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Get the Stick back-- Get the Stick Back

SHORTRV7

Well Known Member
I’m bringing back an old post because I’m sure there are many that have this problem. I have read about everything there is to read. I have the sticks cut all the way to the bottom and still hit the Aerosport panel. Elevator works through its limits. The F-1089 (the front Elevator Push Rod) was cut to 33” length, to get it off my panel I have to either bend the stick which I do not want to do or adjusted the rod ends and I feel very uncomfortable because there are only a few treads into the VA-111.

Do you see any reason why I couldn’t rebuild the F-1089 an inch longer so the rod end bearings would penetrate further?

__________________
 
I'll be adding wings this weekend and doing final alignment of all control surfaces. I will soon find out how much my cut-off sticks hit the Aerosport 310 panel and what must be done about it.

When I get it figured out I will try to remember to post results here. Hoping it's just a few control stops and Heim joint adjustments, not a new push tube fabrication.
 
Thanks Bill, I think I answered my own question, making it longer causes interference with the cross over rod 🙃
Think I will look at shorting the lower portion of the stick and possibly bending the stick somewhat
 
Here is how much I shortened the bottom. No changes to the pushrods, just had to play with adjustments. I also added a limit stop to the elevator.

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Thanks Bill, do you recall about how much of the lower part of the stick you cut off? My guess is about an inch.
 
I also had to cut my sticks down to get proper clearance. I followed what some folks did by cutting the last 1-1/2" off the bottom of the curve. I wasn't happy with that so I ended up sleeving it and welding the piece back on. Then I cut the top of the stick down. I still needed to play a lot with the linkage rod end bearings to get clearance of the IP and still get full travel. Be very careful backing out those rod end bearings so you still have at least the minimum thread engagement. I marked mine with a fine sharpie and unscrewed them to verify the thread engagement count.
 
You can also bend the stick by filling it with sand so it can’t kink, trace it on a piece of cardboard so you see progress, use a hydraulic press to incrementally manipulate the curve. Worked great to keep mine from hitting the panel.
 
The elevator stop is key to forward stick travel. The elevator travels more than the spec calls for. I could not get it to clear without limiting the travel to the Vans spec. My stick is cut down as much as possible on both the top and the bottom and it clears fine. Be careful of the thread engagement of the rod ends!
 
Thanks for all the responses, I’ll confirm Elevator down degrees and work my way back to the stick.
 
Thanks for all the responses, I’ll confirm Elevator down degrees and work my way back to the stick.
Don't forget to leave space between the stick for whatever grip you'll use, your fingers wrapped around it, and a little bit of margin for flex.
 
Put the wings and empennage back on after several years -

I'm getting 25 degrees down and 30 up elevator travel with the push tubes connected. Next step is to install the control sticks and see if they hit the panel. I'm not sure what is establishing the down elevator travel limit at the moment, but there's no control stop in place at the elevator horns - nothing is hitting a mechanical stop that I can see. I suspect a push tube or bell crank in the tunnel is limiting the travel at this point, and I haven't pulled things apart to see.

Is a control stop needed if the linkages already constrain the elevator travel? I don't recall one in the plans, but might've overlooked it.
 
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The down stop is the F-1011B while the up stop is the F-1012D (see section 10). If either is not positioned to stop the elevator horns, then you will want to make some adjustments. You don't want the binding of the linkages to provide the stopping action. A piece of aluminum bar stock sandwiching the F-1014 with the stop piece needing adjustment would be my recommendation, rather than trying to move the pre-fabricated stop pieces. The bar would not be structural and would not need to tie into the longerons; the three or four rivets tying it into the existing stop piece would be sufficient.

Also, if your linkages are binding at the control limits, you should readjust them to prevent that. I'd expect to find such binding at the bellcrank (not the idler, stick, or control horns). To adjust the stick position initially, the bellcrank should be vertical with the stick in neutral position and F-1090 adjusted (helps if the idler is also vertical), then adjust F-1091 for neutral elevator. Next, check the full down position. If the stick is interfering with your panel, shorten the F-1090 by a half turn, then the F-1091 by two half turns, repeating the sequence of half turns until you have the desired panel clearance. Then return to the neutral position and be sure the idler is vertical or adjust the F-1089 and F-1090 until it is. Finally, check the full up position to be sure you haven't caused a problem there (not likely). Adjusting by half turns is another of those tedious iterative processes common to homebuilding aircraft. You should be following a similar process for the aileron linkages to be sure they are neutral with the stick centered and also that they have identical up/down travel.
 
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Thanks for the pointers!

New issue - adding the control sticks to the system has (as many have experienced) decreased the travel of the system overall. Now able to get 30 degrees up elevator, but only 17 degrees down before they hit the Aerosport 310 switch rows.

About to get an unwanted education in tubing bending in the home workshop.
 
Again wanted to thank for help, this forum is amazing, getting pictures up is not fun!


Harbor Freight Press


Con off 1 inch off the bottom


Measured and test fitted each time I bent stick


I was able to let the bottom of the stick ride in the press without it moving


I put this 1” collar over the bottom filled the stick with sand, taped to keep sand inside


Collar is a must to prevent bending the end
 
Stick Bending Question

Installed the sticks today with an Aerosport panel and Tosten grips. It was not surprise that the sticks hit the panel knobs. I have cut the sticks off at bottom and top as recommended by others. After much adjustment of the control rods, the best I could get was the minimum 20 degrees down on elevator, but only 22.5 degrees up. Can re-adjust rods to get the minimum of 25 degrees up, but then the sticks hits the knobs on panel.

So..... It looks like I'll have to bend the sticks some. Here's my question, I have a "pipe bender" (the kind plumbers use to bend conduit) not a hydraulic type. It has the right size head for the pipe, but not sure it's robust enough...

Has anyone used a non-hydraulic pipe bender to bend the sticks with any success? I want to save the $100 it will cost me to buy the Harbor Freight version for a "one time" use.
 
Use a shorter grip

Clive in New Zealand http://www.compositesinternational.co.nz/gallery/ sells a shorter stick grip that doesn’t require bending the stick to clear the panel. It’s ambidextrous and uses an Otto trim hat and switches like the Infinity grips. It has less switches on it but to me that’s a good thing. Clive is awesome to deal with too.
I built my own panel but it’s just as tall as the Aerosport one and I have no interference between it and the stick grips. It’s not just about down elevator travel, down right corner ( in the left seat) can also be a problem.

Lenny
 
Note

Just an FYI.

Kevin over at Tosten is machining a bushing that will angle the grip back about 7 degrees. I probably have the worst case scenario, as I have the Aerosport symetrical panel with Honeywell TL locking switches and have not bent my control sticks.

I was able to get 28.5 degrees up and about 19.5 degrees down. The grip has about 3/16” clearance on the switches when on the down stop.

Something to consider...
 
So..... It looks like I'll have to bend the sticks some. Here's my question, I have a "pipe bender" (the kind plumbers use to bend conduit) not a hydraulic type. It has the right size head for the pipe, but not sure it's robust enough...


Randy I would try and put sand in the pipe
 
Just an FYI.

Kevin over at Tosten is machining a bushing that will angle the grip back about 7 degrees. I probably have the worst case scenario, as I have the Aerosport symetrical panel with Honeywell TL locking switches and have not bent my control sticks.

I was able to get 28.5 degrees up and about 19.5 degrees down. The grip has about 3/16” clearance on the switches when on the down stop.

Something to consider...

I made one of these bushings on the lathe and they are very effective. They change the angle of the grip, but not enough to be uncomfortable in use.

Larry
 
Angled bush for Tosten stick grips

Just another data point...

I made a replacement bush for the Tosten grips, where the bore (to accept the shaft of the Tosten grip) is angled about 8 degrees back. This increases the clearance between the instrument panel and the grip by about 3/4" - 7/8".

This is not critical for us as we have the standard Vans instrument panel, but it improves the ergonomics of the grip as it moves it to a more natural vertical orientation, rather than its standard angled forward fit.

<<not sure how attaching link to Google Photos will work... here's hoping...>>

Before: Tosten grip with standard bush
ACtC-3dAoofTL9ZdEAcMgLlwZ0by_VrXpdZt7-8Br793K7Gas4PKnRBjR-IGJQzpgQpJkWHJbSWH6QTkLZwERI8Q2mypE_1P6ktrZ_g2o8RwbQxVUEH1ZhR5b1KRAZ17911J-Iv5w6Jfu9In44X3vMEBHSAy=w484-h910-no



Before: blue line showing outline of standard fit
ACtC-3cLTjHOKB7DmbHjQKLgED7SQCRLv2zN4mWPNoLFWfeBu7mCw_eYGcM8stRYPommWcpt4cgHvjkQhuWa6K45Xt7msjCB5YI4ZhTL13-pCfT8NOIpwIkLbXThof2HPSA1M1bnCFljt6nda8hqVLTr3NO8=w611-h910-no


After: Tosten with angled bush:
ACtC-3e_nxJZK4hh6wEzQ2YBGDnVrx7j_1gdOJo-zgSp2P_H77rALIJSwy5vMO59NFPnwxLMewvJXhAVsj0FkrabRJw2OZjWIKnC7r-j_X3xprhTPcXXVwXsKgExTvWUisdMWWS1RryvKdMsKmjtdrSdPfTa=w624-h910-no


After: approx increase in clearance
ACtC-3dWnI7kaMCSIPlvQ05XYZKIu5jQ_UzhLlHBdEfrPN-I8a5WF8PgJB1V_14lG8Sbqe7JWwleMoXo-DgNnqZpCLnQlZxmUpTuDERNDYmDZ14kPG7_oQdto99drRv6xgauwoVcmCU2iZJg-s0fsK3Nchdf=w749-h910-no


Cheers

Andy
 
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I have also made angled bushings for my VR10 with the Tosten grip. I have also made sets for a number of other builders.

You can get up to 18 degrees back angle in the bushing without any modifications to the stick. Add to that cutting the bottom and top of the stick you can get enough clearance for almost any IP
 
Sure

Sure, I can make another set. PM me your information and I'll get a set made. I already have another set that needs to go out last week.
 
Sure, I can make another set. PM me your information and I'll get a set made. I already have another set that needs to go out last week.

You know there will be other request for these bushings.... ;-) PM sent!

-Marc
 
So..... It looks like I'll have to bend the sticks some. Here's my question, I have a "pipe bender" (the kind plumbers use to bend conduit) not a hydraulic type. It has the right size head for the pipe, but not sure it's robust enough...


Randy I would try and put sand in the pipe

Randy,
Two things we have to discuss. One is plumbers are not smart enough to bend conduit, leave that to the electricians 😉. Second thing is there is someone on here that can make a new mounting bushing for the grip. It angles the grip back a couple degrees so it doesn't hit the panel. If you do a search I bet it will come up.
 
Need Bushings Too

Sure, I can make another set. PM me your information and I'll get a set made. I already have another set that needs to go out last week.

Leok - Just sent you a PM with message/contact info. Could I get a set of bushings as well?

Thanks!
Rob
 
Randy,
Two things we have to discuss. One is plumbers are not smart enough to bend conduit, leave that to the electricians 😉. Second thing is there is someone on here that can make a new mounting bushing for the grip. It angles the grip back a couple degrees so it doesn't hit the panel. If you do a search I bet it will come up.

The only thing I love more than making stupid statements in a public forum is having someone calling me out on it. :) I have an offset bushing on the way! Hopefully it'll be enough to clear panel. I have put a leather sport wrap on my sticks and REALLY don't want to have to undo it to bend a stick.
 

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Update on stick clearance...

Thought I'd share my recent experience on this topic as it seems there was no "one size fits all" solution. I tried ALL the suggestions listed, but in the end it took all of them to get it right. If I had to do it over again, I would have started with bending the sticks, which is where it ended up anyway.

Here's my setup (see pic before sticks installed), Aerosport 10" EFIS panel. This panel has a section to right that "tilts" the radio stack toward the pilot. Also have Tosten CS-8 grips. These grips are different than the military style or Ray Allen grips in that they "tilt" more forward than other grips. This will add to the clearance issues if you choose this style grip. If I were doing it again, I'd still choose this style grip, because I like the looks and feel of it. It was worth the effort.

Attempt 1: Cut down sticks (top and bottom) and adjust control rod bearing lengths.... Was able to get stick clearance by adjusting elevator control rod ends only, but was not able to get enough deflection of elevator. 14 degrees down, 21 degrees up. Also, elevator up stop became the seat frame, not the stops in the tail.

Attempt 2: Offset bushing... Received an 8 degree bushing from Tosten. Was able to get clearance on pilot side with the bushing and adjusting control rod bearings. In this set up, got 18.5 degrees down and 25 degrees up on elevator. However, it hit a radio knob on right side. Needed something more.

Attempt 3: Buy tube bender at Harbor Freight for $120. (I was really trying to avoid buying this 1 use tool.) This thing worked GREAT! I was surprised at how much of a bend it took with the tool simply due to the spring back of the stick once pressure was release. Was now able to get 20 degrees down and full 30 degrees up elevator deflection.

Because I cut some off the bottom, I also ran into a spot on each side where the stick would rub against the seat frame. I had to file some of it off to get clearance throughout the entire left / right swing of stick while pulling full up.

Conclusion... There is not one fix that will solve everyone's clearance issues. I like the 8 degree offset bushing because it changes the tilt of the CS-8 grip to be more upright. This simply feels more natural in the hand. But, I could have solved this problem by cutting and then bending the sticks from the beginning.
 

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Good summary, Randy

I ended up pretty much where you did - stick cut off, bent in the HF bender, Infinity Aerospace grips but no bushings - adjusted linkages for 30 degrees up and 20 degrees down elevator using the tail stops as intended. A little rubbing of the under-seat panel hole edges happened at first. Full forward and right stick will bump a knob on my Avidyne navigator ever so slightly. If I ever need full forward and right stick in flight, I think I will have far bigger worries than a volume knob getting bumped - like watching pieces depart the airframe...

I hope to find some other use someday for the $120 Harbor Freight bender. :rolleyes:

Like I said earlier - this is such a well-known issue with the popular AeroSport panels and thicker stick grips that the mothership should consider offering an optional stick with different geometry.
 
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