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Am I being stupid? x-wind practice

walkman

Well Known Member
I was going to title this "am I nuts" but I think know the answer to that.

Winds 16G22 today, nothing flying at the home airport, and I'm out trying to find the runway with the greatest cross wind component and practicing stop and goes.

I got 10 in and it felt like an hour in the gym.

Does anyone else put themselves through this sort of thing for fun?

:eek:
 
Standard day in Amarillo

16G22 That's a standard day here in Amarillo Don't know how to fly in calm conditions. ;). If I have to wait for winds 15 or below I'd never fly.
 
Me too!

I remember after being a pilot for a few years (a long time ago in a galaxy far away) I found that I was very apprehensive of crosswinds:eek:. I was living in PHX and decided to hire an instructor(a T-38 IP) at a local flight school to go up with me on a crosswind day. We did a LOT of to's and ldgs. It was excellent. With new skills and confidence I began going up on days with a crosswind just to keep proficient.

Well I am glad to say that crosswinds are a challenge I actually enjoy to execute competently. I remember one time landing at 1B6 in MA that the
winds were blowing at 25 G 40 when I arrived in the area with a C182. It was a landing with a high pucker factor...but I used the same technique to land safely (if not pretty) thanks to learning and practicing!

I like your idea....the only nuts are folks that fail to stay proficient in such
skills...then finding they have to use them when they are not prepared. :eek::(
 
...Does anyone else put themselves through this sort of thing for fun?

Yep. Guilty.

The only difference with me is that I don't usually look for crosswinds on purpose, they find me. Just the nature of geography - like it or not, we get plenty of crosswind practice at this airport.
 
Yup, 18G24 at 45 degrees. Just be sure and park into the wind; sure is a bug vertical stab and rudder on the RV-7 :eek:
 
Never let a good crosswind go to waste - you never know when the practice will come in handy I landed in a crosswind burbling over the trees at Dyersburg, TN once and had four touches before getting both mains planted. The RV-3 felt like a butterfly.
 
18G24 is way different in the hills of north GA than the flats of the plains or even the beach areas of FL.

I landing in South Dakota once when the winds were gusting low-30's. I heard the ATIS and about made myself sick thinking about the landing. On approach it was just like someone was holding the rudder about half deflection but there was no real turbulence. I planted the upwind wheel and had no issues. I'm not 100% confident I could do that at a few airport around here.

I enjoy some crosswind pattern work. I just hate going anywhere on very bumpy days.
 
At my airport (KDVO) some non-pilot long ago decided the new runway should align with the local highway. So, when the winds blow from the ocean we get turbulent flow from the nearby hills and an almost perfect 90 degree x-wind. CFI's from miles around bring their hapless students to Gnoss Field to joust with the wind socks, which sometimes point toward each other!

If the wind's blowing here, it's usually a cross wind. ;)
 
Yeah, sort of

Does anyone else put themselves through this sort of thing for fun?
:eek:
I'm a CFI, so I put others through this for fun :rolleyes:
Flying is a skill, practice is required for proficiency. Smart pilots practice!
Be aware of your current level of proficiency, so you don't violate the prime directive: don't do anything dumb! :eek:
 
Seems like every landing at my home airport (on the paved runway 13/31) is a gusty crosswind landing lately. Plus, the runway slopes downhill to the southeast and all of the hangars are on the west side of the runway. Guess which way the wind has been coming from most of the time lately when it's strong and gusty? That's right, from the southwest. The rotors and mechanical turbulence from all the buildings meet the runway just about right at the optimum touchdown point. :rolleyes:
 
At this point, I'm still working on my landings with the wind straight down the runway. One day I'll figure out how not to do 2 or 3 of them at a time.

But right now I have a grand total of 22 hours in the RV7, so I'm looking forward to improvement with time spent practicing.
 
18G24 is way different in the hills of north GA than the flats of the plains or even the beach areas of FL.

I landing in South Dakota once when the winds were gusting low-30's. I heard the ATIS and about made myself sick thinking about the landing. On approach it was just like someone was holding the rudder about half deflection but there was no real turbulence. I planted the upwind wheel and had no issues. I'm not 100% confident I could do that at a few airport around here.

I enjoy some crosswind pattern work. I just hate going anywhere on very bumpy days.

The winds coming off the hills north of us were ridiculous! I started to head over to Dahlonega (which I can't stop pronouncing like Phil Liggett Tour de France announcer) to buzz the strip but there was some nasty mnt wave and I gave up as the terrain rose.
 
At this point, I'm still working on my landings with the wind straight down the runway. One day I'll figure out how not to do 2 or 3 of them at a time.

But right now I have a grand total of 22 hours in the RV7, so I'm looking forward to improvement with time spent practicing.

After a couple hundred hours of RV time time I can tell you as soon as you paint a handful of landings on and start thinking "Yeah, I got this now" you will hobby horse one right down the runway. Its always when someone is watching.
 
While there is no substitute for the real thing, you can practice cross wind landings without a cross wind. Pick your side, dip a wing, and practice landing on the "upwind" wheel. In fact, I recommend this to new pilots so they get a feel for cross controlling the airplane and keeping the airplane straight and centered.
I agree with others in that the mechanical turbulence set up by a cross wind at many airports causes much more of a challenge than the actual cross wind. You are just as likely to balloon up as you are to have the bottom drop out. Keep your hand on the throttle and be quick to maintain your landing attitude and target airspeed, which I keep a touch faster when windy. Be prepared for a quick step on the rudder once you touch down as RV's like to weather vane....
 
X Wind Landings

I used to fly a BC-12D Talorcraft on days when the wind was blowing so hard, I could "hover" above the airport. And usually the winds were across the runway. Given that the Talorcraft stalled at 40 MPH, it was definately windy, and required one to fly the airplane onto the ground, sometimes at 2X stall speed. But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....

I was going to title this "am I nuts" but I think know the answer to that.

Winds 16G22 today, nothing flying at the home airport, and I'm out trying to find the runway with the greatest cross wind component and practicing stop and goes.

I got 10 in and it felt like an hour in the gym.

Does anyone else put themselves through this sort of thing for fun?

:eek:
 
I used to fly a BC-12D Talorcraft on days when the wind was blowing so hard, I could "hover" above the airport. And usually the winds were across the runway. Given that the Talorcraft stalled at 40 MPH, it was definately windy, and required one to fly the airplane onto the ground, sometimes at 2X stall speed. But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....

Please be careful. I lost a very good friend doing this in a Cub. It doesn't take much of a burble to stall one wing, and at low altitude there's little time to recover before you make a smokin' hole in the ground.
 
I'm a CFI, so I put others through this for fun :rolleyes:
Flying is a skill, practice is required for proficiency. Smart pilots practice!
Be aware of your current level of proficiency, so you don't violate the prime directive: don't do anything dumb! :eek:

Don't do anything dumb. Sometimes, that's a bit hard to know, a priori.

Which leads to one of my favorite (and most profound) sayings:

"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment"

Yes, don't violate the prime directive (if you can).

Crosswinds are fun, btw! ... and be careful out there.
 
But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....

I think a previous poster was curious how you could have been at the "stall point" in a 48-54 KT direct x-wind when even if you were crabbed 90 degrees to the runway, aligned directly into the wind at the "stall point" (43 KTS for a 6A), you would be flying backwards across the runway. The airplane would not be tracking the runway. I think either the description of your touchdown speed, or the wind speed and/or direction are a bit off.
 
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X wind landings

Why would anyone practice hovering at low altitudes?

Please be careful. I lost a very good friend doing this in a Cub. It doesn't take much of a burble to stall one wing, and at low altitude there's little time to recover before you make a smokin' hole in the ground.
 
Stupid is as stupid does

Last fall on a Saturday members of our EAA chapter were to fly out for lunch. The winds were 22G28 directly from the west. Rather than call and find out if it was still on my son Derek and I took off from 2WI6's, a N/S runway and headed to the meet up at Morey field on the West side of Madison. Landing there on 28 was no issue as it was directly into the wind. No one from our chapter was there though because the flyout was cancelled due to the winds. However there was an RV-7 that had just landed, the pilot and passanger were heading to the Wisconsin football game to cheer on the opponent. During a short conversation the RV-7 pilot stated that he decided to land at Morey rather than at the larger Truax field on the East side because the best runway option at Truax was 32, a 5800 x 150 runway that would have had a 50 degree crosswind. It made me think as we returned to 2WI6 for a landing on 36 that maybe I should have given more thought before flying in and out of a small grass strip with a strong, gusty crosswind..........I could not have made a better crosswind landing. Practice on and fly when others don't.
 
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X Wind landings

I guess my use of "Stall" might be inaccurate in somebody else?s terms. Relative to my forward movement in alignment with the centerline, I was probably at a 30* or more crab (certainly not a 90* crab as you stated). (Do the math an figure out the actual angle.) My indicated airspeed (the speed at which the air is moving over the wings) was at the stall point (58 knots indicated) when the left rudder, power application occurred, with the result being that the aircraft settled to the runway and was aligned with the runway. I do remember that we didn't use much runway, and that when we got out of the aircraft our carry-on bags were blown across the ramp (because of the windy conditions).
I strongly suggest learning to properly execute and the continuous practice of cross wind landings. You should know your limits, and the aircrafts limits and always be able to go to those limits.
Even if that means that you fly in those conditions to remind yourself why you don't fly in those conditions.......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Stucklen
But all that practice really became usefull one day when I did a GPS-27 approach into KeyWest with a 48 knot G54 90* cross wind, in the dark, in the rain, in an RV-6A (with the big rudder). The approach was sideways all the way into the flair, then just at the stall point, a burst of power and full left rudder. The result was a "plop" onto the runway with no sideloads, and no bounce! After two other commuter go-arounds, they closed the airport! So definately practice.....

I think a previous poster was curious how you could have been at the "stall point" in a 48-54 KT direct x-wind when even if you were crabbed 90 degrees to the runway, aligned directly into the wind at the "stall point" (43 KTS for a 6A), you would be flying backwards across the runway. The airplane would not be tracking the runway. I think either the description of your touchdown speed, or the wind speed and/or direction are a bit off.
 
I guess my use of "Stall" might be inaccurate in somebody else?s terms. Relative to my forward movement in alignment with the centerline, I was probably at a 30* or more crab (certainly not a 90* crab as you stated). (Do the math an figure out the actual angle.) My indicated airspeed (the speed at which the air is moving over the wings) was at the stall point (58 knots indicated) when the left rudder, power application occurred, with the result being that the aircraft settled to the runway and was aligned with the runway.


If I do the trigonometry assuming a 48 to 54 kt crosswind blowing at 90 degrees, and an indicated speed of 58 kt, I get 56 to 66 degrees as the required crab angle. Not quite 90, but I imagine you had a better view of the FBO than of the centerline?

Just a little too sporty for my taste!
 
I was fortunate enough to have a 90deg crosswind which was right at the aircraft's limits. The rudder was pegged. Lateral drift due to slight gusts was corrected for with power (p-factor having the same effect as additional rudder input). Put the airplane down without trouble. That was a fantastic confidence-booster, and a very good data point to add to the "big book of knowledge".

I could have used the intersecting runway if, after a couple of tries, I learned I wasn't able to handle the crosswind. This was a learning opportunity I didn't want to pass up!
 
Why would anyone practice hovering at low altitudes?

I called it landing with very low ground speed. One of the main reasons one own's a Cub (or similar plane). If you can't do this (in steady state wind conditions) you shouldn't be flying the Cub. (And technically, you can't fly a small plane like this where you have zero roll. But you can get close).

Now, with winds high enough to have zero or close to that landing roll, you won't be taxiing anywhere but forward.
 
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flight planning?

I guess my use of "Stall" might be inaccurate in somebody else?s terms. Relative to my forward movement in alignment with the centerline, I was probably at a 30* or more crab (certainly not a 90* crab as you stated). (Do the math an figure out the actual angle.) My indicated airspeed (the speed at which the air is moving over the wings) was at the stall point (58 knots indicated) when the left rudder, power application occurred, with the result being that the aircraft settled to the runway and was aligned with the runway. I do remember that we didn't use much runway, and that when we got out of the aircraft our carry-on bags were blown across the ramp (because of the windy conditions).
I strongly suggest learning to properly execute and the continuous practice of cross wind landings. You should know your limits, and the aircrafts limits and always be able to go to those limits.
Even if that means that you fly in those conditions to remind yourself why you don't fly in those conditions.......

Wow, your stick and rudder skills must be fantastic but I am wondering how you found yourself flying in those conditions in the first place. Did you take off knowing those conditions were forecast, encounter a thunderstorm at the field, hurricane?

do tell!

cm
 
The tire manufacturers must be loving this thread.

Shortly after starting to fly my 4 I was just touching down in a stiff crosswind when my engine chose that moment to die, apparently because the idle adjustment was set too low. It had never died before in any pre-flight idle tests or power off landings, but chose this particular heavy crosswind landing to cut out, which of course deprived me of whatever propeller-generated airflow existed over the rudder, and the plane started weathervaning into the wind despite full opposite rudder. Wouldn't you know I had the added weight of a passenger in the back at the time. I was forced to stab on opposite brake in addition to the rudder, and fortunately was able to apply the right amount of pressure to jerk the nose back and keep us going straight. The gear leg flexed enough that the paint cracked off the fairing at the junction between the leg and the fuselage, but fortunately didn't flex enough to suffer a permanent bend.

Obviously, I adjusted the idle thereafter (and haven't had a problem since), but maybe this illustrates a possible reason to carry power into a crosswind landing, even if the crosswind isn't gusty, because losing your engine in a crosswind landing definitely isn't what you want. One-sided braking is obviously the next resort if a crosswind is overcoming your rudder authority, but obviously you need to already be planted on the ground somewhat to use it.
 
while you're at it, practice some bad approaches, with/without flaps and such. I'd rather do these for the first time at my home airport without a passenger. having a FP prop most of my approaches now are high, followed with a slip, 'cause too low or slow won't work when the engine stops.
 
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