Van's Air Force
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Aileron response
- Thread starter trackdom
- Start date
David-aviator
Well Known Member
It is a 2 finger operation, in time you will relax a bit and it becomes second nature.
They will indeed seem twitchy when transitioning from something else, but yes, they can be tuned for less sensitivity. Trailing edge shape has a large effect.
Mine (QB ailerons) were way more sensitive than I preferred, but some trailing edge squeezing fixed it...light in the lower end of the speed range, firmer at higher speeds.
Mine (QB ailerons) were way more sensitive than I preferred, but some trailing edge squeezing fixed it...light in the lower end of the speed range, firmer at higher speeds.
Sad to admit but I flew in my first RV this weekend and happened to be a 10. Didn't takeoff or land but was able to do some maneuvering from the right seat for about 20 mins. I was amazed at how sensitive the stick was, as others mentioned I just used two fingers and got used to it fairly quick.
dougweil
Well Known Member
Yes, RVs have outstanding aileron response. However, it's worthwhile to be sure the ailerons were built correctly. Here is an article about my experience with my RV-7:
http://www.mnwing.org/building-tips/twitchy-ailerons/
http://www.mnwing.org/building-tips/twitchy-ailerons/
My only experience so far is with the trim tabs, I built them so only have myself to blame but there were a bit too 'rounded' so I did essentially what you did and squeezed them more flat. I also ended up with some concaveness but nothing too bad. In a few years I guess I'll find out how it flies.
rv7charlie
Well Known Member
The comments about aileron trailing edge making a difference are spot on (rounded means lighter; sharper edged means heavier). Note that the RV-9 (heavier controls) has wedge shaped inserts in the trailing edges instead of the 'folded' trailing edges on the other 2 seat RV's.
But, the planes aren't twitchy, even with rounded trailing edges. It's all about what you've calibrated your hands and arms to expect. For example, few Cessna pilots complain about a 182's handling, but to me, they feel like the controls are binding all the time. If you don't re-trim for landing, it takes both hands (and a reasonably strong back) to flair.
Here's a tip to compensate until you recalibrate your touch. Ignore your stick grip and slide your hand down the stick 4 - 6 inches (sorry; 10-15 cm). You won't move your hand as far, but pressure will go up; closer to what you're probably used to feeling. Another benefit is that you can rest your forearm on your leg, and use that as a stabilizer. Then you can use your wrist and fingers for control, instead of your arm strength. This will give another perceived increase in stick force. I find it more comfortable, and do most of my flying this way, except during t/o, landing, and 'high energy' maneuvering like acro.
FWIW...
Charlie
But, the planes aren't twitchy, even with rounded trailing edges. It's all about what you've calibrated your hands and arms to expect. For example, few Cessna pilots complain about a 182's handling, but to me, they feel like the controls are binding all the time. If you don't re-trim for landing, it takes both hands (and a reasonably strong back) to flair.
Here's a tip to compensate until you recalibrate your touch. Ignore your stick grip and slide your hand down the stick 4 - 6 inches (sorry; 10-15 cm). You won't move your hand as far, but pressure will go up; closer to what you're probably used to feeling. Another benefit is that you can rest your forearm on your leg, and use that as a stabilizer. Then you can use your wrist and fingers for control, instead of your arm strength. This will give another perceived increase in stick force. I find it more comfortable, and do most of my flying this way, except during t/o, landing, and 'high energy' maneuvering like acro.
FWIW...
Charlie
Auburntsts
Well Known Member
Same on the RV-10. The trailing edges are riveted with an AEX wedge in between the top and bottom skins, so the shape is basically pre-determined. The hard part is keeping the trailing edge straight during the riveting process otherwise you will end up with undesirable flying qualities.
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A light touch on the stick. You will adapt. Have fun!
Caveman
Well Known Member
My two cents
Before building, I took the RV-7 demo flight at Van's. I thought the airplane's handling was awesome. Sporty and quick but yet confidence inspiring. You just thought about where you wanted the plane to go and it was there. Like everyone says, " a two finger airplane". When I did my first flight after building, I was in for a surprise. My ailerons seems very twitchy in comparison to the demo plane. Almost but not quite to the point of introducing PIO. I didn't like it as well. A few minutes gently squeezing the aileron trailing edges worked like magic. Listen to Dan H! My suggestion is to go up in another RV-8 or two first and ask to take the controls for comparison before proceeding. If they fly more to your liking than your airplane take Dan's advice.
Before building, I took the RV-7 demo flight at Van's. I thought the airplane's handling was awesome. Sporty and quick but yet confidence inspiring. You just thought about where you wanted the plane to go and it was there. Like everyone says, " a two finger airplane". When I did my first flight after building, I was in for a surprise. My ailerons seems very twitchy in comparison to the demo plane. Almost but not quite to the point of introducing PIO. I didn't like it as well. A few minutes gently squeezing the aileron trailing edges worked like magic. Listen to Dan H! My suggestion is to go up in another RV-8 or two first and ask to take the controls for comparison before proceeding. If they fly more to your liking than your airplane take Dan's advice.
The great handling that the RV airplanes are known for is often not realized because of incorrect trailing edge shape on control surfaces (on models without riveted trailing edges).
This can be an issue on rudder and elevators as well as the ailerons.
If you think your handling/control response is not correct, indiscriminately changing the shape is not a very good idea (even if you don't think so, this is a check that should be done on every RV if the owner doesn't know for sure they are correct).
Instead, the actual shape should be checked compared to what it should be and then adjustments made accordingly.
Paragraph 5.7 of construction manual Section 5 (Access a copy HERE) explains how to check the shape and then make adjustments if required.
This can be an issue on rudder and elevators as well as the ailerons.
If you think your handling/control response is not correct, indiscriminately changing the shape is not a very good idea (even if you don't think so, this is a check that should be done on every RV if the owner doesn't know for sure they are correct).
Instead, the actual shape should be checked compared to what it should be and then adjustments made accordingly.
Paragraph 5.7 of construction manual Section 5 (Access a copy HERE) explains how to check the shape and then make adjustments if required.
Scott,
After squeezing and banging on my TE's, I am quite happy with the feel of my ailerons. However, as I was reading this thread I got to wondering about my elevators. My 6A is very pitch sensitive and I wouldn't mind toning it down just a bit if I could. Does the this type of exercise apply to the elevators as well as the ailerons?
Larry
As already mentioned, it definitely can.
It can cause lighter than designed pitch forces, a dead band in the control range, and a reduction in pitch stability.
It can have an influence on the rudder performance as well.
Neal@F14
Well Known Member
If you thought the 10 was responsive on the stick, just wait until you get to fly a 4 or a 6
BTW, the way to fly an 8 is with your forearm rested on your leg behind the knee and your thumb and forefinger on the stick grip... Unless you're doing acro of course, then you'll want a more solid grip on the stick.
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
All a matter of perspective. The RV-8 is certainly sporty compared to a spam can, but downright slow compared to other airplanes - especially aerobatic ships.
Just give it time and alow yourself to adapt.
Just give it time and alow yourself to adapt.
I agree with rv7charlie
Yep. I agree with rv7charlie. I have about 450 hrs total, 65 hrs in my 7A. When I was getting rv training, I was coming in for a landing and was unstable, I asked Tom Berge, why am I getting blown all over the place; it's not that windy. He responded, it's you. I said no way. He said let go of the stick. I did and the plane immediately settled down. You just need to get used to the responsive controls. Once you do, it's a blast. I love my 7A!
Yep. I agree with rv7charlie. I have about 450 hrs total, 65 hrs in my 7A. When I was getting rv training, I was coming in for a landing and was unstable, I asked Tom Berge, why am I getting blown all over the place; it's not that windy. He responded, it's you. I said no way. He said let go of the stick. I did and the plane immediately settled down. You just need to get used to the responsive controls. Once you do, it's a blast. I love my 7A!
True - it's all a matter of perspective, depending on where your experience lies on the continuum of performance. Going from a 172 to an RV-8 will be a shock to the system. Similar going from an RV-8 to a Giles, which will make the RV feel as sluggish as a 172...or possibly even a Ford Trimotor.
Keep in mind that it could be that you are just not accustomed to flying an RV, and/or that the forces on your airplane are even lighter than they are intended to be.
I highly recommend that you do the shape check that I described in THIS POST
Once you have confirmed that the shape is correct, Then you can assume that what everyone has suggested is correct...... "that you just aren't accustomed to the airplane yet".
