A very lucky pilot! (LI Iron Battery)

sailvi767 · #1 12-04-2014, 03:25 PM

http://www.heavenboundaviation.com/d...eryfirePDF.pdf

Airzen · #2 12-04-2014, 03:43 PM

Simply astonishing. I was considering Aerovoltz battery after reading some favorable comments on LiFePo batteries on VAF. Now there is no way ...

Lemmingman · #3 12-04-2014, 04:59 PM

I cant tell if the OP is the original author of the linked pdf. Since this happened in March I wonder if the manufacturer has a comment about this incident. No mention of whether they wanted the battery back to investigate the cause.

sailvi767 · #4 12-04-2014, 05:04 PM

I am not the author. It would have expected the manufacturer to have requested the battery back and try and determine the cause. I have no knowledge if that has happened.

George

BillL · #5 12-04-2014, 05:39 PM

It looks bad, but is consistent with other conclusions from VAF threads - put it in a stainless steel box and vent overboard. At least it did not burst into flames. And take an airplane with it.

Now the discussion about what set it off. . .

edit: I stand corrected on the flames -after landing and exposing, it did have flames. I was referring to a burst cell case where the contents violently spewed gas, liquid and flames. This post was a bit tongue in cheek as I have posted previously that just because it has IRON in it (alone), does not make it safe. It can still have an exotherm, as exhibited here. The LiFePh chemistries have a lower peak exotherm temperature that allows case containment, but is still over 300C. I still don't believe we have a reliable installation and management procedure, short of the sealed, vented overboard, stainless battery box.

sailvi767 · #6 12-04-2014, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillL

It looks bad, but is consistent with other conclusions from VAF threads - put it in a stainless steel box and vent overboard. At least it did not burst into flames. And take an airplane with it.

Now the discussion about what set it off. . .

I believe it did burst into flames but after the aircraft was on the ground. Proper venting would be critical. A smoking Litium battery is not survivable in a enclosed cockpit. The fumes will quickly incapacitate the pilot. A firewall mounted battery would be better in that situation then the location in my six between the rudder pedals. I don't believe this battery fire would have been survivable in my aircraft.

George

ColoRv · #7 12-04-2014, 06:37 PM

Vent overboard? How about diet to save the 10lbs and put a real battery on board. If he were cruising anywhere near the altitudes I cruise at....he would have been in serious trouble. 17500 is a long ways from the ground with smoke in the cockpit. Especially in an aircraft like the -8 with the battery inside and I dont think it's very easy to stick your head out of an RV in flight like he was able to.

I've been on fire in race cars....it isn't fun. I simply can't fathom risking my life, leaving my family without me....for 10lbs, or 100 for that matter.

donaziza · #8 12-04-2014, 07:54 PM

United Airlines had trouble with Lithium batteries on their new 787's. FAA grounded them for a while. I think one started smoking on the ramp in Japan. Don't know what Boeing did for a fix, but it might be worth looking into. (I "think" something about a sealed box and ventilation is what I heard, but I'm honestly not sure)

Just a thought.

Ironflight · #9 12-04-2014, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donaziza

United Airlines had trouble with Lithium batteries on their new 787's. FAA grounded them for a while. I think one started smoking on the ramp in Japan. Don't know what Boeing did for a fix, but it might be worth looking into. (I "think" something about a sealed box and ventilation is what I heard, but I'm honestly not sure)

Just a thought.

Just to keep this thread on track, I do not believe that the 787 Lithium battery was a Lithium IRON battery. Not all "Lithium" battteriies use the same chemistry, and they have significantly different characteristics.

The Aerovolts IS LiFePo, and it would be very interesting to hear more facts on this incident..

SHIPCHIEF · #10 12-05-2014, 12:02 AM

Just a counter point:
Lead Acid batteries fail too. Last week, my brother had one on a charger that blew about 1/3 of the top off. I was talking to him on the phone when it happened, and I heard it very well over the phone.
Not a smelly smoking mess with a fire. A big blast with the top of the battery case blown off.
I don't know which will be the more damaging, or which type has the greatest failure rate.
My RV-8 shed about 70 pounds when I removed the Mazda turbo rotary engine, and replaced it with a lightened parallel valve IO-360 w/ CATTO 3 blade prop. It now weighs 1035 lbs with wheel pants! Needless to say, the CG shifted aft. I removed the PC680 from behind the baggage bulkhead today. Now I can remove a couple of pounds of battery cable too.
I never liked the battery being in the back, it's hard to get to it for inspection or replacement, and it's not really isolated from the passenger compartment.
I'll put the battery on the firewall, low, and away from the fuel system.
I'm leaning toward a LiFePO4 with built in charge management circuits. I'm open to the idea of a vented case and/or a battery temp monitor.