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wing pins

olderthandirt

Well Known Member
I have viewed video from Van's showing installing wing in five minutes..ha...I cannot get pins in no matter what...one wing in pins go in fine...both wings in and no way is pins going in...so ordered exhaust pipe expander..hope like **** this lines them all up so pins go in..I think once wings are on..will never take them off...
 
I have had my wings off several times with just myself and an inexperienced helper. No problems at all. Try feeling inside the bushings to assist lineup prior to inserting the pins. Also it is important to remove / install wings in correct sequence. Follow the Van's "five minute" video to see which wing removed first / which wing installed first. This permits installing the pins halfway in order to hold first wing in position while second wing is being fitted. Take your time and don't force anything. Don't use any tooling which will scratch or deform the bushings in any way. Safety first...

In fact, I’m going to remove my wings just to simplify cleaning and waxing the bottom surfaces. Wings will go into rolling wing rack with bottom sides facing out. I plan on doing this a couple of times each year.
 
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Check for wing skin to fuselage interference

One suggestion would be to check for interference between the bottom wing skin and the fuselage in the area where the F-1270 A&D doublers are located. When fitting my wings for the first time it was a tight fit and upon inspection discovered the bottom wing skins were touching the doublers.

This may not be your issue but it is something to check.

Happy building,
 
For me, the exhaust pipe expander works great for pulling the first spar pin opening into alignment -- it doesn't take much pressure (thankfully since you wouldn't want to over-expand the spar pin holes). As noted above, use your fingers to determine how much and in what direction you need to move the wing tips to align the second hole. Also, be very careful that the wing goes in straight or you will end up slicing the wing root gasket into two pieces. Once in place, I am happy to leave the wings installed until the next Condition Inspection.
 
Suggestion

After painting/wing seals installed I was having more difficulty getting wing pins in too. Removed seats, and leaned all the way into the baggage area to look back through the pin holes. Mirror didn't work as well as getting you head in there to adjust and confirm the alignment was just right. Needed to be almost perfect in order for that pin to make it all the way through.
 
I had a bit of difficulty at first. First problem was a couple of the rivets on the spar interfered with the slots in the side skins. Opened up the slot a little. Next the spar contacted the F-1204H bulkhead cap. A little more filing got the
spars almost there, but those pins weren't going to play. I then loosened the bolts holding the F-1204C retainer blocks ( those little plastic blocks on each side), and the pins pushed home with hand pressure only.
I took a millipoopth( very small metric measure:D) off those blocks on a scotch brite wheel, and all was good. Take your time fitting and checking. I don't think you should need brute force or tailpipe expanders, just careful, methodical fitting.
I suspect many wing fitting issues result from the 'rough punched' spars. They are not totally consistant, unlike almost every other part on the RV12. Vans seem to have tackled this with the newer spars.
Worked for me
Have fun
DaveH 120485
 
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Dave reminded me ... I too had an issue where the spars were touching the F-1204H bulkhead cap and needed to be filed a little. Had forgotten all about that.
 
Wow, I can't believe the force some are using to get the pins in. If you can't get them in, you have an interference somewhere. It takes a methodical approach to check everything in order to get them to align. For me that meant cleaning up two interference points. First, the electrical connector on the wing was hitting the removable plate on the fuselage on each side. Just a teenie tiny bit. I filed the plates to open it up a little. Second was the side skins AFTER I had applied the foam along the wing/fuselage mating point. My skin was too long and would not compress the foam fully to allow the wing to fully slide in. I trimmed an eighth off the skin to fix.

Now, the wings slide in, engage in the electrical pin, and then the metal holding pins can be tapped in softly with a rubber hammer. Actually, I can slowly rotate them and slide them in by hand.

Just FYI.
 
Wow, I can't believe the force some are using to get the pins in. If you can't get them in, you have an interference somewhere...

Just FYI.

Not quite so! I cannot speak for others but once you have eliminated any potential interference the force you need to align the holes to get the pins in are the result of the compression of the wing root seals. In my opinion to do this the exhaust pipe extender does a better, smoother job than a mallet tapping on the pin.
 
Thanks to everyone for replying

I ordered the exhaust pipe expanders..today I put it in and what a great day it is the pins went in..and out...it was only off by thousands..but could not make pins go in..but with expanders it made it easy..thanks to all who responded and offered suggestions...the web makes it so much easier..especially since I live on Island and help is none existant..except for next island Mike...thanks
 
exhaust pipe expander

Exhaust pipe expander came today, put it in and pin on other side slid in..took expander out and pin fit just fine..what a amazingly easy way to fix a small problem...thanks for help
 
I learned three things so far with my wings. First off I fought the "inner skin" keeping things from where they should be. It is something you cannot see easily and don't even know it is keeping the wing from going home. The second was to skotchbrite the tapered end of the wing pins, makes it go in far easier and without damage. The third, and I do NOT have the rubber seals on my plane yet, is a tool I made in the lathe shown below. You just stick it in, with the offset part into the stubborn wing, then put a screwdriver in the small hole and it will suck it right in to position;
s2xpxs.jpg
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Cool Tool

I've "fought" my wings onto the plane a couple of times so far using a combination of finese and "convincing" with a mallet. Then the change came out to trim the wing skins out to 3/16 vs. 1.8, made it better. Then I discovered that some "proud" rivets on the stub spars were catching on the fuse skins, so I radiused and/or stop drilled those spots on the fuse skins and shaved down the protruding rivet shop heads on the stub spars. Now with the gap seals installed it'll be time for "convincing" again i'm sure. Generally I try to avoid brute force under the theory that if a piece of Van's kit doesn't got together "like it grew there" then there must be something wrong that needs to be addressed to avoid breaking or distorting something. <deep breath> However, I'm kinda warming up to Don's tool with the eccentric lobe on it. I figure that using the screwdriver to turn the thing gives you a better tactile feel that things are coming into position smoothly (though maybe requiring some force) vs. having some parts come to a "hard stop" that you wouldn't be able to feel with the pipe expander. So Don, how must would one of those ingenious items cost? Don, ol' buddy? <grin>.
 
Prouid Rivets on main spar

Still building my wings and notice that many of the factory installed rivets on the main spar sit up to 1/32 inch proud of the flat surface of the spar. Should I anticipate that I will have to shave them down to flush or??? Just interested to know how mine compare to those who have had to shave either the rivets or fuselage skins or both. Advise please.
 
Well, you can never tell about me, I have made a total of 6 of them already, and everyone loves them.

I've "fought" my wings onto the plane a couple of times so far using a combination of finese and "convincing" with a mallet. Then the change came out to trim the wing skins out to 3/16 vs. 1.8, made it better. Then I discovered that some "proud" rivets on the stub spars were catching on the fuse skins, so I radiused and/or stop drilled those spots on the fuse skins and shaved down the protruding rivet shop heads on the stub spars. Now with the gap seals installed it'll be time for "convincing" again i'm sure. Generally I try to avoid brute force under the theory that if a piece of Van's kit doesn't got together "like it grew there" then there must be something wrong that needs to be addressed to avoid breaking or distorting something. <deep breath> However, I'm kinda warming up to Don's tool with the eccentric lobe on it. I figure that using the screwdriver to turn the thing gives you a better tactile feel that things are coming into position smoothly (though maybe requiring some force) vs. having some parts come to a "hard stop" that you wouldn't be able to feel with the pipe expander. So Don, how must would one of those ingenious items cost? Don, ol' buddy? <grin>.
 
I've "fought" my wings onto the plane a couple of times so far using a combination of finese and "convincing" with a mallet. Then the change came out to trim the wing skins out to 3/16 vs. 1.8, made it better. Then I discovered that some "proud" rivets on the stub spars were catching on the fuse skins, so I radiused and/or stop drilled those spots on the fuse skins and shaved down the protruding rivet shop heads on the stub spars. Now with the gap seals installed it'll be time for "convincing" again i'm sure. Generally I try to avoid brute force under the theory that if a piece of Van's kit doesn't got together "like it grew there" then there must be something wrong that needs to be addressed to avoid breaking or distorting something. <deep breath> However, I'm kinda warming up to Don's tool with the eccentric lobe on it. I figure that using the screwdriver to turn the thing gives you a better tactile feel that things are coming into position smoothly (though maybe requiring some force) vs. having some parts come to a "hard stop" that you wouldn't be able to feel with the pipe expander. So Don, how must would one of those ingenious items cost? Don, ol' buddy? <grin>.

Don,

If you are so inclined...let me know the cost and consider me in😎
 
Mee Tooo

Well there ya go...I sold two more for ya.
One for me and one for Ric!
Send me a PM for the price and shipping.
Thanks!
 
I think this is a very common problem, just not yet discovered by everyone. You cannot see what the problem is, so people have used elaborate means to "force" the wing in, when this little bit of inner skin is the whole problem. I know I discovered it by accident after investigating why I was having trouble. If you have your wings off, you can see if that has been a problem, that inner skin will be distorted if it has been dragging there, at least mine was.
 
Yup, an old problem

I posted this picture in the forum in Feb of 2009...thats 7 years ago. I was not the first to find this clearance issue, one of the really early guys found it, maybe Marty. So I took a sixteenth inch off before assembling the parts. I don't remember if I forwarded the issue to Van's but I think I would have. I don't think all the planes had an issue, but some certainly do.

i-6Xz3W7P-M.jpg
 
Don,

If you're willing to make a batch of your offset lobe wing tool, count me in for one. A great idea, especially when you have to install the wings by yourself.

John Warren
RV12 124RN
 
More PinCam benefits

Yah, and even if you're not installing them alone a little help on the alignment would be welcomed since you don't have much leverage on the thing when you are in position to install pins.

Combine that with occasional communication difficulties with a helper when trying to get the stub spars perpendicular to the centerline while at the same time getting the wingtip raised or lowered to align the holes..."I said forward, OK toward the front then, Now AFT...no back...NOT OUT...never mind the dog...OUCH"

Don, your PinCam could save at least one marriage!
 
I have no help so I have put the wings on and off several times, all by myself, that necessity was the mother of the invention:)
It don't seem to be necessary now that I removed that offending portion of the inner skin that was giving me troubles, but I suspect that when I get the rubber seal on, it will prove to be useful again.
 
The kit supplied seal works very well (and doesn't appreciably effect wing installation difficulty) if the procedure for marking and trimming the wings skins for a specific constant gap as detailed in the construction manual is followed.
 
Combine that with occasional communication difficulties with a helper when trying to get the stub spars perpendicular to the centerline while at the same time getting the wingtip raised or lowered to align the holes..."I said forward, OK toward the front then, Now AFT...no back...NOT OUT...never mind the dog...OUCH"

An additional benefit of the kit supplied seal.....

Since it is mounted on the side of the fuselage it acts as a guide for aligning the wing properly..... with a little practice the person handing the wingtip can get good at using it as a sighting device (in relation to the root end of the wing) to determine proper wing sweep and pitch once the wing is nearly but nor quite fully inserted (without someone else doing the play by play narrative for them.....).
 
Alignment Aid

Good Point Scott!
I'll suggest that to my main helper (and far better Half) next time.

And I concur, the supplied seal works just fine now that I've re-trimmed the wing skins per updated procedure (3/16" vs. former 1/8" gap)
 
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