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Deregistered RV help

dmat

dmat

Well Known Member
Advertiser
Need some help on a current plane I am looking at.

The airplane's N# looks as if it was deregistered in 2011. I believe the registry lapsed. It states reason for cancellation is "Expiration"

A couple of items I noticed when looking up the N number:

1) "sale pending" is listed but I was assured that the airplane is still available
2) Certificate Issue Date states "None" and I would think the date of airworthiness certification would still be listed.

I am interested in purchasing the plane but I don't want to be stuck with a pile of parts...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
D
 
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dmat said:
Need some help on a current plane I am looking at.

The airplane's N# looks as if it was deregistered in 2011. I believe the registry lapsed. It states reason for cancellation is "Expiration"

A couple of items I noticed when looking up the N number:

1) "sale pending" is listed but I was assured that the airplane is still available
2) Certificate Issue Date states "None" and I would think the date of airworthiness certification would still be listed.

I am interested in purchasing the plane but I don't want to be stuck with a pile of parts...
Click to expand...
You don't need a DAR to do this. This is straight forward (for Government). With a little research you can navigate the paper trail. First place is FAA web site.

Must Read
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...ication/aircraft_registry/reregistration_faq/
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/std_awcert/
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf

You are making a NEW registration. You will go through the registration process from the start with a new N number. You will need to get the sales paper work. If you want a special N-number now is the time to reserve and request it. Otherwise they will assign something. The old number may NOT be available. I believe it is locked for 5 years after it expired. CALL FAA.

As far as airworthiness the plane should still have it's airworthiness since this does not expire, unless it was surrendered or reported destroyed. You can check this and it should be onboard the plane. CALL FAA...

The plane is not a pile of parts due to expired registration. However it is grounded until you take care of it. It could be a pile of parts if it is not safe, airworthy and comply with all the FAR's regarding airworthiness, like current condition inspection, current pitot static, all required equipment (like ADS-B if you fly through airspace requiring it), operating manual.

Do you belong to the EAA? If not join and go to local chapter meeting. Find the local Tech Advisors and RV pilots. You should have them look it over before it is flown. If you have no RV experiance get some dual in another RV. Consider another pilot doing first flight after coming out of mothballs. I assume it has not flown since it is illegal to fly with expired registration.

If this has been collecting dust for a long time, you might want to treat this as a NEW experimental aircraft. First obviously a complete air frame and engine inspection and services.It will need a condition inspetion by an A&P. Recommend you redo W&B and flight manual (which is required to have). The flight manual is developed during Phase 1 flight test. You may want to redo part of the Phase 1 flight tests at least in part.

FAA Oklahoma number for registration will get someone that does AC registrations all day. Because you are buying an un-registered plane, you will need to coordinate that with FAA. I don't think you can buy it (at least in FAA's books) until it is registered. Not sure if owner needs to register it and you then buy it. How you exchange money is up to you. Make sure it is not under a lien and they actually are the owner.
 
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Perhaps this airplane was damaged beyond economical repair, insurance got it and It was later sold and and put back together? That would explain a deregistration, long lapse and then a pending sale.
 
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Expiration

It is quite common for registrations to be cancelled for failure to renew every three years. It is also quite common for airworthiness to be missing from FAA website. I don't have an explanation for that except that is was due to mistake on the original airworthiness. Missing engine info and date of manufacture is also common.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
You don't need a DAR to do this. This is straight forward (for Government). With a little research you can navigate the paper trail. First place is FAA web site.

Must Read
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...ication/aircraft_registry/reregistration_faq/
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/std_awcert/
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf

You are making a NEW registration. You will go through the registration process from the start with a new N number. You will need to get the sales paper work. If you want a special N-number now is the time to reserve and request it. Otherwise they will assign something. The old number may NOT be available. I believe it is locked for 5 years after it expired. CALL FAA.

As far as airworthiness the plane should still have it's airworthiness since this does not expire, unless it was surrendered or reported destroyed. You can check this and it should be onboard the plane. CALL FAA...

The plane is not a pile of parts due to expired registration. However it is grounded until you take care of it. It could be a pile of parts if it is not safe, airworthy and comply with all the FAR's regarding airworthiness, like current condition inspection, current pitot static, all required equipment (like ADS-B if you fly through airspace requiring it), operating manual.

Do you belong to the EAA? If not join and go to local chapter meeting. Find the local Tech Advisors and RV pilots. You should have them look it over before it is flown. If you have no RV experiance get some dual in another RV. Consider another pilot doing first flight after coming out of mothballs. I assume it has not flown since it is illegal to fly with expired registration.

If this has been collecting dust for a long time, you might want to treat this as a NEW experimental aircraft. First obviously a complete air frame and engine inspection and services.It will need a condition inspetion by an A&P. Recommend you redo W&B and flight manual (which is required to have). The flight manual is developed during Phase 1 flight test. You may want to redo part of the Phase 1 flight tests at least in part.

FAA Oklahoma number for registration will get someone that does AC registrations all day. Because you are buying an un-registered plane, you will need to coordinate that with FAA. I don't think you can buy it (at least in FAA's books) until it is registered. Not sure if owner needs to register it and you then buy it. How you exchange money is up to you. Make sure it is not under a lien and they actually are the owner.
Click to expand...

Just one correction to the above: A flight manual / POH is not a required document. Just Registration, Airworthiness Cert, and Weight & Balance.

As noted above, if the airplane has just sat and the registration expired, it is not a major issue. If it was deregistered and "destroyed" that will be a problem.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
You don't need a DAR to do this. This is straight forward (for Government). With a little research you can navigate the paper trail. First place is FAA web site.

Must Read
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certif...ication/aircraft_registry/reregistration_faq/
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/std_awcert/
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf

You are making a NEW registration. You will go through the registration process from the start with a new N number. You will need to get the sales paper work. If you want a special N-number now is the time to reserve and request it. Otherwise they will assign something. The old number may NOT be available. I believe it is locked for 5 years after it expired. CALL FAA.

As far as airworthiness the plane should still have it's airworthiness since this does not expire, unless it was surrendered or reported destroyed. You can check this and it should be onboard the plane. CALL FAA...

The plane is not a pile of parts due to expired registration. However it is grounded until you take care of it. It could be a pile of parts if it is not safe, airworthy and comply with all the FAR's regarding airworthiness, like current condition inspection, current pitot static, all required equipment (like ADS-B if you fly through airspace requiring it), operating manual.

Do you belong to the EAA? If not join and go to local chapter meeting. Find the local Tech Advisors and RV pilots. You should have them look it over before it is flown. If you have no RV experiance get some dual in another RV. Consider another pilot doing first flight after coming out of mothballs. I assume it has not flown since it is illegal to fly with expired registration.

If this has been collecting dust for a long time, you might want to treat this as a NEW experimental aircraft. First obviously a complete air frame and engine inspection and services.It will need a condition inspetion by an A&P. Recommend you redo W&B and flight manual (which is required to have). The flight manual is developed during Phase 1 flight test. You may want to redo part of the Phase 1 flight tests at least in part.

FAA Oklahoma number for registration will get someone that does AC registrations all day. Because you are buying an un-registered plane, you will need to coordinate that with FAA. I don't think you can buy it (at least in FAA's books) until it is registered. Not sure if owner needs to register it and you then buy it. How you exchange money is up to you. Make sure it is not under a lien and they actually are the owner.
Click to expand...

Yep...that really sounds straight forward........ ;)

A good DAR would be very helpful.
 
Been there done that.

No you don't need to call the FAA.
No you don't need to hire a DAR.

Its simple.

1. Reserve the existing N-number if you're going to purchase it, just to keep a N-number squatter from taking it and ransoming it.
2. Complete bill of sale along 8050-2 with supporting documentation.
3. Complete registration form 8050-1.
4. Mail documents to OKC. Wait 4-6 weeks.
 
Thanks guys,

I am ok with changing the N number. As long as I can get it re-registered and have the Airworthy cert., I am happy.

D
 
DeRegister

When I did mine a DAR was required. Also the ReRegistered plane was put back into phase 1.
This was 20 years ago.
Things may be different now..
 
Bill of Sale

Make sure the bill of sale matches with the current owner of record with the FAA registry. There can be no gaps in ownership or the status of the documents can be questioned. That would make it more difficult to file the paper work going forward.
 
The "certificate" date is registration, not airworthiness. You can register your dishwasher, but without a C of A, it is not an aircraft.

Regards,

Gary
DAR
 
It may be a good idea to get the FAA data CD on the aircraft to see what paperwork is there.

Generally a good practice. Takes 1-2 weeks to get. I've found liens that hadn't been cleared, changed N numbers that then showed accident histories, etc.

If the airplane hasn't flown in a decade, there are lots of other things to consider too.
 
WingsOnWheels said:
Just one correction to the above: A flight manual / POH is not a required document. Just Registration, Airworthiness Cert, and Weight & Balance.
Click to expand...

And one more correction to this. It also requires Operating Limitations. Unlike Type Certified aircraft the Airworthiness Certificate of an EAB does not stand on it's own. The Special Airworthiness Certificate issued to an Experimental Amateur Built has to have the specific aircraft's serialized OL's with it at all times. So it is the combination of AWC & OL's that constitutes the airworthiness documents for an RV. Having one without the other has no value.

The saving grace here is that if OLs were ever issued they will be seen in the FAA records on CDROM that can be ordered from OKC for a small fee. That same CDROM will also have registration information so you can check for liens and verify chain of ownership. If the guy selling it doesn't have a clear chain of ownership (bill of sale or registration with his name on it) it could spell trouble.
 
jliltd said:
And one more correction to this. It also requires Operating Limitations. Unlike Type Certified aircraft the Airworthiness Certificate of an EAB does not stand on it's own. The Special Airworthiness Certificate issued to an Experimental Amateur Built has to have the specific aircraft's serialized OL's with it at all times. So it is the combination of AWC & OL's that constitutes the airworthiness documents for an RV. Having one without the other has no value.

The saving grace here is that if OLs were ever issued they will be seen in the FAA records on CDROM that can be ordered from OKC for a small fee. That same CDROM will also have registration information so you can check for liens and verify chain of ownership. If the guy selling it doesn't have a clear chain of ownership (bill of sale or registration with his name on it) it could spell trouble.
Click to expand...

The FAA loses these documents on occasion; I just went through this. The very first thing I would do is order the aircraft records from the FAA. They are cheap, and then you will know exactly what you have and what may be missing.
 
If you don't want to wait a couple of weeks or more for the CDROM of records you can order them from the likes of Aerospace Reports for about $30 and get them delivered digitally same day.
 
jliltd said:
And one more correction to this. It also requires Operating Limitations. Unlike Type Certified aircraft the Airworthiness Certificate of an EAB does not stand on it's own. The Special Airworthiness Certificate issued to an Experimental Amateur Built has to have the specific aircraft's serialized OL's with it at all times. So it is the combination of AWC & OL's that constitutes the airworthiness documents for an RV. Having one without the other has no value.

The saving grace here is that if OLs were ever issued they will be seen in the FAA records on CDROM that can be ordered from OKC for a small fee. That same CDROM will also have registration information so you can check for liens and verify chain of ownership. If the guy selling it doesn't have a clear chain of ownership (bill of sale or registration with his name on it) it could spell trouble.
Click to expand...

Good point, I forgot about those....
 
mattsrv7 said:
It may be a good idea to get the FAA data CD on the aircraft to see what paperwork is there.

Generally a good practice. Takes 1-2 weeks to get. I've found liens that hadn't been cleared, changed N numbers that then showed accident histories, etc.

If the airplane hasn't flown in a decade, there are lots of other things to consider too.
Click to expand...

IF you contact a DAR, they can get the same data on the CD electronically in a few minutes through EDRS.
 
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