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Yes, you can open and close a slider in flight

pa38112

Well Known Member
This weekend my son was experimenting with his 6A trying to figure out why people claim you can not open and close the slider in-flight. What he discovered is that you can. He slowed up to 70mph indicated and opened the canopy without any issue. He said it closed fine until he got to about 2", then it would not go. What he discovered was that the pins that hold the rear of the slider in were flexed out, and would not align with the blocks that hold them. I am not sure what technique he developed to correct that, but now he has flown several times opening and close his slider in-flight. I will find out what his maximum speed has been...
 
Soon to be posted...

?WTB: One(1) slider canopy for an RV-6A?

Just kidding. I have no dog in this fight. That?s just the first thing that came to my mind.

:D
 
have no idea why you would want to test this. :confused:


I'm a parachute rigger and I've often had RV pilots (whom I've suggested wear a parachute for formation flight) say...."you can't get the canopy open in flight anyway". I never bought into that theory and now this guy has proven that you can.

I think it's great that the OP's son, and others like him, are willing to take a little risk to challenge the status quo. It makes for a better world.
 
When I tested my RV-7 and RV-8 I opened the canopy in flight at around 80-100 KIAS a few inches before I did the higher risk maneuvers testing the planes. During actual flight testing I had cutouts on the canopy rails where the rollers would clear the rails when the canopy is slid back a bit and pushed upwards. The main reason was to make sure and be prepared to leave the plane when wearing a parachute - just in case.
Of course there is an increased risk doing this just for testing because the rear of the canopy is only held to the rail with the sliding block when opened. I made sure I had a solid grip on the canopy when doing this.
 
One day I experienced severe turbulence which resulted in an oxygen bottle I though was securely stowed, break loose & partially go thru the canopy. The airflow took the broke out plexi pieces and dinted the vertical stab approx. 6" up from the base.
My point being, if the whole canopy were ever to be released in flight, where would it go? My unexpected experiment above suggests it would most likely take the whole vertical stab & rudder with it.
So- from my above experience, opening the canopy voluntarily in flight is not anything I would do...
 
One day I experienced severe turbulence which resulted in an oxygen bottle I though was securely stowed, break loose & partially go thru the canopy. The airflow took the broke out plexi pieces and dinted the vertical stab approx. 6" up from the base.
My point being, if the whole canopy were ever to be released in flight, where would it go? My unexpected experiment above suggests it would most likely take the whole vertical stab & rudder with it.
So- from my above experience, opening the canopy voluntarily in flight is not anything I would do...

I agree with you Ralph

The sliding canopy as designed, is meant to be functional and light weight.
With the way it can shake around during a ground run-up I would not be purposefully opening one in flight unless i was wearing a chute and was planning to use it.
 
I agree with you Ralph
The sliding canopy as designed, is meant to be functional and light weight.
With the way it can shake around during a ground run-up I would not be purposefully opening one in flight unless i was wearing a chute and was planning to use it.

Or maybe just prior to "ditching".
 
Recipe for a really bad day

While I love the experimental spirit...unless the canopy is specifically designed to be opened in flight, I strongly recommend not doing so. The prop-wash and windscreen burble might introduce pressures/forces which could relieve the airplane of the canopy entirely...and some or all of the vertical stab.

Emergency egress is the exception of course.
 
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Speaking of canopies coming off. At the 2016 STOL Roundup in Llano, TX I saw an RV-8 canopy laying in the grass and then I saw the airplane taxi by without the canopy. I felt sorry for the fellow thinking he was taxiing to a maintenance hangar to lick his wounds. To my amazement he turned and took off as part of the flour bombing competition. He had purposely removed the canopy in order to compete. Crazy Texan. He was solo and had a bombing technique of pulling vertical and lobbing the flour sack over his shoulder backwards. The son of a gun came in like second, and better than a lot of slow open air Cub types. It was the highlight of the event for me.

Jim
 
Hmmmm.....so this can be done!? I wonder what Vans has to say about it. Been wanting to eject a skydiver from the plane like they did with the gliders (ref. YouTube) for some time.


Speaking of canopies coming off. At the 2016 STOL Roundup in Llano, TX I saw an RV-8 canopy laying in the grass and then I saw the airplane taxi by without the canopy. I felt sorry for the fellow thinking he was taxiing to a maintenance hangar to lick his wounds. To my amazement he turned and took off as part of the flour bombing competition. He had purposely removed the canopy in order to compete. Crazy Texan. He was solo and had a bombing technique of pulling vertical and lobbing the flour sack over his shoulder backwards. The son of a gun came in like second, and better than a lot of slow open air Cub types. It was the highlight of the event for me.

Jim
 
Hmmmm.....so this can be done!? I wonder what Vans has to say about it. Been wanting to eject a skydiver from the plane like they did with the gliders (ref. YouTube) for some time.

Might want to check your ops limits. I think mine says something about no glider towing, banner towing, or skydiving.
 
Hmmmm.....so this can be done!? I wonder what Vans has to say about it. Been wanting to eject a skydiver from the plane like they did with the gliders (ref. YouTube) for some time.

Check your operating limitations before doing this. Unless they have been amended, intentional parachute jumping is prohibited from Amateur-Built aircraft.

So, Jeff types faster than I do.
 
Might want to check your ops limits. I think mine says something about no glider towing, banner towing, or skydiving.

Wasn't there a video on here recently of someone doing just this? Skydiver out of a 7 (may have been a 6) with the canopy removed. Can't find the link
 
Wasn't there a video on here recently of someone doing just this? Skydiver out of a 7 (may have been a 6) with the canopy removed. Can't find the link

Just because it's been done doesn't mean it was legal. It's also possible that they had their op lims amended to allow parachute jumping.
 
Mel- Sorry- was not my intent to infer it was legal. Actually, from watching the video I think the guys were pushing it even if legal.
 
Wasn't there a video on here recently of someone doing just this? Skydiver out of a 7 (may have been a 6) with the canopy removed. Can't find the link

I'm not sure why it was removed (legality of the jump?) but it was removed VERY shortly after it was posted that day.
 
Hmmmm.....so this can be done!? I wonder what Vans has to say about it. Been wanting to eject a skydiver from the plane like they did with the gliders (ref. YouTube) for some time.

Hey Wingnut I'm not suggesting you do this but if you do, two things to _really watch out for_...make absolutely sure he doesn't hit the vertical on the way out, and he needs to guard heavily against a premature opening.:eek: Oh also, make sure you have _your_ parachute on! It is in-date right..:D
 
Just because it's been done doesn't mean it was legal. It's also possible that they had their op lims amended to allow parachute jumping.

Or they were outside the US, and not operating under FAA regs.
 
I'm not sure why it was removed (legality of the jump?) but it was removed VERY shortly after it was posted that day.
Well, there's also the aerobatics in the video that were done without chutes. And since it's marked "gifting rides at burning man" that suggests it was done in the US.
 
Well, there's also the aerobatics in the video that were done without chutes. And since it's marked "gifting rides at burning man" that suggests it was done in the US.

First rule - "Don't do nothin' stupid."
Second rule - "Please don't put it on the internet."
 
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The FAA has and will violate airmen after reviewing incriminating videos posted online.
Be careful what you post.
BIG Brother IS watching!
 
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RV-3 flown with canopy open

From the flight log of my RV-3, dated 7/4/1980 at 2.5 hours TT:

"Flew with canopy open at 105 mph, IAS. No control problem whatsoever. Canopy will self close when released."

I have not tried the same, and don't intend to.
 
My son did some ground testing before attempting this. His observation is that there is no more air/buffeting on the open canopy in-flight at 80mph than there is when doing a full power run-up on the ground.
The front of the canopy angles down and is lower than the airstream coming off the wind screen. The back is open and allows the air to flow out.
He did this for two reasons: 1.) To see if he can participate in a pumpkin Drop. 2.) To see if one day he could drop his brother.
He has indicated that he is not comfortable dropping his brother this way. He would remove the canopy for that. He believes a person exiting the cockpit would cause un-safe air disturbance, and more worrisome is that the person could lean on or pull on the canopy.
 
So I guess this opens up a question: how does one go about getting an operation added to your operating limits to make this legal?

Marshall, I was thinking a negative G scenario like that glider video. And I absolutely would have a chute as well - though it does need a repack ;) Looks like these planes fly fine with no canopy. Still want to see more data until I'm convinced. Don't think I trust flying with the canopy part way open though as I'm not going to rely on the stock hardware to hold it on.

Hey Wingnut I'm not suggesting you do this but if you do, two things to _really watch out for_...make absolutely sure he doesn't hit the vertical on the way out, and he needs to guard heavily against a premature opening.:eek: Oh also, make sure you have _your_ parachute on! It is in-date right..:D
 
You would have to petition your FSDO for that amendment. I've seen it happen but it is rare. I once sold a 2-seat ultralight-type to a skydiver and he got it amended.
One of the requirements was to demonstrate how the "jump" would take place.
I have my doubts that an FAA inspector would approve this for an RV.

Since it is an "ORDER" a local FSDO inspector would never be able to approve this. FSDO Inspectors or DAR's are allowed to "add" to the limitations, such as adding Phase I hours or limitations if deemed necessary, but can never "relax" the limitations. The only way to relax them is have it go through FAA Headquarters and be granted an exception.

Vic
 
>how does one go about getting an operation added to your operating limits to make this legal?


So, if anybody wants to follow this regulatory path to try to get FAA approval, I'd be willing to be the "expert" representative from the skydiving/parachute world to answer questions and provide guidance and help keep things safe. Seems like a worthwhile cause.
 
phase 1

Put the airplane back in phase 1 and test it. Dont leave anything up to the FAA "to do" or it wont get done!

Thanks for sharing video, but I dont see it being opened during flight, just looks like the canopy was removed.

I had a Grumman Yankee and it was ok to open canopy in flight, it just had a speed limitation of 110mph if I recall correctly.
 
Put the airplane back in phase 1 and test it. Dont leave anything up to the FAA "to do" or it wont get done!

Thanks for sharing video, but I dont see it being opened during flight, just looks like the canopy was removed.

I had a Grumman Yankee and it was ok to open canopy in flight, it just had a speed limitation of 110mph if I recall correctly.

I think the "to do" that was being discussed was getting the limitation of no parachute jumping allowed removed from the standard issue operating limitations. There is nothing you can do with Phase 1 flight testing that will do this.

I agree that if all you want to do is fly with a sliding canopy removed or open, doing so in Phase 1 and documenting it should be sufficient.
That is essentially what Grumman did. They flight tested with the canopy open and then documented it, and it was incorporated into their Type Certification.
That in it self should not make people assume that all would be fine with a sliding canopy open on an RV-7, 9, or 8. They are very different airplanes with very different canopy designs.
 
I'd venture a guess that no one who has actually gone through the challenge of building a canopy would have any interest in this testing, separate from the obvious safety considerations. Many builders consider the canopy the most challenging part of a build.
 
https://youtu.be/RAvFc9rlXPI

If this does not work search MX2 ejection on you tube.
Various techniques demonstrated.

It looks tricky and risky enough even for pros
Nice to know that slowing to near stall allows egress in an RV with slider but I doubt a very good idea to intentionally drop jumpers with the canopy open but still on. Both pilot and jumper are laying it all on the line to each do their part right.

You would not want the shoulder harness flailing your canopy or top skin. So most likely the jumper would not have a harness on at all, or only a lap belt. Legal barriers overcome it would need very careful planning snd execution.

YMMV
 
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What ever you do don't accidentally eject your canopy, unless you plan on bailing out... it could take off the vertical.
 
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