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Emergency Landings, Beach or Breakers?

From someone who had to crash a Seneca into the ocean I'm glad I didn't take out the people sleeping in tents on the beach.
 
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He mentions the RV-7 that put it in the water after the midair and how the pilot made it out okay. If I remember right a big big part of that was people running into the water to lift the plane enough to get him out. I personally do not want to be upside down in an RV trying to get through the canopy in water. I guess if there are people on the beach that's the only option though.
 
Beach first, deep water second, breakers last resort.

Being trapped upside down in 2 feet of water would be about the worst way to die, I think
 
Beach first, deep water second, breakers last resort.

Being trapped upside down in 2 feet of water would be about the worst way to die, I think

Honestly, my greatest fear is being trapped upside down, on fire. Trying to do everything I can to avoid it, short of staying on the ground.
 
Thats why I sold my tip up and went to a slider. Pros and cons for both but i just feel a little safer now.
 
IMHO, if you're upside down on dirt, mud, sand or concrete, then slider, tipup or throwover canopy doesn't matter... You're going through the Plexi or aluminum to get out.
 
Beach first, deep water second, breakers last resort.

Being trapped upside down in 2 feet of water would be about the worst way to die, I think

That's a hard call. . If you go deep water, it may take a lot longer for help to arrive. . The breakers may get you help faster, but I do agree that I would rather be on dry land first. .even upside down on the beach is better than right side up in the water to me!
 
Lose the canopy before you ditch. Deep water is better as most RVs will flip over on ditching. Landing on the beach is entirely dependent on the texture of the beach. Hard, level sand is a good option as long as it isn't covered in people. Soft sand almost ensure an inverted finish.
 
Not confident I could open my slider in flight, and if I did I?m thinking it could possibly take out the tail as it?s ripped off the rails.

As I think through this scenario, I often wonder if it would be wise to use my canopy breaker tool and chip away at it as I glide down to the water. This way if I end up on my back all I gotta do is release the belt and swim away. The risk would be getting cut on the remaining shards of plexi, bleeding out, and getting eaten by a great white shark.
 
Speed of opening

I am thinking with a slider that it could be opened once the plane is slowed down just before hitting the water. Although it might slam close when the plane hits. Also if the canopy is open and the plane flips on the beach, then the sand comes in and that would not be pleasant. So water landing i would be inclined to open, sand landing i would be inclined to leave it closed. But that is just me YMMV
 
I choose option C: Point the airplane to open water and Parachute to safety.:) Just make sure its a Softie :D

Especially the guys in the Red Pitts...geezz, you know they must have had parachutes on. And a Cub with that big (already) open door... "come on"..;)

Too many guys dying in airplane crashes and not enough bailing out to safety, that's what I think. We need to change the mindset which will then change the statistical outcome.

Great Video Btw. That was extremely well done!
 
I am thinking with a slider that it could be opened once the plane is slowed down just before hitting the water. Although it might slam close when the plane hits.
That's exactly what happened in the video of the RV-7 going into the water.

Someone suggested being upside down and on fire would be the worst, I tend to agree. At least going into deeper water might put out the fire.
 
How about this for a possible water landing strategy - just above contact, stall with one wing low to dig into the water, hopefully causing the aircraft into (ground) loop motion with the opposite wing helping to prevent a roll over.
In reality - if I ever find myself in this impossible water landing situation, and can get past the white knuckle/open mouth/wide eyes/terror locked seized grip on the controls.. to prepare and execute the perfect procedure, well, you get the picture.

If I ever actually am in the position to test this technique, I'll let you know how well it all worked out, if I'm not fish food of course.
 
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Ground loop

The trouble I see with an intentional ?ground? loop is that the RVs have very little moment of inertia about the yaw axis. If a wingtip touches first, it will probably be a very violent yaw. And there are no restraints, soft neck supports, or head restraints for yaw. Unless you are an ex F1 driver use to hi g turns, I suspect most of us will wind up with serious neck injuries. JMO
 
How about this for a possible water landing strategy - just above contact, stall with one wing low to dig into the water, hopefully causing the aircraft into (ground) loop motion with the opposite wing helping to prevent a roll over.

Honestly i've thought about this quite a bit, and my gut feeling is that if it were executed right it could be the better way to go. The trick would be getting it just right, in a high-stress environment... It's not like we could practise it. I suspect it's equally likely that you'd start the wing drop too high, and end up cartwheeling the plane across the top of the water, which will react like a grass runway until your speed gets below 40mph or so.

Either way, as was pointed out, the rotational impulse will wreak havoc on your head, neck, and spine without supports and padding...
 
The damp sand just above the waterline would be my first choice. There will usually be a 90 degree crosswind so direction doesn't make much difference.
 
I choose option C: Point the airplane to open water and Parachute to safety.:) Just make sure its a Softie :D

Especially the guys in the Red Pitts...geezz, you know they must have had parachutes on. And a Cub with that big (already) open door... "come on"..;)

Too many guys dying in airplane crashes and not enough bailing out to safety, that's what I think. We need to change the mindset which will then change the statistical outcome.

Great Video Btw. That was extremely well done!

In my younger days, I had to get out of a friend's Pitts that had an airframe failure.. It was surprisingly easy to decide to get out.. We weren't going to make it home IN the plane, so this was the last place I wanted to be. Canopy gone, grab the top wing, and bye bye..
 
Thanks for sharing Doug.

I have several other customers that have bailed out too. There were 6 guys that bailed out in 2018 alone. It's doable.

Funny thing is...most of the resistance I hear comes from the RV crowd. "No one has ever bailed out of one of these", "You couldn't get the canopy open anyway", "The canopy would tear the tail off", "You wouldn't have time". All the usual stuff but always more prevalent with the RV crowd, for some reason.

I wore a parachute for almost all of the 500 hours I put on my RV3 and there was _never_ a doubt in my mind that I would / could parachute to safety if I had to. Every emergency is different and some circumstances conspire against you, sometimes absolutely, but it all starts with a mindset.
 
In my younger days, I had to get out of a friend's Pitts that had an airframe failure.. It was surprisingly easy to decide to get out..
A decision made a lot easier by the fact that it wasn't *your* airplane. Making the leap to "the insurance company owns it now" or even "If I don't get out I will die" is a lot harder when it's your money and/or your multi-year build project going into the drink.
 
If you wear a parachute, strap in as if you mean to use it. Some of you may recall Rudy Frasca of Frasca Aviation lost a son via a bailout. He was ferrying for a friend an aerobatic plane to the next event.

Experienced a spar failure, bailed and fell through the chute...it was discovered he never strapped into the leg straps.

By the way, for those of you whom may have known Rudy, Rudy passed away about a month ago.

Also By the way...the ditching video was excellent!
 
Why so many?

...I have several other customers that have bailed out too. There were 6 guys that bailed out in 2018 alone. It's doable.

Funny thing is...most of the resistance I hear comes from the RV crowd. "No one has ever bailed out of one of these", "You couldn't get the canopy open anyway", "The canopy would tear the tail off", "You wouldn't have time". All the usual stuff but always more prevalent with the RV crowd, for some reason.
...
Any idea why so many people are bailing out? I have only heard of 2 or 3 cases where someone needed to bail out of an RV due to engine fire or structural failure or collision. I don't recall any that have been successful.
 
3 crashes, Pilot and PAX bailed out in each instance.

Engine failure over very inhospitable terrain.

Spin testing that wouldn't recover (test pilots)

Rudder control failure in flight.

Bottom line: 6 guys went home and hugged the kids and kissed the wife.
 
3 crashes, Pilot and PAX bailed out in each instance.

Engine failure over very inhospitable terrain.

Spin testing that wouldn't recover (test pilots)

Rudder control failure in flight.

Bottom line: 6 guys went home and hugged the kids and kissed the wife.


Any more details? Were these tip-ups or sliders?
 
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