I am just guessing, but I'll bet you will get many different suggestions. Good luck!

Jim
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2008, 05:42 PM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Location: NC25
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Not sure who has the most landings in a -6 but will throw out what I know.

Get your seating position as HIGH as you can without hitting your head on the canopy. LEARN what your view is in the three point position sitting on the round when you taxi and run up. MEMORIZE IT! Doug's tail low wheel landing is very similar to what I am trying to explain but with a little luck, all three will touch at the same time. YES it does like to bounce. I can make better three point landings with two on board, full fuel, and lots of baggage.

FLY the airplane down the runway in the taxi attitude. It will land. It may feel like you are bouncing but if you ask some on the ground, they will tell you it was only a few inches even though it feel like a few feet.

That is the best I can do for you. It makes a difference if you have the OPTIONAL wood stiffeners that are in the plans or nothing. The wood helps to get rid of some of the bouncing.

Tom Prokop has the best WHEEL landing technique that I have found for the -6. IF you adjust the trim on downwind for 100 mph, DO NOT touch it the rest of the approach and landing. YOU MUST have NO sink rate when you touch.

I have done over 90% of my landings as 3-point keeping with what my tail wheel instructor taught back in 1988 and the FAA recommendation of touching down at the slowest possible speed. For formation flying, the extra speed of the wheel landing is needed.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2008, 05:49 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lewellyn View Post
I am surely not a seasoned vet, but I was struggling with wheel landings in my 6 also. I flew a Cessna 140 for quite a while and did wheel landings with the power pulled all the way off. I was trying to land the 6 more or less the same way, which was a mistake. What I finally figured out that works for me is full flaps, same approach speed as a 3 pointer but keep a little power on, when your close to touching, focus (look) way down the runway, feel your way onto the runway with a bit of power. Once the mains touch, ease the power off and ease a little forward pressure on the stick.
Jim, that is precisely the same technique as I use in the RV-6, and it works very nicely......except for those times the turbulence is moving the runway up and down, then a bit of luck when timing touchdown is nice.

I find an approach that is a little flatter than what is often used by other pilots will also make the wheel landings more consistent, makes it a little easier to "feel" for the runway as the sink rate is brought to near zero.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:34 PM
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shamer shamer is offline
 
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Location: Eagle, Id
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Default Landing a -6

Thanks for all of the replies. I'll try them all and see what works best. I had been advised about using some power all the way down and it does work but it just seems like a bad habit. Gary's instructor sounds a lot like mine. However, Sam's comment about the runway moving up and down was particularly eye opening. California does have a tendency to shake on occasion. I'll just blame it on the state.
Thanks again.

Steve
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:57 PM
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L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamer View Post
Thanks for all of the replies. I'll try them all and see what works best. I had been advised about using some power all the way down and it does work but it just seems like a bad habit.

It's not a "bad" habit. Backcountry fliers use it all the time! The choice is to carry more airspeed to start with, or carry some power. All wings don't fly alike, and the "6" is no Cub or 172!

I initally learned to carry power with the Piper Arrow. Same basic frame as the Archer, but more weight.

Do enough reading, and you'll find pilots/instructors who don't believe in carrying power, as though somethings terrible about it; while many others know it's the correct thing to do, when considering a particular aircraft. The one size fits all mentality, just doesn't make sense!

L.Adamson
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2008, 09:29 PM
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Default Landing a -6

[quote=L.Adamson;189396]It's not a "bad" habit. Backcountry fliers use it all the time! The choice is to carry more airspeed to start with, or carry some power. All wings don't fly alike, and the "6" is no Cub or 172!

I know there is a time and place for various techniques, but the technique I employ to land on a 4000 foot long paved runway will differ from the guy landing on a rock in the middle of a river. A slow flying RV with the power on will fly a lot like a rock when the engine quits. Not a good thing to have happen 50 feet up. I think my compromise might be to fly my normal power off approach and once I have the field made, bring in some power to finesse the landing. What do you think?

Steve
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2008, 10:25 PM
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L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
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Quote:
I know there is a time and place for various techniques, but the technique I employ to land on a 4000 foot long paved runway will differ from the guy landing on a rock in the middle of a river. A slow flying RV with the power on will fly a lot like a rock when the engine quits. Not a good thing to have happen 50 feet up.
I don't like low & slow, dragging it in either. My comment concerns those, who say to treat every landing as though the engine has quit; and "always" using throttle at idle. Then it's a case of carrying extra airspeed to prevent the nose from falling through a flare, so to speak; instead of a bit of power to finess, as already described.

BTW--- a RV "9" won't fly like a rock. It's quite different than a "6". More like a 172, with power to idle for most landings.

L.Adamson
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