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Old 08-05-2019, 07:30 PM
ksauce ksauce is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lititz, PA
Posts: 189

Originally Posted by joe gremlin View Post
I was looking hard at the S-21. But even with 180hp you're not going to see 140kts or better out of an S-21. At least not unless Rans is being very pessimistic about the speed numbers they report.
Before I gave up flying, I called Randy and asked him about eeking out 140 knots from the 21. Even the smaller tires in the kit are pretty large. We talked about putting RV-10 mains and pants on it. Maybe you do some intersection fairings for the struts. With that, he felt you could maybe get to 140kts. If I were going for all out speed, I'd put the 915iS in it and cruise way up high.

He also said it wouldn't be out of the question to chop the wings if you really want to get more speed. I looked at the drawings and it didn't look THAT hard.

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Old 08-06-2019, 11:14 AM
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ScottSchmidt ScottSchmidt is offline
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,158

Originally Posted by Mel View Post
That would be MOAC, (Mother Of All Cubs).
Yup, thanks for the correction.
I spent a long time at that booth and really liked the plane. They did a great job designing it.
In the end, the RV's are still the overall winner.
Scott Schmidt
Salt Lake City, UT

RV-10 N104XP (1280 Hours)
RV-12 N321UT (Sold)
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:04 PM
z987k z987k is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Alaska
Posts: 38

Originally Posted by ScottSchmidt View Post
I completely agree with the need for a good 4 seat backcountry plane. I walked around Oshkosh looking for anything new and the best I saw was the new Legend MACO. It has 3 seats and some great numbers. It is another 150k-250k cub as a kit. For a two seat the Highlander and Kitfox are amazing and can be built for 80k with ease. That S-21 is one really nice plane too. Not the STOL as the Highlander or Kitfox but I really like the balance of cruise vs STOL.

The only thing really close is the Bearhawk but it is just too small. And the Draco kit is just too complicated.

I just don't know if it is possible to make a 3000 lb plane that can land and takeoff in 100ft. That is what people with these planes want to do. And if you can't land that short then your landing at all the strips that a current RV can get into.
The bearhawk is too small? Compared to a 206, sure. I'm not sure what is bigger or can haul more.

The Helio Courier is 3600lbs and can take off and land as short as anything out there, certainly sub 100ft without a full load just like every bush plane youtube video that bears no resemblance to real bush flying. That is the you tube stars are complete empty and real bush flying is at or beyond max gross.. All metal, 6 seats.

Last edited by z987k : 12-15-2019 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:36 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,347

The RV-3 update is called a "Panther." While Van's doesn't sell it, it's readily available now from another vendor, and comes in several versions.

Originally Posted by Paragon View Post
....The aircraft [Veri-Eze] has swept main wings that are complex and unnecessary....
If you think the sweep is unnecessary on a Vari-Eze or similar airplane, you should work through the static longitudinal stability math.

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Old 12-15-2019, 06:21 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,837

Originally Posted by E. D. Eliot View Post
I don't know why the RV-12 apparently isn't being flown much as a trainer.
The RV12 nose gear is totally inadequate for ab initio training....just not robust enough to put up with the punishment. Cessna made the same mistake with their now defunct 162 Skycatcher.
You’re only as good as your last landing
Bob Barrow
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:35 PM
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PaulvS PaulvS is offline
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 258
Default RangerR7

The Vashon Ranger is an all metal high wing with Continental O-200D , designed for training and back country, by Ken Krueger ex-Vans. It is factory built LSA... not a kit. It has been on the market since mid 2018, I wonder how it will fare? I think that if Vans made a high wing LSA then it might be like the Ranger.
Paul vS (yes I'm also a Van)
Building RV-6A #22320 O-320 FP. Wings and tail complete, working on fuselage
Flying the aero club's RV-9A while I build
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:35 AM
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jnorris jnorris is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oshkosh
Posts: 200

Originally Posted by PaulvS View Post
The Vashon Ranger is an all metal high wing with Continental O-200D , designed for training and back country, by Ken Krueger ex-Vans. It is factory built LSA... not a kit. It has been on the market since mid 2018, I wonder how it will fare? I think that if Vans made a high wing LSA then it might be like the Ranger.
The biggest drawback I can see on the Ranger is that it is a little short on useful load. About the same as a Cessna Skycatcher, which is to say, not a lot. This is a problem with a lot of the LSA choices, and where Van's RV-12 is a cut above. When dealing with an aircraft that is limited to 1320 lbs max gross, it's trough to keep the empty weight down to where a decent useful load is available and still have the rugged structure that we're talking about here. It will be interesting to see how the Ranger fares in the marketplace. Looks like a nice airplane, but better for small (i.e. light) people!

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Old 01-18-2020, 01:04 AM
MikeThePilot MikeThePilot is offline
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Morinville, AB, Canada
Posts: 11

I've been a huge fan of the Vashon Ranger R7 since first seeing that cool vinyl wrap and basic robust design. The useful load is definitely the major, maybe only significant drawback. But, after reading up on everything I could about it, I'm convinced it is designed for a much higher gross weight, and is limited only by their desire to sell it as an LSA. If it were to be offered as a kit, it could not only have a higher gross weight, but builders could have other engine options to give it a bit more power. Or throw in a rotax, like all the O-200D haters are saying Vashon should have.

Last edited by MikeThePilot : 01-20-2020 at 02:38 AM.
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