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RV Commuter

DrDrift

Member
I'm looking into buying an RV for commuting to an airport about 100nm away. I have so many questions about this ambition and I would appreciate some insight.

I'll apologize now for the long-windedness of this post.

1 - WHICH RV? - For all my flying career, nearly every flight has been in a rental airplane packed with people. I love flying alone, but I don't get to do it too often. In the case of this commuting, I might need to fly quite a bit alone. The "aircraft choice guide" on Van's site is great (and honest), and for the first time, I really only need one seat. I would also love to go as fast as possible without consuming a huge amount of fuel, and ideally in an aircraft that is cheap to buy and operate.

It seems like the RV-3 is the perfect choice for a commuter aircraft for me, but I'll happily take dissenting opinions.

2 - VALUE? - Assuming the RV-3 is the right choice, what's a reasonable price to pay for one? Does the value change dramatically with an 0-320 compared to an 0-290? How much should age of the airframe matter?

3 - LIGHTING - Many RV-3s that I've seen for sale are daytime VFR ships. My flying will be before and after a workday, so in the winter I will want landing and navigation lights. I've been through several threads on wingtip vs leading light mounting and HID vs halogen. I'm curious to know if anyone has experience retrofitting lights on an already-built RV-3. Is it relatively easy to run wires through the wing/tail? What's a good choice for equipment? There are some COTS units or a few DIY approaches.

4 - FLIGHT PROFICIENCY - I have my tailwheel endorsement, earned in a Citabria, and some time in Decathlon, Pitts, and Cub. I've never flown an RV-4 (or RV-anything), so the idea of transitioning to a single-seat RV-3 is both exciting and slightly daunting. What's a good way to do this? Should I try to get RV-4 time? Any suggestions how I could find an RV-4 owner that's willing to let me get a few minutes of stick time?

5 - PRE-BUY INSPECTION - Assuming I find an RV-3 I want, what's a good approach for a pre-buy? How can I be sure the CN-1 / CN-2 spar mods were done (correctly)? Should I bring an A&P with me, or is it possible to run adequate checks myself?

6 - INSTRUMENTATION - What's a good choice for supplementing the sometimes-sparse instrument panel in daytime VFR RV-3s? A friend of mine suggesting getting a Garmin G5. I'd likely end up using my phone/tablet with Avare for navigation. What else should I consider adding? I'm obviously torn between keeping the aircraft light and adding useful and safety-enhancing features.

7 - LAST MILE PROBLEM - This whole notion of commuting with an RV comes both from the romantic notion of using an airplane regularly, and the practicality of cutting a 2+ hour drive to almost 1 hour. Actually making it door to door in 1 - 1.3 hours depends very much on the transportation provisions on both ends of the flight. For people who commute with airplanes, how do you solve the last mile problem? Do you keep a beater (or spare) car parked at the destination airport? Do you use an electric bicycle, or just call a taxi/Uber? I don't need to go very far (~5 miles), but it's long enough that I need to figure out something reliable.

8 - PARKING - Is it ok to leave an RV outside for a few hours, or even permanently? I'm not positive that I'll have a hangar available on either side. If I have to leave it outside, can I use just a canopy cover, or should I get a whole-aircraft cover?


Thanks for the insight!
 
Everything you want to do is possible... A 3 wouldn't be bad... I would say look into 6's as well, as they can be a great value.

As for prebuys and other RV related info... Looks like you're would be close to Jesse Saint and Saint Aviation. Highly recommend him for all your RV maintenance and build needs!
 
If you want to do this because it?s fun, then go for it.
But if you really think you?ll save a lot of time....try it.
Rent a plane, park it at the airport. Go home. Start the clock.
First get a briefing. Don?t want to bust a TFR, or fly and find the airport is closed.
Drive to the airport, park. Untie the plane. Add a few minutes to remove and stow the rain tarp. Preflight the plane. Get the atis. Start the plane. Taxi to run up area. Run up. Go thru takeoff check list. Call the tower (and/or check traffic).Takeoff and fly. Land, taxi, tiedown. Install rain tarp. Add 5 minutes to get to your parked car, another 10 to drive to work.
What?s the total time? If you?re happy with the answer, move forward. But I think you?ll find all those little things add up.
 
My opinion is a 2-seat RV would be more practical for your purposes. As previously stated, an RV6 would be a good value and many to choose from.

I know a couple pilots who commute and they keep a beater in the tie down spot at the destination. Double check with airport management if this is allowed where you are. You want something reliable enough that you can drive it all the way back if need be (weather, mechanical issue etc.).

Bevan.
 
If you want to do this because it’s fun, then go for it.
But if you really think you’ll save a lot of time....try it.
Rent a plane, park it at the airport. Go home. Start the clock.
First get a briefing. Don’t want to bust a TFR, or fly and find the airport is closed.
Drive to the airport, park. Untie the plane. Add a few minutes to remove and stow the rain tarp. Preflight the plane. Get the atis. Start the plane. Taxi to run up area. Run up. Go thru takeoff check list. Call the tower (and/or check traffic).Takeoff and fly. Land, taxi, tiedown. Install rain tarp. Add 5 minutes to get to your parked car, another 10 to drive to work.
What’s the total time? If you’re happy with the answer, move forward. But I think you’ll find all those little things add up.

Great advice but sometimes 100 miles can take a long time by car if the highways don't line up or like in my neck of the woods, a gov't ferry is part of the land based travel scheme. 50 miles here is 4-5 hours by car/ferry :eek: but only 25 min by RV plus another hour for flight planning, pre-flight checks etc.
 
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I wholeheartedly endorse your proposal, it is exactly why I bought my RV, and then the contract promptly got cancelled (sorry, honey! :D). I would not forgo the -4 or the -6, your purchase market will be larger (and, thus, your resale market).

We do the same mission while visiting family on the other side of the DC Metro area. The mental aspects of flying vs. driving in traffic make the RV the preferred method, even though the door to door time is similar.
 
I have commuted by plane for a decade but my commute is weekly, not daily. As has been stated, you may not save a ton of time but you will likely be much less aggravated at the hassles of driving. The tight panel space on a 3 you mention I see as a safety issue. You will encounter weather and depending on your go/no go decisions may get you killed without good training, experience, and instrumentation that takes panel space. I would even say a good autopilot is mandatory to your mission. Yes, you will need a car at both airports.
 
It's not a bad idea at all, but as others have pointed out, there can be hidden limitations and issues. In addition to a few other recommendations I'd say you should study the weather at both ends of your commute for a month, at the times you plan to fly. Florida is known for lots of moisture in the air, and that can affect how often you have to drive anyway. Teh Texas Gulf Coast is similar (but not quite as wet), and Louise used to commute from our airpark home south of Houston to her office at College Station. We left a car there, so it was a five minuted drive to her office. This worked much of the time, but she didn't HAVE to be in the office most of the time, so if ther weather was bad, she worked from home. And if she had to drive, it was a LONG trip (through Houston).

Check your weather for awhile and keep track of the Go/NoGo ratio.
 
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Whoah!

There is absolutley no reason to do this in the first place!

I use my RV often to shorten my commute to my house in Maine from Massachusetts and that is a much longer drive than your proposed run. It turns a six hour drive into a one hour flight. To have it exclusively for that is absurd. In fact, owning an airplane is absurd in the first place. There is no better way to waste money than owning an airplane! However, maybe that is why we like it in the first place?

Buy an airplane if you want one. Don't try to justify it. A car is always cheaper and more reliable.

The plane is just cooler!

:cool: CJ
 
I have commuted by plane for a decade but my commute is weekly, not daily. As has been stated, you may not save a ton of time but you will likely be much less aggravated at the hassles of driving. The tight panel space on a 3 you mention I see as a safety issue. You will encounter weather and depending on your go/no go decisions may get you killed without good training, experience, and instrumentation that takes panel space. I would even say a good autopilot is mandatory to your mission. Yes, you will need a car at both airports.

+1.
I've only been doing the weekly commute for 3 years, not ten. Mine is 160nm air, 220 statute road.
As noted, I save very little time over driving but the mental aspect makes it worthwhile for me. YMMV.
On average, I drive 25% of the time because there is weather I will not fly in even with the IFR ticket.
 
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I have to agree with the Captain. Buy the airplane you want because you want it, not because you need it for reliable daily transportation. Airliners that are way more reliable than homebuilt airplanes, aren't that reliable for daily commuters if you have to be there on time.
 
Why not look at the 4s? Great value to be had and a extra seat that you can use for storage during your commute. Could come in handy.
 
Some thoughts:
- For awhile I did a twice a month commute from Fredericksburg, VA to north Atlanta, about a 600 mile drive. Flight time was 2hrs 45min. I gave myself 30 mins at the front end (airplane in the hangar next to the house) and an hour at the tail end (park at KPDK) for the trip to make sure I got to the office on time. On those days that I had to make the trip commercial, it was a full five+ hours from the time I left the house until I was in the office in Atlanta (three hours up front to make sure I got to DCA in the horrible I-95 traffic).
- I would not consider any commute plan that was not flown IFR any day other than perfectly weather. Way too easy to get suck into the ?got to get there? mentality and end up scud running.
- I also had a process to easily get a commercial flight if the weather went bad.
- Considering all this, I would put the ?it make sense to fly instead of drive? commute distance at no less than 250 miles. The option of ?I can fly and get where I need to be because it is fun? has no range minimum.

Carl
 
For this commute, if that's the main reason you want an RV and you don't have an ulterior motive like aerobatics, any of the RVs will do. It doesn't matter. As Bob suggested, the other parts of the commute will dominate the trip time.

But why limit your search to an RV? Almost any airplane will do for this.

As you know, there are different wing configurations with an RV-3. That will affect the price. The RV-3 construction process leaves a lot to the builder and you'll need a very careful inspection, preferably by someone who knows something about RVs, and desirably, RV-3s.

Dave
RV-3B, now skinning the fuselage
 
RV Commuting

I’m an airline pilot and I commuted from the Florida Panhandle to Memphis in our RV-4 for five years.

A -3 would do the job, but the -4 has a nice trunk (rear cockpit) to strap a big bag into, and you still have the baggage compartment for miscellaneous gear—plus you can take the occasional friend flying! A -6 would do just as well. In commuting mode, I’d pull the rear seat stick and upholstery and used a small plywood false floor with rubber padding underneath my big roll-away that I strapped in with the harness.

After three years of hand-flying IFR, I added a Trutrack autopilot. If I had to do it over, I would have added that much sooner! I had a couple of canned flight plans, and always filed IFR even when the weather was cancelled ;). This simplified planning and execution. I always had a back-up plan. To reduce the “get thereitis” I always allowed sufficient time on a front end commute to be able to land enroute, rent a car and still make it to work.

The RV was a full hour faster door to door than total commute time by jumpseat, since I had to drive almost two hours to catch a direct flight.

Paul is spot on, the weather will be the biggest factor (an RV isn’t a Boeing when it comes to weather flying); so you might want to set your personal weather mins, and then start looking at how often you’ll be able to fly the profile...there were plenty of times the weather dictated Plan B...but, the bottom line is you’ll enjoy flying RV’s whether you're commuting or just boring holes in the sky!

Good luck,

Vac
 
For this commute, if that's the main reason you want an RV and you don't have an ulterior motive like aerobatics, any of the RVs will do. It doesn't matter. As Bob suggested, the other parts of the commute will dominate the trip time.

But why limit your search to an RV? Almost any airplane will do for this.

As you know, there are different wing configurations with an RV-3. That will affect the price. The RV-3 construction process leaves a lot to the builder and you'll need a very careful inspection, preferably by someone who knows something about RVs, and desirably, RV-3s.

Dave
RV-3B, now skinning the fuselage

True! If you are set on single seat but want a little more room and still be "sporty and aerobatic", look at the SPA Panther. Easy construction, almost as fast and great looking plane!
 
C172 commute experience

In 1984-86 I commuted daily in a Cessna 172. Car at each end, and with a post-landing commute to finish the drive to the office, the total door to door time, flying or driving, was almost the same, 2 hours one way. Flying over the traffic jams was great, but there is obvious overhead in the pre-flights, fueling, tiedowns, etc.

If I were to recommend daily air commute I'd recommend that the workplace is only a bicycle ride from the airplane's daily parking spot, and that there is a reasonable backup driving/no flying commute method.

I'd echo the opinion that you want a 2 seater. I fly a -6A, and it's great. 90+% of my flying is solo, but it's still great to be able to share a ride or throw a backpack on that seat.

Carl
..
 
I can be great

As Paul mentioned, I commuted about 100 miles for about five years and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Even though I used the planes for other things, it would have been absolutely the right thing to do if I never used it for anything else. My drive commute was exactly across Houston and the very best I ever did took two hours....going home was typically about four hours. My typical flights to and from were 65 minutes door-to-door. In a pinch, I did it under 55 minutes. The plane(s) lived in our hangar in an airpark on the home end and on the ramp with good canopy covers on the work end. I didn't note any ill-effects of that life.

During the later years, I had the luxury of picking an RV-3B, -6, or -8 for the commute. I almost always chose the -3B unless Paul claimed it first. It's a perfect commuter IF you don't need to lug a bunch of stuff around. The -6 was always my second choice. Assuming you can find the appropriate -3 at the price you want, I can't imagine why you would buy a -4 or -6 for that mission. That said, there are many more -4s and -6s to chose from.

I had a older car AND a one-bedroom condo on the work end. It would have been much more stressful without both. At the very least, I would rent a room in a colleague's house for days when you effectively get stuck. Days like that were inevitably stressful and adding the task of finding a motel room can put one over the top! At least, that was my experience.

I agree with some posters (somewhat) that RV commuting rarely makes objective sense but it absolutely did make sense in my case. I had some ideal circumstances...airpark home, friendly airport with free tie-downs and free car parking just two miles from the office, a horrific commute by car, an "extra" old car, inexpensive housing costs at the work end, and an office window that allowed me to watch the weather each day both at the airport and in the direction of home. You will have to judge whether it makes sense for you and your circumstances.
 
I am floored by the responses, so thank you all for sharing your thoughts. There were several common themes that I'll address:

WHY - BobTurner and others were asking about intention. The simple answer is that I'll have to make the commute anyways, and if I can have a blast (hopefully not literally) along the way, why not? There's a slight chance I'll save a few minutes, but realistically it will take as long or longer. I used to live west of LA and we would be invited over to friends who lived deep in the Inland Empire (east of LA). Driving could take up to 3 hours, but flying was a casual and relaxing 1.2 hours (including pre-flight) and the sea of brake-lights on the highways were morbidly-entertaining. If I had to choose between driving and flying, where flying was more expensive, took the same amount of time, and had more uncertainty - I'd always choose flying.

WEATHER - This is a big factor and the advice to do a historical Go/No-Go is excellent. I've been doing this casually for the last two months and I basically have a 75% Go rate. This changes throughout the year, but things like morning fog, afternoon thunderstorms, low persistent ceilings, and high-winds are all reasons that I would happily scrub a flight. It's still worth it for me to go through the effort of buying and maintaining an airplane even I could only go 50% of the time.

JUSTIFICATION - Captain John made some great points on the justification for this whole effort. He's completely right about the absurdity, and let's be honest about my motivations - I'm doing this because I want to own an airplane. My entire life can be summarized as "a series of forced justifications for why an airplane is relevant in this situation". I have virtually never "needed" to fly, but am always delighted that I did. Carl made a great point about the practical versus enjoyability distance threshold.

AIRCRAFT CHOICE - I'll agree that the -4 is a better choice overall. It's also quite a bit more expensive, and I'm trying to determine if the extra convenience of the rear seat is worth about double the purchase price. In all that I've read about the -3, the reviews of the flying qualities and performance are very positive. I adore aerobatics and am far too excited about the possibility of loops, rolls, and spins when I'm not actively getting somewhere. I'll look at the -4 and -6 market, per the suggestions.

CONTINGENCIES - If the weather looks unfavorable, I'm quite willing to drive. If I make the trip out there and the return flight looks sketchy, I'll rent a car for the drive back. If I need to stay there, there's already a place for me. I'm ok only using the airplane when it makes sense with regards to safety, then drive in all other circumstances. Louise's suggestions are great here, and my situation appears to support several contingencies.

TIMING - I've been running different scenarios for timing to see how long it will realistically take me. Here's a best-case:
Drive to Airport: 10 min
Pre-Flight: 15 min
Flight: 50 min
Parking: 15 min
Drive to Office: 10 min
Total: 1:40

The driving time ranges from 2 hours to 2:30. The flight will realistically take just as long and involve three modes of transportation. I'm ok with that.


Thanks again for the rapid and well-thought-out responses. I'm happy to hear more if available and I'll provide updates on what happens.
 
Takes a car at either end, so have a plan for returning a car after both and the plane wind up in the same side. A plane ride with shared expenses, for instance. Same for any mechanical issues.
 
I’m not a “commuter” but I’ve been regularly flying between Richmond VA and Allentown PA for many years. The advice below is good advice. My key learnings:

1. You’ll want a car at the destination. Renting a car when needed is way too much hassle. Sitting around is hard on cars (“lot rot”), primarily on paint/tires. Buy cheap tires, they will wear on the sides before they wear the treads. I’ve had very few battery problems. A beater is fine, but it has to be reliable because....

2. That car is a HUGE safety advantage. Huge. Much easier to make the right go/no go decision if you have alternative transportation readily available.

3. My trip is 1.6 hours flying versus 5-7 (or more!) driving. Your time savings is not nearly as large, especially considering the flight & airplane prep on both ends. But fun is also important. Give this some thought.

4. Depending on where you live, (a) an instrument rating (and equipped aircraft) may be a HUGE advantage in terms of ease of flying and dispatch rate, even if you don’t fly hard IFR (I don’t, at least not intentionally) and (b) there may be large parts of the year where weather keeps you grounded, even with an instrument rating.

5. Eventually, after you take off one fine day, the weather will become much worse than forecast. Train for this, expect it, and have a backup plan. I’ve got big airports and ILS’s at both ends of my trip, and have had to use them. I also once had to divert to a place I had never been, shoot an approach to near minimums, and spend 2 nights at a hotel, even on my fairly short trip!

6. Aircraft ownership is much better than — but FAR more time-consuming than — renting. Paperwork, inspections, etc.

7. Maintenance availability at both airports is a major plus.

8. You don’t want a partner in an aircraft used for commuting. Eventually you’ll have to strand it on a weekend, etc. This can put undue pressure on the go/no go decision.

9. Any RV can make a great commuter. The 9 is the absolutely perfect IFR commuter aircraft, in my biased opinion. :)

10. Make friends with the airport manager at both airports.

Good luck!

I know a couple pilots who commute and they keep a beater in the tie down spot at the destination. Double check with airport management if this is allowed where you are. You want something reliable enough that you can drive it all the way back if need be (weather, mechanical issue etc.).
 
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I thought buying a large boat was spendy....until I built a plane. But who cares what it costs, its fun. like trying to convince the wife that a Ducati would save on gas commuting to work....until I calculated the tire wear cost at 4.00 a day :rolleyes: so all those hidden costs will add up, hangar, insurance, maintenance, TBO cost to operate per Hr? but life is short.....so.....
 
It works

I commuted across Phoenix in a 7. The distance was 55 miles. I am fortunate to live in a hangar home that made it easy. I kept a car at the other end and drove the last 8 miles in to work. The flight was 15 minutes the drive 10. From pushing the plane out to walking in the door was 40 minutes. The best drive time ever was Sunday mornings at 0530, 55 minutes. In work traffic, I had drives of 2 hours. Then you get to work or home in a bad mood.

I say give a try for a while. You can always sell the plane later. Don't limit yourself to a using it for just work. You'll find day trips just got to cooler places. Also, suggest a 2 place to share the love.
 
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