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Hose Life

JDA_BTR

Well Known Member
What are the expectations for hose service life?

I think these can be visually inspected and have no fixed lifespan:
Brake lines -> I have the Beringer braided lines
Hard lines
Flexible fuel lines from TS Flightlines for the cockpit from pump to firewall
Flexible fuel lines from TS Flightlines for the wing root filter

I don't know about these:
Oil lines firewall forward from Vans
Fuel lines firewall forward from Vans

What is guidance and what is required......
 
I replaced all my Vans flexible lines firewall forward at the last condition inspection. I purchased Teflon lines from TS Flightlines, Tom was awesome to work with. The Vans lines looked OK but Tom shared some pictures of what happens on the inside of those lines when they age.:eek:
 
Dudley, all of our hoses are teflon, so a virtual unlimited service life, as long as they arent abused, rub the braid on other things like aluminum structures, lay them on exhaust, etc. WE do recommend that they be visually inspected at conditionals to check for those conditions.

Vans now uses teflon hoses in its FWF packages, from several manufacturers and vendors. So the same critera applies.

Tom
 
Vans changed to using teflon around 2014+-. The FWF hoses were changed from Aeroquip 701 either in a pre-manufactured version, or a do it yourself bulk hose and fitting version. So most everything since 2014 (I think) is teflon.

Tom
 
Thanks, Tom. I will have to try to determine when my hoses were produced.
 
AN Hoses

High and medium pressure aircraft rubber hoses usually have dates printed right on them. As they taught me in A&P school, rubber hoses should be replaced at 8 years, teflon hoses on condition. If you don’t know how old a hose is and the logbook is no help then a hose can be pretty suspect. If I remove the hose, set it on the hangar floor and it keeps its shape (doesn’t straighten out any), then it’s an easy decision to just move it to the trash. If you’re ambitious enough, you can reuse the fittings, provided they don’t look worn, galled, bent, burned... etc. Hoses are kind of expensive, but when they fail they’re REALLY expensive. Teflon is generally worth the extra $. Not only do they usually outlast the airplane, they tend to be a bit smaller and more flexible than rubber hoses, especially the high pressure rubber hoses.
 
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Next time my cowling is off I’ll make pics of the tags on the vans hoses in my setup. The FF kit I have is from 2016-2017 so likely Teflon. But I’ll educate myself on those tags.
 
Easy way to tell is look at the hose ends. Rubber lined hose, including 701 hose generally use aluminum fittings. Teflon most always is stainless at least through -10.
Tom
 
To add to the discussion..... as Tom mentioned, Vans has been utilizing teflon hoses for awhile FWF.

Fuel supply lines from Vans are typically a quality Conductive Teflon hose and are firesleeved. Oil lines are a quality non firesleeved Conductive Teflon hose. Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, and Manifold Pressure lines from Vans are typically a non firesleeved, non conductive teflon hose and the fittings are imported industrial fittings with a plated coating.

Here is a stock picture of a FWF hose kit from Vans

wpc3f89ebb_05_06.jpg


Tom and I choose to utilize conductive teflon hoses for ALL FWF lines. We also firesleeve ALL hoses FWF (except for certain Manifold pressure line applications/PMAG Manifold Pressure Line Applications). ALL hoses have the same quality 100% stainless steel fittings and stainless steel collars which means that you won't start to get surface corrosion on the fittings over time. In addition, every hose we build has a 10 year warranty, and they are all "on-condition" replacement items. Finally, builders have a choice of either standard Milspec AS1072 Firesleeve, or our new Premium Integral Silicone Firesleeve option. (Pictured Below)

wp7eaa2158_06.png


We love having discussions with fellow builders about hoses. So, if you have any questions, please give Tom or I a call.

Happy Building,
Steve
 
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I would recommend buying one of everything for the RV-14(A) from this page: http://aircraftspecialty.com/rv-14.html . You won't be disappointed - their quality and customer service are second to none. The integral firesleeve option for FWF hoses is really slick, and absolutely worth the small premium in price.

_Alex
 
Just got my new hoses!

My rubber fuel and oil hoses are 12 yrs and about 1300 hrs old, so I decided it was time to change them. I sent an email order to Tom last week for new Teflon hoses and today I got box from the mailman. Thanks Tom! Hopefully I get to install them over the next couple weeks.

4FE3AEAD-4CC3-4790-92D5-C49B696B7DA0.jpg
 
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Hose Failure

At work, they recently had a hose failure. It was something like 9000hrs and 10 years old. Unfortunately this was an oil scavenge hose, so it dumped the entirety of the engine oil into the cowling in pretty short order.

Since I'm sure the hoses degrade by (engine) heat and calendar age, 12 years with comparatively low hours is probably about right. If an RV does 9000hrs in 10 years, I'll be very impressed.
 
My rubber fuel and oil hoses are 12 yrs and about 1300 hrs old, so I decided it was time to change them. I sent an email order to Tom last week for new Teflon hoses and today I got box from the mailman. Thanks Tom! Hopefully I get to install them over the next couple weeks.

View attachment 4662

Glad you like the new hoses!!!! :) You have a 10 year warranty on them, and they are "on-condition" replacement!

Mileage definitely can vary with rubber hoses. Here are some hoses we replaced about a year ago for another builder. They were part of a cabin fuel supply system, so under extremely low pressure. The builder was smelling vapor fumes in the cabin and sent them to us to build new conductive teflon hoses. For fun, we put it onto our hydrostatic pressure tester, and this is what we found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu__Wt0ImLk&feature=emb_logo
 
David---the Canadians 'might' have a different criteria on hose replacement, but I doubt it. That hose should have be suspect at the annual and replaced long before it got to the failure point. A hose is a bunch less expensive than the engine, no matter what its in.
I say that knowing full well that there are ALOT of aircraft flying with rubber lined hoses that should have been changed along time ago. Saw hoses on a 30 year old GA plane that the tank to fuselage hoses were original. Yep surface cracks, nasty looking, etc, way out of date per the replacement cycle, but every year they got passed over. Think about it.

As for teflon, yes its true that they have an unlimited service life, according to most all the manufacturers. BUT they do recommend inspection at annuals/conditionals. And yes, even some do change teflon hoses and engine overhaul/replacement time.

I dont think Paul will mind if I show this pic----its of some of the hoses off 'Mikey" the RV6 He and Louise have. Replaced the rubber Aeroquip 701 hoses the -4 teflon one, and the ratty firesleeve with our integral firesleeve hose. They were doing an engine replacement and saw these. The teflon hose had some broken wires in the reinforcement braid, so we of course changed it.

Tom
 

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I'm not the mechanic, just a pilot so I never saw the hose. Apparently it looked respectable with a visual inspection, minus the leak. The hoses were on condition, not sure of the inspection interval, probably less than annually given the high aircraft utilization. Either way, my company's maintenance department gave all those hoses an hour life limit.

In that event, the pilots saw a low oil pressure warning and shut off the engine, saving the PT-6 installed in the Beech 1900D. I miss the power of flying that plane. It's got a better power-to-weight ratio with an engine shut down than a 150hp Cessna 172M.

The hoses are certantly cheaper than having an aircraft return to base, even if the engine isn't scrapped. The downside of all the power, is they probably consumed more than an RV-10's total fuel capacity before reaching 10,000'. ;)
 
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