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Numatix vs traditional pneumatic squeezer

Jskyking

Well Known Member
Trying to compare the advantages/ disadvantages of a Numatix squeezer vs. Traditional.
Certainly, I get the price differential, but is the ease of use, in terms of weight and maneuverability worth the extra cost. Also, is the foot control the only means of actuating the squeezer.
I?d really appreciate thoughts from builders that have experience in using both.
Thx
 
Don?t have the numatix squeezer but it seems to be a lighter device, possibly better control and consistent power vs a pneumatic squeezer.
Downside may be (and I stress may as I have no evidence) that the setup is slightly more complicated (more components and cables), single vendor support, and users may experience a superiority complex vs other builders. :D

Honestly if I had the cash and was aware of this when I started, I may have chosen differently.
 
I have both.

The Numatx is the single best tool I have bought for ages.

The head is light, the foot control takes moments to master, the ability to feather the pressure before squeezing is great and set up a cinch.

2 pressures - 1 for 3/32", one for 1/8"

I would not hesitate to recommend it and I have built 3 RV's and have 3 in front of me to build !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFAgD5yabk
 
best tool in my workshop. Very light and easy to use. Then you have to build or have a c-frame built. Numatx should provide plans. If not, then I have the pdf in my email.
 
the one thing that is very helpful is the swivel attachment that connects directly to the squeezer. I did not have originally and it limited access to some places. I would put it in upon assembly. It maybe standard part now. I don't know.

Furthermore, I bet resale value is pretty good on a numatx, especially if you sold the c-frame with is. But this is a guess.
 
Like others have commented above it's worth every penny. I have a traditional one and I think I've used it maybe twice since I acquired the Numatx.

The best feature besides being very light is the ability to feather the pressure to seat the ram over the rivet before applying full force.

Keep the hydraulic connections tight and periodically check to ensure it's fully bled. I say that because after using it for a while I noticed I needed to increase the pressure to properly set a rivet. I checked and it needed to be bled again. Once I did that I was able to get a proper set at the original lower pressures. platform on wheels.

Another helpfull idea is to place the intensifier on a 12" square 3/4" piece of plywood and attach small caster wheels at the corners. That way it doesn't stress the connections when moving it arround (or tip over).... just move the foot switch and the intensifier follows. That helped quite a bit.
 
The best feature besides being very light is the ability to feather the pressure to seat the ram over the rivet before applying full force.

Is it common for the traditional style pneumatic squeezers to not feather? I am able to feather mine very precisely. Wondering if I happen to have got a special one?
 
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I had one that didn't feather as part of a toolkit, it was a chinese clone. The problem was I didn't know what I was missing, I thought that was just the way they worked until I saw somebody else use one. I ended up just getting the Cleaveland Tool pnumatic squeezer, its awesome, worth every penny.
 
Compressible fluid vs. incompressible

While you may be able to feather a pneumatic squeezer, the force applied across the stroke is not linear. With the Numatx using incompressible hydraulic (ATF) fluid, the force is linear. Can make a big difference in certain situations.
 
While you may be able to feather a pneumatic squeezer, the force applied across the stroke is not linear. With the Numatx using incompressible hydraulic (ATF) fluid, the force is linear. Can make a big difference in certain situations.

Can you give us some examples of situations where the linear force would make a difference?
 
Odd length rivets. You need to get the washers sorted to get the squeeze on the cam.

Numatx is totally even throughout its travel.
 
If I had money to spend on another luxury tool, I would have a Numatx. The smaller size and lighter weight would sell me. That being said, if you already have and are comfortable with a good pneumatic unit and your like me and have to watch the budget, a pneumatic is still a major upgrade over a hand squeezer.
 
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Odd length rivets. You need to get the washers sorted to get the squeeze on the cam.

Numatx is totally even throughout its travel.

Anyone fooling around with washers needs to get an adjustable set holder. It is like a godsend for a pneumatic squeezer!
 
The 3 virtues of the Numatx squeezers

Thank you to the Numatx customers for the nice comments. It validates that all my hard work was worth the effort. A couple of points:

The 3 virtues of the Numatx squeezers are:

1. Lighter (1 lb without a yoke)
2. Smaller (3" shorter for access to more confined spaces)
3. Constant force over the total stoke range (not a peak force at the final 1/16" of travel like pneumatic only squeezers). = less fiddling around to find the force sweet spot, and no need to double squeeze some rivets in some situations. An adjustable set holder does help, but still you have to find the force sweet spot with a pneumatic only squeezer.

The 3 virtues above are all due to the fact that the hand-held portion is fully hydraulic. The constant force means for example you can squeeze AD470AD4-5, -7 and -9 rivets without any die adjustment. Not so for a pneumatic only tool. I posted quite a bit in the past to this effect.

PM me for plans of the C-frame tool. Maybe we will put them on the website at some point.
 
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Absolutely agree with virtues 1 and 2. Virtue 3 is a non-issue with the adjustable set holder that Cleaveland tool sells. Making adjustments becomes second nature quickly once you start using the adjustable set holder.
 
Absolutely agree with virtues 1 and 2. Virtue 3 is a non-issue with the adjustable set holder that Cleaveland tool sells. Making adjustments becomes second nature quickly once you start using the adjustable set holder.

I absolutely agree. There are very few rivets in the typical RV that require a double adjustment to the set holder to squeeze with a pneumatic.

Still, not knocking the Numatx, it is a very cool tool and looks to be well made and easy to use. I still would like to have one! I am addicted to tools! ;)
 
Price not as high as expected.

If I had money to spend on another luxury tool, I would have a Numatx. The smaller size and lighter weight would sell me. That being said, if you already have and are comfortable with a good pneumatic unit and your like me and have to watch the budget, a pneumatic is still a major upgrade over a hand squeezer.

Good to hear positive user experiences.

I looked up the price - $650, no yokes. But that is not too far off a new pneumatic is it?
If one uses the standard yokes, is something missing in the basic kit that would elevate the price? The C style still has most (many?) of the limitations for orientation in confined spaces.

Maybe if I build another . . .
 
Good to hear positive user experiences.

I looked up the price - $650, no yokes. But that is not too far off a new pneumatic is it?
If one uses the standard yokes, is something missing in the basic kit that would elevate the price? The C style still has most (many?) of the limitations for orientation in confined spaces.

Maybe if I build another . . .

Nope, if you have not already invested in a ?good? pneumatic squeezer, the Numatx would be a minimal up charge. In my case I already have so I can?t justify it. Another positive is that it appears they can share the same yokes so if you already have one or many yokes, you are golden.
 
I bought one at Airventure last summer.

Between the show special, and selling my old squeezer, the price delta was about $150. Well worth it for the upgrade.

I?m building RV-12?s with the kids now, nothing for myself so haven?t used it a ton, but what I have done I really like.

When I find the time to do another personal build, I?m sure I?ll get a ton of use out of it!

-Dan
 
constant force

Having constant force isn't a non-issue, it is just an added benefit. I have used a pneumatic squeezer with an adjustable set holder, to build my RV-7. The adjustable set holder does improve on the pneumatic tool over a fixed set holder and using shims. But you still have to make the adjustment for different length rivets.
 
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Good to hear positive user experiences.

I looked up the price - $650, no yokes. But that is not too far off a new pneumatic is it?
If one uses the standard yokes, is something missing in the basic kit that would elevate the price? The C style still has most (many?) of the limitations for orientation in confined spaces.

Maybe if I build another . . .


The Numatx unit uses standard CP214 yokes, which fit almost all pneumatic squeezers and manual squeezers like the Main Squeeze by CAT. It accepts standard dies with 3/16" shanks. All you might need is a regulator you can get at HF. Note that the unit should be oiled periodically, like any air tool. 5-6 drops of oil prior to each use, dropped into the air inlet prior to the foot valve is a good plan.
 
Having constant force isn't a non-issue, it is just an added benefit. I have used a pneumatic squeezer with an adjustable set holder, to build my RV-7. The adjustable set holder does improve on the pneumatic tool over a fixed set holder and using shims. But you still have to make the adjustment for different length rivets.

You still have to adjust the Numatx as well for the different rivet and die lengths. You just don?t have to double squeeze really long rivets which is an advantage over pneumatic for long rivets.
 
You still have to adjust the Numatx as well for the different rivet and die lengths. You just don’t have to double squeeze really long rivets which is an advantage over pneumatic for long rivets.

You MAY have to adjust the Numatx unit for different rivet lengths. The Numatx unit can squeeze -4, -6 and -8 rivets lengths with no die adjustment, and no pressure adjustment. The -4 to -8 rivet range is .25", the stroke of the unit is .55". To go from a -4 to a -12 rivet length would require a die adjustment.
 
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You MAY have to adjust the Numatx unit for different rivet lengths. The Numatx unit can squeeze -4, -6 and -8 rivets lengths with no die adjustment, and no pressure adjustment. The -4 to -8 rivet range is .25", the stroke of the unit is .55". To go from a -4 to a -12 rivet length would require a die adjustment.

How do you control the squeezed rivet dimensions?
 
How do you control the squeezed rivet dimensions?

Brian,

It's not necessarily intuitive when you're accustomed to the way that the pneumatic squeezers work. I'll try to, very briefly, explain the differences:

Pneumatic, traditional squeezers operate with you setting the travel of the ram. You have to readjust the travel for different lengths of rivets.

Numatx squeezers are COMPLETELY different. Numatx squeezers are adjusted by setting the pressure on the air supply. The air pressure acts on a hydraulic cylinder to close the ram, but just ignore that statement.

The important thing to know is that the Numatx squeezes the rivet based on pressure. What that means is that when the squeezer exerts XXX psi on the rivet, and the force required to squash the rivet to that point equals XXX psi, the squeezing stops. It stops right there, every time, very uniformly.

With the Numatx, you only need to know how many PSI are required to set a 3/32" rivet or a 1/8" rivet. This is dependent on your gauge, simply because gauges vary slightly. Once you know those numbers, you only need to set the air pressure input and rivets simply come out uniformly....regardless of length!! Only the rivet diameter affects the outcome. It's actually super simple once you do it.

Blake has the Numatx squeezers on his site:
https://www.flyboyaccessories.com/product-p/2701.htm
 
The Numatx squeezer is very, very controllable too. It would be more difficult to "snap" it shut unexpectedly because it operates smoothly and more slowly. Regular pneumatic squeezers are snapping turtles and you'd better be careful of your fingers!!!!

The Numatx squeezer head is very light and EASY to manage too. Not so for a pneumatic squeezer, which is typically a handful, and heavy yoo.
 
I bought a Numatx from Blake back in January. It’s still in the box, but I can’t wait to put it to use on my next build (which is also still sitting in the box).

I have a regular CP214 squeezer, too, that I don’t plan to sell, but I’m a tool junky and can’t stand the thought of not having one of everything!

It sure sounds like the greatest thing since sliced bread. I also emailed Mark Swinford and he sent plans to build a C-frame tool to hold the new Numatx squeezer.

Now I just need to buy a Tig welder and learn how to weld! :D
 
I bought a Numatx from Blake back in January. It’s still in the box, but I can’t wait to put it to use on my next build (which is also still sitting in the box).

I have a regular CP214 squeezer, too, that I don’t plan to sell, but I’m a tool junky and can’t stand the thought of not having one of everything!

It sure sounds like the greatest thing since sliced bread. I also emailed Mark Swinford and he sent plans to build a C-frame tool to hold the new Numatx squeezer.

Now I just need to buy a Tig welder and learn how to weld! :D

Don't need anything fancy to weld this. I built mine with a Hobart Handler mig welder with flux core wire and took a 2 hour lesson on how to use it.
 
Brian,

It's not necessarily intuitive when you're accustomed to the way that the pneumatic squeezers work. I'll try to, very briefly, explain the differences:

Pneumatic, traditional squeezers operate with you setting the travel of the ram. You have to readjust the travel for different lengths of rivets.

Numatx squeezers are COMPLETELY different. Numatx squeezers are adjusted by setting the pressure on the air supply. The air pressure acts on a hydraulic cylinder to close the ram, but just ignore that statement.

The important thing to know is that the Numatx squeezes the rivet based on pressure. What that means is that when the squeezer exerts XXX psi on the rivet, and the force required to squash the rivet to that point equals XXX psi, the squeezing stops. It stops right there, every time, very uniformly.

With the Numatx, you only need to know how many PSI are required to set a 3/32" rivet or a 1/8" rivet. This is dependent on your gauge, simply because gauges vary slightly. Once you know those numbers, you only need to set the air pressure input and rivets simply come out uniformly....regardless of length!! Only the rivet diameter affects the outcome. It's actually super simple once you do it.

Blake has the Numatx squeezers on his site:
https://www.flyboyaccessories.com/product-p/2701.htm

Thanks Vince,

Being in industrial automation for 25 years I am very familiar with air over hydraulic systems. I fully understand that part.

What was foggy for me was how the shop head dimensions could be maintained without some sort of fixed/mechanical stroke stop/limit. Your example makes perfect sense to me about the air pressure changes with 3/32" or 1/8" rivets. What I did not know is that the force required to control the shop head dimensions for a give rivet diameter don't change much with rivet length. It appears that is what allows the Numatx to work the way it does.

Anyway thanks for the additional info! Makes me want one even more but I also have a daughter entering college this fall so looks like I am out of luck :(
 
For what it's worth, here's a couple air pressure data points. Remember, your gauge may read differently. I'm using a cheap Harbor Freight gauge/regulator to control my squeezer.

I think about 45 to 55psi for 3/32” rivets and 75-80 psi for 1/8” rivets is a good starting point. You need to test this on your own unit to verify.

Another tip is to mount your hydraulic unit, regulator, and foot pedal on a board. This makes it easy to scoot the unit around the floor while your using the squeezer.
 
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Go back to page one and look at the start of my video. You will see the arrangement I copied off of Vince's setup I saw when he bludgeoned me into buying one at Sun n Fun 2 years ago :D:D:D

Best bit of kit I have in the shop.

Oh, apart from the beer fridge.
 
Would like to hear from some of the folks that have the Numatx with the actuator button on the handle. Wondering if that has been a worthwhile modification.
 
One of the main advantages of the Numatx is that your hands are free to hold the piece and the head. You squeeze with your foot.

Why would you want a lever on the head :cool:
 
One of the main advantages of the Numatx is that your hands are free to hold the piece and the head. You squeeze with your foot.

Why would you want a lever on the head :cool:

How’s that foot pedal going to work for you when you’re in an awkward position or tight spot? Like cramped up in the fuselage. The mod that I am referring to is not a lever. It’s a two stage button wired down the air tube to the foot pedal.
 
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How?s that foot pedal going to work for you when you?re in an awkward position or tight spot? Like cramped up in the fuselage.

I just have my dog, Jade, step on the pedal. She's a really smart dog. She manipulates the pedals while Dax drives the box truck too.

Dax-drives-Jade-navigates.jpg


But seriously, I'm a repeat offender and I can't recall using a squeezer while being cramped in the fuselage, but anything is possible. Nonetheless, it probably won't be a huge issue for most.
 
I have used my knee on several occasions. Your other hand actually works as well or elbow.

I haven't found a spot yet where I could not use it where I had to squeeze a rivet.
 
An adjustable set holder does help, but still you have to find the force sweet spot with a pneumatic only squeezer.

PM me for plans of the C-frame tool. Maybe we will put them on the website at some point.

Does this have, or do you need an adjustable set holder for this device? I really want to stay away from shims/set heights...

Can you please provide c-frame plans? I did not see them on the website.

Thanks...
 
Pneumatic squeezer - just use -10 washers, much quicker.

Numatx squeezer....... You don't need to ! You just have 2 pressure settings on your gauge, one for -3 rivets, 1 for -4 rivets. The whole thing self sets irrespective of rivet length.

It is wizardry !!!
 
Longer hyd hose?

Does anyone using the Numatx with standard 6' hydraulic hose ever wish for a longer hose?

I see that flyboyaccesories.com has an option for a 2' longer hose but it adds about $100. I am seriously thinking of buying a Numatx system and curious if $100 is best spent for more hose or something else.
 
Never found the hose length to be an issue. I nearly always use my unit sat on a stool, foot pedal at an easy distance. The head is so light it can get into tight spaces without doing your wrists in.
 
Any updates on the company? Facebook page hasn't been updated in over a year (and no reply to message, but in all fairness its only been a day), website won't allow purchase online, no stock at AS+S.
 
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