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What is going on with insurance rates?

N941WR

Legacy Member
My insurance doesn't expire until June but recently I have filled out applications for two different brokers that have solicited my business.

Their quotes were 40% higher than what I paid last year. What's up with that?

I had heard that the insurance companies aren't covering their liabilities but if my insurance company comes back with a similar quote, I will drop back to just liability. I suspect I won't be alone in doing that, making it even worse for the industry.
 
My insurance doesn't expire until June but recently I have filled out applications for two different brokers that have solicited my business.

Their quotes were 40% higher than what I paid last year. What's up with that?

I had heard that the insurance companies aren't covering their liabilities but if my insurance company comes back with a similar quote, I will drop back to just liability. I suspect I won't be alone in doing that, making it even worse for the industry.

Bill, before you go liability-only take a look at ground-not-in-motion (GNIM) coverage. It doesn't cost a lot more than liability and covers the RV if the hangar is destroyed or the plane is destroyed/damaged while tied down on a ramp. I've had this coverage on my RV-6 since 2000.
 
I just renewed with Old Republic. Very small increase. Like $25.

I also have a $0 deductible Not-In-Motion clause. It came in handy when I was caught in a severe wind storm on a tie-down.
 
Did any of the quotes come from your current insurance company?

Not yet as my policy doesn't expire until the end of June. Just thought I would get some quotes early this year. Typically, I don't shop insurance rates but I had received a number of solicitations recently, I thought I would respond, much to my dismay!
 
Insurance

I guess I was lucky my insurance through Gallagher (Global) only went up $39 this year.
 
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Mine is up a little this year - not a lot.

But, if I look at my premium history, it was the highest for 2008-2011, then it dropped a bit 2012 - 2015 (a little higher than what I just renewed at) and from 2016 - 2019 it was down a bit. So it seems for 2020 it actually might be a case of back to normal rather than increasing significantly. (No accidents, incidents, claims, etc.)

The other thing I have to watch is chasing a lower premium at my age. For the elder crowd to which I now belong, the advice seems to be to stay where you are and not to sell your airplane if you want to keep flying.

Dan
 
I renewed mine last week with Old Republic and even though everything stayed the same my policy went DOWN $256 which surprised me a lot based on everything I’ve been reading everywhere.
 
I renewed mine last week with Old Republic and even though everything stayed the same my policy went DOWN $256 which surprised me a lot based on everything I?ve been reading everywhere.

Was there any changes on your end? Limits? New rating or anything like that?
 
My insurance doesn't expire until June but recently I have filled out applications for two different brokers that have solicited my business.

Their quotes were 40% higher than what I paid last year. What's up with that?

I had heard that the insurance companies aren't covering their liabilities but if my insurance company comes back with a similar quote, I will drop back to just liability. I suspect I won't be alone in doing that, making it even worse for the industry.

Markets are very tight right now for all kinds of insurance, not just GA. It?s a sellers? market right now, unfortunately.

Brian
 
My hull and liability insurance premium for 6-1-19/20 is up 40% over what it has been for the last four years. No claims; no changes; but I did turn 80 last year.

Here is the explanation from Gallagher for the premium increase: "We have been in a soft market for quite some time but we are now seeing the rates increase across the board from all the carriers. Your age also puts a factor in the increase in premium and unfortunatly this is the only option we have at this time."
 
Here is the explanation from Gallagher for the premium increase: "We have been in a soft market for quite some time but we are now seeing the rates increase across the board from all the carriers.


I don't believe that part about the soft market because mine went down this year. I believe the age is definitely the main reason.
 
And your statistical sample size of one outweighs all other evidence?

No? First, what evidence? I'm just replying to his comment, I haven't see any other evidence except what he mentioned and my own quote. Please explain why I was so lucky to get a reduced quote when everything stayed the same and I only flew about 25 hours last year? I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Besides that's just my opinion so unless you have any facts to back up why my opinion is wrong....then it's still my opinion and it's right.
 
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I have Old Republic via Gallagher and my insurance went down a little this year. Now I just started flying my RV last year, so maybe my rate didn't go down as much as it would have in the past with the significant increase in RV time, but overall I am happy with the rate.
 
I have Old Republic via Gallagher and my insurance went down a little this year. Now I just started flying my RV last year, so maybe my rate didn't go down as much as it would have in the past with the significant increase in RV time, but overall I am happy with the rate.

BINGO, I have the same Old Republic via Aviation West and it went down $256 this year so I guess I'm not the only one after all, go figure.
 
Fact is, aviation insurance is not like car insurance, where a computer is programmed to send you a quote. Most aviation insurance rates are set by one guy at the insurance company, reading your numbers, and coming up with a quote (given a lot of quantitative and qualitative information). Rates vary for all sorts of reasons. Only the brokers - who see a lot of policies - are really in a position to say if the average quote is going up or down.
 
Through work I see a ton of interesting data with regards to aviation.
Today an interesting spreadsheet showed up. It was a synopsis of all the ground based claims (no airborne accidents included) for an aviation insurance group. It included everything from C-172s to Gulfstream G650s and had a breakdown of each incident and the claim cost they paid out over the previous year. Due to the inclusion of some very high dollar aircraft the numbers can seem skewed and get pretty big in a hurry but what was really interesting and probably most telling was the look back over the last 15 years. That comparison was an average claim cost per year. Back in the early 2000s it was down around $50,000-ish per claim. Fast forward about 15 years and the average claim cost has jumped to a bit under $300,000.

Just some interesting data and food for thought.
 
Good grief!

That G650 might have been the brand new one that got hailed on at KCOS. I think it was golf ball sized or larger hail that day on a brand new jet.... :eek:
 
I've been with EAA/Falcon/Global for 12 years for my -9A. Full coverage of $75k on the hull and $1m liability. I have over 2100 hrs and 860 in make/model. I wasn't prepared for a 20% increase in my premium.
Kathleen chuckled when I called her about the error on her renewal quote. She said it went up because there are fewer aviation underwriters in the business these days. I was also to consider myself lucky because other owners experienced a 50-100% increase in their premiums. Many of those owners decided to drop their insurance coverage entirely, thus causing increase$ down the line.
She offered other options besides full coverage like liability-only coverage, ground-in-motion, or ground-not-in-motion coverage. I gave her my updated log book hours and she requoted the policy through Global for full coverage at what amounted to a 16% increase in premiums.
 
I have Old Republic through an independent agent, and my insurance premium this year has gone down vs last year. This is just for my Mooney 201 (still building the RV-10) which I purchased last summer. I flew more hours last year than the prior year, but not by a huge amount.
 
Profit

Insurance providers will ALWAYS make money. They are betting I don?t have an accident. It is a for profit business with a low tolerance for risk.
 
Between my 2019 policy and 2020 policy, mine decreased by $11 total premium - but I added an IFR rating and exceeded 1000 hours PIC during that time, both of which should lower my risk and likely offset the market increase. This was for my 9A with full coverage, $100k on the hull.
 
It seems like insurance rates are quite "variable" depending on a lot of things- I wonder if that is not only when the quote goes in for year but also the month and week.

My insurance policy expiry date was May and I received a quote for renewal in March before the airlines quit flying. My policy quote went down in price by a few nominal percentage points. I had been warned to expect 30 percent increases. I wonder if I was trying to renew now if it would be a huge increase.
 
Mine went down $15.00 this year! I guess that?s what you get by putting the third wheel in the wrong place Bill!
 
It seems like insurance rates are quite "variable" depending on a lot of things- I wonder if that is not only when the quote goes in for year but also the month and week.

My insurance policy expiry date was May and I received a quote for renewal in March before the airlines quit flying. My policy quote went down in price by a few nominal percentage points. I had been warned to expect 30 percent increases. I wonder if I was trying to renew now if it would be a huge increase.

Depends. Mine went down $8 year-over-year, quoted a week ago.
 
I forget who it was (so on one gets the blame if it is wrong....), but an insurance insider once told me that insurance companies make their money off of investing the premiums. They don't collect premiums from all their customers, then stuff that money in a mattress, hoping they don't have to pay out more than they collected - they invest it in stocks and bonds and whatever other schemes people use to make money from other money.

So....take a look at what has been going on In the financial world, and the chaos in the insurance world might make more sense....

Or not.

Paul
 
I forget who it was (so on one gets the blame if it is wrong....), but an insurance insider once told me that insurance companies make their money off of investing the premiums. They don't collect premiums from all their customers, then stuff that money in a mattress, hoping they don't have to pay out more than they collected - they invest it in stocks and bonds and whatever other schemes people use to make money from other money.

So....take a look at what has been going on In the financial world, and the chaos in the insurance world might make more sense....

Or not.

Paul

With interest rates at 1% on savings, hard to make any real money there.

For 150K hull coverage, with 1 mil liability, and GNIM, my premium is $4600/year.
That is nowhere near what I have in my plane, but can't afford to insure the actual build cost.

It's my understanding there is only one, maybe two underwriters in the experimental market.
 
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😡😡😡

Just received my renew notice on my RV7A and not happy!! Falcon ins with Global up 63% and due in August. Guess I better start searching as that eats into my fuel allowance.
George
 
Just received my renew notice on my RV7A and not happy!! Falcon ins with Global up 63% and due in August. Guess I better start searching as that eats into my fuel allowance.
George

If Falcon is a good agency - and I have no reason to think otherwise - searching won?t help, with the sole exception of getting a quote from Avemco.
 
Just received my renew notice on my RV7A and not happy!! Falcon ins with Global up 63% and due in August. Guess I better start searching as that eats into my fuel allowance.
George

George, my Global went up approx 12% in June using Sky Smith. Also using Sky last week, my brother's ins (forget name) was $400 less than the next quote.
 
Just got my renewal quote from Ghallager. About the same as last year. Was worried about the increases after all the chatter. Got my BFR today. Pay the premium and I am good for another year!!!
 
Two planes, both with Falcon, renewals a month apart.

The RV14 renewed first last month. Was up a small amount.

Just got the quote for the older Sonex - up over 50%!

Still haven't decided what to do on the Sonex.
 
What is going on with insurance rates

I asked because people say tailwheels are much more costly to insure than tricycle gear.

Thanks.
 
I asked because people say tailwheels are much more costly to insure than tricycle gear.

Thanks.

Seven years ago, with only 30hr TW time, my rate was about $1600/yr with $45K hull when I started flying my 4. Prior to the 4, my 172 cost $2100/yr with $50k hull.

Just renewed my 7 for the 3rd year through EAA Canada with $90K hull for $1400 (same as last year), now with about 850hr TW time. Turning 66 this year....how did that happen?
 
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If you're posting your insurance rates, please post your age since it was clear in the Gallagher rep's message elsewhere that the problemof insurance rates this year is impacting older pilots (I didn't know there was another kind :*) ) disproportionately and it would be interesting to see how that is playing out. Or not.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=184695

It's all very troubling for sure.

I just got the engine delivered. I'd dropped builder's insurance because of a 20 percent increase in just the builder's policy. I don't see where I have a choice now but to re-up.
 
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If you're posting your insurance rates, please post your age since it was clear in the Gallagher rep's message elsewhere that the problemof insurance rates this year is impacting older pilots (I didn't know there was another kind :*) ) disproportionately and it would be interesting to see how that is playing out. Or not.

Good point. No significant change for me in the last two years (low single-digit increases each year). Turned 49 this year.
 
+12%

57, no changes to my RV8, 23k+ TT, 400+ TW, no claims, rate went up 12% with Gallagher. When I asked them why my rate went up their response was “it’s a hard market and we hope it starts coming back down”. The only thing I can think of is that there seems to have been an increase in RV8 incidents.
 
I asked because people say tailwheels are much more costly to insure than tricycle gear. Thanks.
Premium is of course dependent on many factors. TW can be less than Trike...

Ways to save money (for less coverage) besides no insurance at all, is liability only. Another level is non-movement insurance. If your plane burns in a hanger fire for example or rammed parked on the ramp by another plane, you might get less costly coverage. The rates can be very reasonable. A lot of planes meet their demise parked. Two RV's I know of have had this kind of sad ending. This kind of insurance may not be offered any more. I had a 5 seat plane, and agreed to take the 5th seat out to save money. I get the feeling insurance companies are not willing to work with pilot/owners. Lack of competition?

With cars and homes it is almost mandatory to have them insured. Homes don't move but if in fire/flood/earthquake zones you will pay more (or not be able to get coverage).

No hull if you bend it you fix it.
 
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Ground Not in Motion

I don't believe that part about the soft market because mine went down this year. I believe the age is definitely the main reason.

I'm a bit confused, I changed to Ground Not in Motion and the price was still way up. I'm 74, but I don't see what my age has to do with the aircraft sitting in a hangar, seems to me to be the same risk as a 35 year old.

Anyway, I decided to self insure, tired of getting ripped off.
 
I just got a renewal quote for my insurance that went up by $950.00/yr with everything the same from last year except I now have an additional 125hrs of flying experience. Being 64yrs old I was expecting a rate increase, but not this much! Needless to say I will be shopping around or go with liability only. :eek:
 
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I just got my quote from Leah at Gallagher and it is unchanged from last year. That makes this year and last year the lowest I have paid over the 14 years of flying my RV. The coverage is with Global Aerospace. I am 58.
 
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