First Time Post and Buyer

Hello new friends.

I am about to complete my private pilot certificate. I?m also about to graduate veterinary school and am heavily considering taking a job around 600 miles from home. They want me to work part of the week, and I?m considering going back home and working/being with family the remainder of the week. I wouldn?t do this every week, just kind of depends on the weather.

Because of this, I?m heavily considering buying a plane. My mission would be 600 mile cross countries by myself. Want something quick, fuel efficient, and a good plane for IFR conditions (plan to get instrument certificate soon after private). Right now considering 6, 7, or 9?s. Prefer the side by side seating, prefer a tricycle gear but I?m willing to get tail wheel endorsement for the right situation.
So my main question, how difficult would it be to overhaul the panel on some of these older rv-6?s or cheaper built rv-9?s? Adding auto-pilot? I?m pretty handy for the most part, decent on electronics, but I?m pretty good at problem solving and finding a way to get something done.

Any input on any of this is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

welcome

Congrats. You asked for advice so..

Finish ppl, get a solid used rv that is well built, fly and enjoy it often and take your time on upgrades and ifr and do it right, while you build lots of hours and hone your skills and learn the plane. Enjoy

Better than driving - usually

Congrats on graduating from veterinary school!!

If you're generally handy and decent with electronics, I don't think the panel/autopilot upgrade process will give you any major difficulties. I'm neither handy nor decent with electronics (not even close), so I've sought out professional help when needed, but have still managed a few smaller projects myself. SteinAir videos have been crucial!!

Not the question you asked, but: 600 miles is a long way, and the instrument rating and new avionics will only solve so many problems. What two locations will you be flying between? Weather and terrain (related of course) will make a big difference in how often you can reliably travel 600 miles by RV.

I think most new pilots, with the help of aircraft manufacturers, an enthusiastic AOPA, etc., overestimate the real-world traveling abilitites of small piston-engined aircraft. I know I did.

lam0082 said:

Hello new friends.

I am about to complete my private pilot certificate. I?m also about to graduate veterinary school and am heavily considering taking a job around 600 miles from home. They want me to work part of the week, and I?m considering going back home and working/being with family the remainder of the week. I wouldn?t do this every week, just kind of depends on the weather.

Because of this, I?m heavily considering buying a plane. My mission would be 600 mile cross countries by myself. Want something quick, fuel efficient, and a good plane for IFR conditions (plan to get instrument certificate soon after private). Right now considering 6, 7, or 9?s. Prefer the side by side seating, prefer a tricycle gear but I?m willing to get tail wheel endorsement for the right situation.
So my main question, how difficult would it be to overhaul the panel on some of these older rv-6?s or cheaper built rv-9?s? Adding auto-pilot? I?m pretty handy for the most part, decent on electronics, but I?m pretty good at problem solving and finding a way to get something done.

Any input on any of this is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Click to expand...

Welcome to VAF

Logan, welcome aboard the good ship VAF

Dugaru,

Mainly traveling in SE United States out of Florida up the coast or slightly inland. Not too bad of airspace outside of getting around Atlanta.

Commitment, Work, Time, Kids, Wife, Distance, Frequency, Weather, Desire.

Out West...maybe.
Kentucky? Florida? Kentucky....
I don?t see this idea turning out well.

Soloed Cessna 150 in 1970
Retired 2019 Boeing 747-400, LCF

R

Discus,

Yes sometimes it seems kind of an excessive thought. Not married at the moment, at most this would be a 1-1.5 year engagement. The realistic thought is refreshing though, thank you for the input.

My 2 cents. Use the RV for fun. Build hours. Then decide if commuting is a good idea. You will probably realize that it?s not.

Panel upgrade

Certain panel upgrade for IFR are necessary. Glass EFIS is nice and compact but not necessarily easier. I got my IFR with a six pack in an Arrow. In my opinion the gauges are easier and quicker to read. I did upgrade my 6A with an EFIS early on, which also incorporates the engine monitor, and having hand flown in simulated and IMC and gauges are easier. When I got my plane it didn't have a VOR nor engine monitor. A friend bought a really nice 6 with gauges with an Aera map. The only thing he needs is an AP, WAAS GPS, and engine monitor like a D120. Although I have my 10" EFIS on split display I still use my iPad as my main map. Both my EFIS and iPad display traffic and weather. Here are the items you would want assuming you have a CDI/HSI:

- Obviously need a WAAS GPS
- If the plane doesn't have ADS-B out already the most cost effective is the Echo-UAT because that provides you both In and Out. If you already have Out then a Stratux (not Stratus) for less than $200 already assembled will provide you with ADS-B In and will WiFi to your iPad. I have this in my plane and works great after 2 years.
- iPad with Foreflt or one of the many other nav aids out there. You can plan and lookup weather at home. I have my iPad mounted with a removable mount to the panel and use it to display my approach plates
- Auto Pilot with altitude coupled to your CDI/HSI. I feel this is a must have. It's so easy to have a bad day and get disoriented
- Backup system like a G5 or similar
- Engine monitor like a D120. EGT/CHT. The unit will warn you audibly of other parameters out of range like voltage, oil pressure, amps, etc. An amp warning will immediately let you know you lost you alternator and gives you time to shed electrical and land. You don't want to look down seeing a parameter out of range and wonder how long it's been like that. Most important is the fuel flow. You never have to estimate how much fuel you have. I top off at 38 gal. My fuel computer is set to give me 36 gal at top off, my personal preference. I rather think if have less than think I have more. Also allows for some error. I start with my left tank and burn down to 30gal, switch to rt tank and burn down to 20 gal and switch to left and burn down to 10 gal (switching tanks every 5 gal is unnecessary). When I get down to 10 gal I know I have at least 2 gal in the left and and at least 8 gal in the rt tank. If I happen to forget to switch tanks and for example switch at 29 gal then I'll burn down to 19 gal before switching to the left tank and I'm back on track. This works well if you have a two or more people flying the plane. If everyone does the same fuel management than everyone know how much fuel is in each tank and when to switch tanks

I may have missed something but my main purpose in posting this is you can have a really good panel without it being glass.

However there will be times when you won't be able to fly to work nor fly from work back home due to weather. This forum has a wealth of info from very knowledgeable people. I wish you the best

RickWoodall said:

Congrats. You asked for advice so..

Finish ppl, get a solid used rv that is well built, fly and enjoy it often and take your time on upgrades and ifr and do it right, while you build lots of hours and hone your skills and learn the plane. Enjoy

Click to expand...

+1
It?s really best to have some ifr experience before deciding on ifr upgrades; but you need some equipment to get that experience. Sort of a catch 22. Take your time. As to your proposed 600 nm x/c: Just realize that there will be times when you shouldn?t leave the ground, ifr rated or not. Have alternate plans available, even driving if that works. BTW, look up the part 91 ifr rules for gas: fly to destination, fly to alternate, fly another 45 minutes. What?s the history of wx at your destinations? How far will you have to go to find an airport that?s forecast for a ceiling of 800? or better, when your destination wx is less than a 2000? ceiling? If you fly at 75% cruise power you may find that an intermediate fuel stop is needed. That?s not necessarily a bad thing, just that it may take more time than you think.

If your stated mission is what you need as an “enabler” to get into aircraft ownership then go for it just know that you will be late for work quite often. Using an RV to reliably cover 600nm on a work schedule is something to avoid. If you have enough flexibility to fly yourself when the conditions are appropriate and fly commercial the rest of the time then worst cast it will give you a bunch more hours vs just being a weekend warrior.

By the time you factor in panned and unplanned maintenance, forecast weather, surprise weather, unplanned and poorly timed illness, etc you will end up missing work or meetings more often than you think if you are making safe choices.

Buy a plane, have fun with it, be safe and commute with it when you can.

Welcome

Free advice is usually worth what you pay for it! Here?s mine. Spend most of your money on avgas, nothing beats experience, jumping straight into an RV is ok I believe, however it?s not to be taken lightly, these are wonderful aircraft but they have the capability of getting ahead of you if you aren?t ready. I?ve flown mine all over the western US and would definitely encourage commuting, but be ready to have unplanned stays etc. Time in the seat trumps any fancy panel, gadgets are awesome but don?t expect them to make up for mistakes.

Great airplanes...

I bought a flying RV7a 4 years ago. If there is another airplane out there that fits my mission any better, I can't find it. The speed, efficiency, STOL ability, and fun factor combine to make it the coolest little airplane I have ever flown. I upgraded the panel with TSO certified NAV gear and a good autopilot the following year. Money well spent. Jessie Saint, in Florida helped me with everything. Nice guy. Very RV knowledgable. Fair prices. I have used the plane for business and pleasure. For such a long commute, the extra fuel in the 7 would be a plus over a 6. I'll echo what some have already said here. IFR ticket and proficiency is a must. We also have to listen when aviation tells us no. Have minimums and stick to them. Getthereitis has killed more than a few. If you really need to be there, have a backup plan.

I would see if there is an aero club in your area. This way you can fly different types of aircraft, build hours, and get your IFR ticket (which I feel is very important). During this time meet RV people, learn about the real numbers while you are flying your mission in other planes, and the RV panel options.

I'll echo what Discus said. I think RVs are great but eased into. Buying an RV that needs work is an added stress to everything you said you will already be going through.

Sucked the fun out of flying

I spent a year and a half commuting 250 miles on weekends. At first it was fun, but I soon realized it was a stressful challenge.

The amount of maintenance for flying so much was more than I anticipated. Having to fly regularly means alway having the plane perfect, without squawks. This became a huge chore and time suck.

It also sucked the joy out of flying. In an just now (one year later) starting to enjoy flying again.

Like others, you wanted advice. I'll give you my 38 years and almost 7000 hours worth. I feel you're overestimating the ability to reliably get to and from work. It is not like and automobile in the sky. Weather, time, health, mechanical break down (you'll have plenty) all eat away at that equation. On top of that, you will be tempted to fly beyond your ability ( I'm assuming here since you said you're just now getting your license) or comfort with the pressures of getting to work. That is a recipe for headlines in the morning paper. Find a plane that is well built. Take your time looking. Learn aircraft systems, find a good local instructor with whom you can build a relationship and refine your skills. At some point in the future, you will have more experience on which to further define your mission.
Best of luck and welcome to the fantastic world of aviation and the Vans RV!

Respectfully,
David

lam0082 said:

Hello new friends.

I am about to complete my private pilot certificate. I?m also about to graduate veterinary school and am heavily considering taking a job around 600 miles from home. They want me to work part of the week, and I?m considering going back home and working/being with family the remainder of the week. I wouldn?t do this every week, just kind of depends on the weather.

Because of this, I?m heavily considering buying a plane. My mission would be 600 mile cross countries by myself. Want something quick, fuel efficient, and a good plane for IFR conditions (plan to get instrument certificate soon after private). Right now considering 6, 7, or 9?s. Prefer the side by side seating, prefer a tricycle gear but I?m willing to get tail wheel endorsement for the right situation.
So my main question, how difficult would it be to overhaul the panel on some of these older rv-6?s or cheaper built rv-9?s? Adding auto-pilot? I?m pretty handy for the most part, decent on electronics, but I?m pretty good at problem solving and finding a way to get something done.

Any input on any of this is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Click to expand...

I have a lot of respect for anyone that can stick their full arm up the rear end of a large mammal. I suspect you're more capable and intelligent that most, so I would simply advise you to take the advice those have already shared an go slow and don't depend on the RV for transport...always have an out.

When I was young and eager like you I found myself in a couple aviation situations early in my career as a result of my hubris. I was lucky that fate hadn't hunt me.

All that said, sometimes you can ride your bike without a helmet on. You just need to gain the experience to know when its ok. Airplanes are not rocket surgery, especially if you have guidance. The fact that you came here to seek it says a lot.

Is it feasible to buy an older RV and upgrade to a glass panel? Well everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. Kind of the same with upgrading panels in older planes. You can most certainly do it, but it won't likely be quick or simple.

That's not to say it wouldn't be worth doing. But I would only recommend doing it if learning to do that kind of project and/or doing that kind of project was a goal on its own. If teaching yourself how to do a panel upgrade and tinkering with all the associated systems is something you would otherwise want to do, then it go for it.

Lots of people go the route of I'll buy a cheaper fixer-upper airplane and do all the needed upgrades on it for their first plane. Very few go that route for their second plane or any subsequent plane. They end up realizing its a better deal to spend more on a plane that doesn't need any upgrades.

All good advice.

I'm assuming an RV or similar first aircraft would have an airspeed of about 150. Your 600nm commute is roughly a 4 hour prospect. I know you have compared that to the 10 hour drive and thought- gosh it'd be great to fly.
Flying is great! Especially with an RV Grin!!!

Congrats on achieving your DVM! Finish your PPL. Gain experience and knowledge and have fun!

As previously mentioned, the prospect of planning the weather and other logistics makes the commute a daunting task. Not impossible. I'm building a 6 for a xc instrument time machine- with the acceptance of the limitations that I'll have time to spare if I go by air.

One of the best parts of flying, I think you'll find, is the fact you have to leave your problems and challenges on the ground. I.E. That really challenging owner with the horse with navicular, you won't worry about as you're focused on flying. After you land and airplane is put away, then you'll be refreshed from flying and can choose what to address next.

Good luck and welcome!

Distance matters

Good point. And I think that 600 miles is a materially more difficult distance to cover reliably by small aircraft than 250 miles. Almost like another category of difficult.

As an experiment, the OP could take a week and eyeball the weather existing along his route each day. Across 600 miles, I predict there will very often be part of the route that would pose significant weather challenges to an instrument-capable RV.

Certainly that would be true in a 600 NM radius from New Kent International Aerodrome (W96). It might vary based on region of the country; I know basically zilch about flying out west.

lndwarrior said:

I spent a year and a half commuting 250 miles on weekends. At first it was fun, but I soon realized it was a stressful challenge.

Click to expand...

IFR conditions can be extremely varied. You'll still need to avoid thunderstorms and known icing conditions in any RV. If you feel you'll need to fly in light ice then an RV isn't going to be for you.

As terms of the panel, there are companies out there that can cut a panel and make you a harness. You or someone you hire would only have to run the power wires. I personally love my panel setup, and find flying in IMC with it almost cheating. I came from hand-flying an analog 172 set up so it's night and day for me.