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RV-8 accident - Mandan, ND

rv8ch

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https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20200613X70924

If what is written here turns out to be true this sure looks tragically preventable.

14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, June 13, 2020 in Mandan, ND
Aircraft: Vans RV8, registration: N836JC
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

On June 13, 2020, about 1400 central daylight time, a Vans RV8 airplane, N836JC, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident near Mandan, North Dakota. The pilot sustained fatal injuries. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight.

According to initial information from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), a witness observed the airplane on the ramp prior to the flight and advised the pilot that the rear seat belt was securing the rear control stick. The pilot subsequently departed in the airplane on runway 13 at the Mandan Municipal Airport (Y19), near Mandan, North Dakota. The takeoff was a 3-point takeoff and the airplane subsequently had a steep climb. The airplane descended, impacted terrain, and a ground fire occurred.
 
Oh that's utterly tragic, I drive an 8 and it's the single most concerning issue I am paranoid about, making sure the controls are free at all times as unlike the side by side machines I can't view the rear control stick. Most likely was avoidable this event, RIP��
 
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Years ago there was a fatal RV-6 accident at Arlington WA. caused by the same thing -- in this case it was the passenger side stick.

Because of that accident I have NEVER used the passenger stick to tie back the controls, only the pilot side stick. Something that should universally taught and practiced in RVs IMHO.
 
Who takes off with the stick in full back position.... either way sad to hear

True, and it highlights another aspect of the accident at Arlington. The guy had let himself get hurried by the ground crew urging people to hurry up on account of all the departures from the fly-in. Another lesson there, remember at all times that YOU are the PIC, take that to heart. I can't say I've never been susceptible, but I do my best to remember it.
 
I start my t/o roll stick full back but in the 8 it's just a few seconds then it gets moved fwd. would take about 2 secs to realise something was not right.
 
Because of that accident I have NEVER used the passenger stick to tie back the controls, only the pilot side stick. Something that should universally taught and practiced in RVs IMHO.

+1. I will never use anything that locks the controls that does not happen at the pilot seat. Also my preflight and taxi check list has move control stick full travel on it 3 times (once before engine start so if issue don?t have to shut down, once before taxi, and once as last item on check list before taking active runway)
 
This sickens me...I don't even have my rear stick installed unless I am going to have a pilot passenger. Then I remove it when I get back. I have to move my stick to even get into my seat. I just don't see how you would even intentionally do this.
 
Every takeoff should be proceeded by a full control check. I hammer this into every new pilot I fly with. The Airforce not long ago lost a C130 because they failed to do a control check. Never push the power up for any takeoff unless you have verified the controls are free and correct.
 
i still remember the words on a piper preflight checklist at the flight school in the early 80's ''controls free and correct''
 
Definitely not the first or last time control locks are neglected. The control lock that Allan Nimmo developed let?s you know it?s in place. You can?t do much of anything while it?s in place. Actually, you can barely get in the seat until it?s removed. A sad tale indeed.
 
Definitely not the first or last time control locks are neglected. The control lock that Allan Nimmo developed let?s you know it?s in place. You can?t do much of anything while it?s in place. Actually, you can barely get in the seat until it?s removed. A sad tale indeed.

I have Allan's RV-8 control lock. It may take me 15 minutes to get it installed, but I know I won't forget it!
 
locked controls

During my last BFR:
CFI observed my walk-around, moving/verifying the flight control surfaces.
Later, during after start checks, I again verify flight control movement - free and correct. His method to get me to talk about it was to ask "you checked all that during the walk around; why are you doing it again?" Of course the answer is, with 2 big guys climbing aboard and strapping in, who knows if a bag or kneeboard obstructs the stick, he's got his foot on a rudder cable, a pencil got dropped on the floorboards, seat belt loose end dangling in the wrong place, headset cord wrapped around, etc., etc.
If you haven't seen it before, search youtube for: deHavilland Canada DHC-4 Caribou crash. Said to be attempted take off with gust lock still engaged.
Or check out the CH-701 demo flight videos, where the pilot has a "habit" of frequently "wiping out the cabin" with the stick while taxiing. Overkill, maybe, but I bet he never takes off with the controls locked.

Doug
Seattle area
 
My PPL instructor (uncontrolled field) taught his students, just before crossing the hold-short line, to check the final approach "Final clear" and then the runway "Runway clear" and then controls "controls free and clear" and then roll onto the runway. It's a handy mnenomic and I still use it today because it's useful and it works.
 
B-17 and control lock

For those not aware, the acceptance flight for the B-17 design ended in a fatal crash just after takeoff.

The reason,... the control lock was not removed,.... result.... checklists......

If you care to read more on all kinds of checklists,....read Atul Gawande book “checklist”
 
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With the Vans machines having such well balanced flight controls it's difficult to imagine taxiing without moving the stick a little bit even unintentionally especially if there is any wind about! Control locks are meant to be in full view of the pilot and generally fitted so as not to be able to either start the engine or operate it above idle, securing a control column/stick with a seat belt is a no no anyway!
 
Control lock in place

I used to read the NTSB accident reports often and every year there was one or two crashes because of control locks being in place. Most would over run the end of the runway never even getting into the air.
 
With the Vans machines having such well balanced flight controls it's difficult to imagine taxiing without moving the stick a little bit even unintentionally especially if there is any wind about! Control locks are meant to be in full view of the pilot and generally fitted so as not to be able to either start the engine or operate it above idle, securing a control column/stick with a seat belt is a no no anyway!

On caravans I've seen guys put the control lock in upside down intentionally to prevent scratching the panels with the flag. This puts the flag on the other side of the yoke, safely not scratching up the panel, but not even close to blocking anything.

Fedex lost a caravan to this very thing a number of years ago. No matter how full proof you make something, there is always a way to defeat it.

As far as using the seat belt as a gust lock, on some airplanes, that's the only way to keep them from flopping around as they weren't designed with a gust lock in mind.
 
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.....securing a control column/stick with a seat belt is a no no anyway!

The pilot's seat belt in the RV-6 is a pretty good gust lock and can't be overlooked. I have a more refined lock for extended use but the belt works fine for a lunch stop.

Back to the subject of this thread, the loss of the RV-8 and pilot is a tragedy, our thoughts are with his family and friends......
 
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Once in my 7A I felt that something didn't feel right with the rudder pedals. I don't recall if I was on the ground or airborne. After a little investigating I found the passenger seat belt laying over the right rudder cable. Not locked or anything but laying over it none the less. Now it's part of my checks.
 
Years ago I picked up DT CIGARS from the American Bonanza Society. I usually fly at least a couple of different aircraft every week. DT CIGARS covers most deadly items for GA.

D - Doors (or canopy for us)

T - Trim

C - Controls (all 4 corners)

I - Instruments (heading bug / barro / altitude selector)

G - Gas (pump on and fullest tank)

A - Altitude (initial altitude for IFR or briefed altitude for tun back)

R - Radio (departure / squawk )

S - Safety Belts

This 15 second menomic before crossing the holdshort line has helped me for years in dozens of different aircraft. I at least try and introduce it on each Flight Review
 
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Years ago I picked up DT CIGARS from the American Bonanza Society. I usually fly at least a couple of different aircraft every week. DT CIGARS covers most deadly items for GA.

D - Doors (or canopy for us)

T - Trim

C - Controls (all 4 corners)

I - Instruments (heading bug / barro / altitude selector)

G - Gas (pump on and fullest tank)

A - Altitude (initial altitude for IFR or briefed altitude for tun back)

R - Radio (departure / squawk )

S - Safety Belts

This 15 second mnemonic before crossing the holdshort line has helped me for years in dozens of different aircraft. I at least try and introduce it on each Flight Review

Is this a mnemonic that you're supposed to use taxiing onto the runway? If so, OK. If this is a sort of "checklist" mnemonic, the "R" that I've always heard is runup, which skipping that would be a lot more deadly than mistuned radios..
 
All Too Common!!!

.... This is precisely why we elected to make our Ultimate-Gust-Lock the way we did! I have seen this type
of accident time and time again, and have actually lost three good friends due to forgetting to remove the
gust lock on their aircraft before departure. This type of accident is really a tragedy, and should never ever
happen. My heart goes out to all the loved ones. Regards, Allan
 
Flyinhood: your mnemonic is very close to the one I used in the military and used throughout my corporate flying (and still use in private flying): Here Comes The Flight Safety Officer. I have changed it slightly but it still covers everything as does yours...

Harness, Hydraulics
Canopy, Controls
Trim, Tension, Temperatures, and Pressure
Fuel, Flaps
Switches
Oxygen

All of the mnemonics are good if they cover all the necessary items...

John
 
Posting rule #2

A horrible tragedy. Two words stand out:

PRELIMINARY

and

FATAL


There sure is a lot of speculation going on in this post regarding this accident (rules violation #2 at http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm). By all means offer words of condolence for the family and friends, but let's curb the speculation until the FINAL report comes out. Per the rules.

If you would like to start up a thread in the Safety sub-forum on the importance of checking control locks and using checklists, I can't think of a better thread!

Thanks,
dr
 
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What a needless accident if true. ALWAYS use the checklist I dont care what plane an individual if operating. I use mine everytime including landing. Seems I miss the fuel pump on switch the most
 
Is this a mnemonic that you're supposed to use taxiing onto the runway? If so, OK. If this is a sort of "checklist" mnemonic, the "R" that I've always heard is runup, which skipping that would be a lot more deadly than mistuned radios..

This mnemonic will get you off the runway, on with departure, and in the goo with out the top items that kill pilots.

Forgetting the runup?? I'd like to know how that pilot gets dressed in the morning or successfully drives to the airport?

Having the wrong squawk in or wrong freq for departure on a SID is a bad place to be. I've done that. Single Pilot IFR in RVs has a lot going on. 2 most common FAA violations are Nav and Alt errors.

This mnemonic taught to me by the American Bonanza Society has helped me reduce most deadly items and NASA form opportunities during the busiest part of our flights.

Like Doug said, we don't know what happened yet. But, I'm glad the VAF readers are safety minded to help all of us remember to be careful with our loved hobby on future flights.
 
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On caravans I've seen guys put the control lock in upside down intentionally to prevent scratching the panels with the flag. This puts the flag on the other side of the yoke, safely not scratching up the panel, but not even close to blocking anything.

Fedex lost a caravan to this very thing a number of years ago. No matter how full proof you make something, there is always a way to defeat it.

As far as using the seat belt as a gust lock, on some airplanes, that's the only way to keep them from flopping around as they weren't designed with a gust lock in mind.

Of course there will always be pilots that circumvent such devices, that's called a deliberate irresponsible act, something beyond the makers intentions! I never use my seatbelt, it can get damaged as they are not designed for anything other than holding a person. I have a long length of "hook&Loop" strap that I wrap around the control stick and secure it to the seat frame.
 
CHIFF check

every time, before applying final power I do a CHIFF check

CHIFF

C canopy closed latched, controls free

H Harness secure

I Both ignitions on

F Fuel on, Fuel amount, Fuel correct tank, Boost pump on

F Flaps


This is of course not a full checklist, it is an additional final check of those things that I feel are necessary to double check and are crucial for a take off in the RVs and Rockets that I fly.

Every plane and pilot are different but some things are gotchas for plane and pilot
 
So Sad

My heart and prayers go out to the family. I try to never make a public comment (or private in many cases) about an accident that I have no first hand knowledge of.

With that said, checklists are life savers and I like Doug's new checklist that he posted so I may ask for it when he is ready to share. One thing that we should all keep in mind is the pressure of our surroundings that may keep us from going through our checklist. I remember this one time when our airport was having a fly-in with lots of people watching, several of us wanted to do a tribute flyover in a formation but I was helping with the fly-in on the ground while all the other formation planes were already in the air circling the airport waiting for me. I was very rushed, got in my plane that I had flown a few hours earlier, and didn't check fuel, oil, walk around, etc. Cranked it up and started taxiing. It was a very hot day to boot and like I said, I was rushed. I was making my friends that were circling the airport wait on me and all the spectators were waiting as well. Well, I did a quick run up and moved on to the runway... started applying full throttle and felt this wonderful rush of air in the hot summer heat. . . thought to myself, man that feels good :rolleyes:. Then, a split second before the wheels came off I noticed the my canopy (RV-7 Slider) was just wide open :eek:. Obviously baulk take off, stopped, got off the runway, taxi back and did my checklist and slowed down. At that moment I was more embarrassed than anything else, but it taught me once again not to ever be in a rush to take-off or in a rush to get somewhere. We make bad decisions or just skip over an entire phase of decision making when we are in a hurry, I know I do.
 
[...] checklists are life savers and I like Doug's new checklist that he posted so I may ask for it when he is ready to share. One thing that we should all keep in mind is the pressure of our surroundings that may keep us from going through our checklist. I remember this one time [...]

Yup. I wish I could say I've always been 100% immune to hurry-up-itis, but I can not in all honesty do so. While I know that "I would never make that mistake", I know of at least two instances where the guy probably thought the same thing, and now they're dead.

We build redundancy into our systems, it only makes sense to do that with our processes. I always use my written pre-takeoff checklist including "controls free and correct". But to back that up I never lock down controls using the passenger side. It's a stone simple thing that has no downside and adds to the overall safety margin.
 
Last action before advancing the throttle should be a control check

During the 1950?s there was a gentleman who took his lady friend on a flight in a tandem aircraft. As they took off his controls were jammed and they stalled and crashed with an ensuing fire. Both occupants survived a short while before succumbing that day. The cause of the accident is the lady had worn high heels for the date. While getting into the aircraft unbeknownst to either person the very bottom of her high heel came off leaving the little nail protruding from her heel. As she sat down, the nail penetrated the flooring and pinned the control cable in one spot. That resulted in the loss of control on takeoff unfortunately. Crazy things did and can happen. I suggest the last thing you do before slipping the surly bonds is a complete control check just prior to advancing the throttle. Be safe out there!
 
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