What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

RV-12 Economy

J

JBPILOT

Well Known Member
10-19-09 my RV-12 flew for the first time. I now have 182.5 hours. All is well.

Lets see - - 182.5 hours times avg. 4.8 GPH = 876 gallons of gas roughly, times 2.75 per gallon avg = $2,409.

If renting the FBO's 172 @ $85 per hour, times 182.5 hours ( cheaper in my area ) = $15,512.50

INTERESTING !

John Bender
 
Last edited:
Is that $85/hr include fuel? If it does, seems like a good deal.

Even so, make the assumption that 172 uses about 7.5gph, at a conservative $4.50 gal, that comes to about $33.75/hr in fuel.. so after 182.5 hrs $6,159 in just fuel.

If the aircraft rents for $85/hr dry, and Assumption that RV-12 would cost 75k to build/paint/misc, would come out to 882hrs to break even point. Of course, this doesn't count other factors as hangar and insurance...
 
The ability to go fly your airplane any time you want has a value far greater than a web discussion could ever convey.
 
Just got home

I live in "small town Iowa". The $85 is wet. One of the advantages of small town Iowa. Prices are lower for many things. Except for cold and plowing snow in the winter, it's a great place to live.

John Bender
 
More answers

Sorry - should have answered more things. If you add hangar rent, insurance, maint., and all, there is no way it is $15,000 a year ( in this area anyway ), so the RV-12 is much cheaper to fly, and yes the convenience is also nice. We have electric 40' Bi-fold doors, so very easy to get it out and fly. NOTHING at my airport is over 2 years old. Totally rebuilt. 8 new hangars are just about finished also.

John Bender
 
so far the numbers don't take into account the fbo's profit, correct? or your investment in the airplane, however that might come out in a per hour basis. tough to compare really.
 
Sorry -

Didn't want to start a major discusssion. I think the basic figures are 'interesting'. Everyone can put together their own figures for their area, and cost. Owning vs renting for me seems more than 'good'. Satisfied is me ! !

John Bender
 
Did you calculate the water & soap savings?

Every time I rented a 172 I had to go home and take a shower. ;)

Bada Boom tinnnng! :eek:


***************************

Seriously, John, you should be commended..... you like to FLY!

Anyone who fly's close to 200 hours a year, watch about 3 dozen grand kids play sports, and has time to come up with as many inventions / improvements for the -12 as you have should be commended for dedication to the RV-12 and the sport of LSA flying.

Even if you stole the ideas from Marty S. and me. hehehe (kidding)

Well Done John! Next year you need to fly 220 hours!!
 
Last edited:
My reason was -

To show those still sitting on the sidelines, that it is an economical plane to fly. The comparison to a 172 is fairly good. We can fly at roughly the same speeds for a lot less. Thanks Larry ( I think ) ! I think I have all the mods I want to make the plane a good plane for all seasons. Improving the heating system likely is number one for me.

John Bender
 
To add to this: each plane has its own mission....including the RV12. If you want an extremely economical plane to fly that can be built very fast and still has Van's "DNA" this is the one. John was a pioneer and took a few arrows (still is I see) but he took a few for me so I agree with John. And by the way, they fly faster than 172's.
 
Not only economical to fly but very economical to build. Add up the numbers and compare the RV-12 to any of Van's other models. Asume a nice panel and a zero time engine with a 2000 hr TBO. The RV-12 compares very favorably.

And as mentioned, nothing compares to being able to fly whenever you desire.

Will have to agree with John and all he has mentioned in this thread. Economical to build and VERY economical to fly. If cross country is all you will be doing, the RV-12 may not be the right choice. But, are not most of your hours within 300-500 miles of your home airport? The RV-12 excels here!
 
SIMPLE

I f you had a choice of (only) flying a C-172 or an RV-12, which would you pick? Guess that it comes down to personal choice. Personally, I can't wait to get out of the 'renting a C-172 RUT.

And, the RV12 makes it possible for me to be able to afford to fly - simple.
 
Yeah someone told me it would be far cheaper to buy a 15 - 20 year old 172 and fly it till I showed him what it cost to update the Avionics, interior, new paint etc to make it look new, along with a factory new engine etc. Not even a close comparison.

LSA may not be making it as cheap as everyone thought it would but it is certainly cheap enough that i can afford to fly without making family sacrifices.
 
UK Fuel Costs

Using John?s figures at the start of this thread, 876 US gallons equates to about 730 ?proper gallons?. Current price in UK (at today?s exchange rate) is $8.48. For the same fuel as John used (876 US gallons) it would cost $6190 her in the UK, 2? times the cost in the US and it?s only heading one way here, up! This equates to $7.06 per US gallon. You don?t know how lucky you are.
 
THANKS to all - around the world

That's an eye-opener for me also. That should get the attention of all of us. Thanks again !

John Bender
Iowa, USA
 
on the 60K lying around, don't fool yourself, by the time you are done you will likely spend 70-78, My budget is currently at 76,323.81 which includes all options, 1000.00 for my garage, tables, misc tools, etc, 1400.00 for the RV12 toolkit, kits, shipping, and $5500 for paint.

That said I sat on the fence waiting to save most of it to start and then realized if I just started a piece at a time I will eventually get it done, writing $5 - $8K checks every few months is easier than waiting for a year and if I run out of cash i jus have to worry about saving for the next piece. it may take me longer but i am finding the build to be very fun and a great sense of accomplishment.
 
I have been watching closely, an RV12 on Barnstormers for $89k made me wonder just how much the pride of building was really worth to me. Also been watching for some builder to give up and sell out for pennies on the dollar.
 
The best way to do it is to build it in a share :) My group of 4 is doing that at 7S3 (we got a bunch of help organizing from Dick VanGrunsven), and we are all only going to be in the plane ~16k and will have it done in about 6-7 months total (another month or two to go!).

Definitely the best way to go about it.
 
Not sure I want to be in a partnership, I might if finances dwindle but i hate having to cancel flights I want to take when I have limited time.

Currently renting and have the following issues:

1.) The owner of either plane can and do cancel you reservation when they want the plane (i.e. no major fly ins unless they are out of town)
2.)School doesn't want the plane gone all day because they lose student revenue, both LSA are very popular
3.) Damage done by ther students and renters, both planes have been crashed 1 never returned the other minor (noone hurt thank goodness)
4.) Plane kept on ramp, school bought second LSA, both destroyed by hail
5.) 3 times I have driven the hour to the airport and had to cancel because someone left the master on and killed the battery, no simple way to jump start the Evektor.

So a Partnership I envision similar issues:

1.) I only fly on weekends and usually both days so would need someone or multiples retired who want to fly on the weekends
2.) I want to go to the major airshows and take my son, I am sure some arrangement would have to be made
3.) If someone breaks the plane the partnership starts to sour because everyone is worried the same will happen again
4.) I like building the plane in my garage and sometimes just run out their for an hour between conference calls, do not want to drive anywhere to build and don't want three relative strangers hanging out at my house when I am out of town. (Also if someone messes up a part and isn't honest about it you either have a compromised airframe or an argument over who is paying for replacement.)

OK maybe tis all sounds selfish but isn't that why I am building a plane, I don't want to be shackled to anyone elses time, money, or ego issues.
 
It obviously isn't for everyone, but we're setting it up in a way that'll work for a bunch of 'moderate' fliers.

1- Our group is about 1/2 and 1/2. I'll be doing most of my flying during the week, others will be weekends, and we'll split on other time frames. We obviously cannot fly ALL weekend every weekend, but we expect availability to be high.
2- The whole group has jobs, so going to airshows would take a bit of planning for everyone. We still plan on being able to divy them up fairly easily though, since our group doesn't have much interest in going.
3- That is what insurance is for :) The sour feelings are avoided by just joining in with a good group of people.
4- We are using a hangar, so the driving is a necessity I guess, but we decided early that everyone would split mistake costs. It saves the headache of arguments and has been a pretty easy decision so far.

Ego issues are the biggest deal which can be solved by choosing the right partners. I know the partnership isn't for everyone, but if you are an moderate-use pilot, the share works fantastically. In our case we all get a plane that gets constructed in roughly 6-7 months with good build quality (Dick has complemented us on the work), and significantly reduced costs.

I think the increased build quality comes from having someone watching over your shoulder all the time, as well as someone to ask if you aren't sure how to do something. Additionally, we've avoided the standard 'burn out' problems that many builders have by having them offset enough that work never seems to slow :)

Definitely something that should be considered by someone considering a build.
 
If you would like an RV-12 without the cost of buying tools and supplies, I know where there will be one in about a year and a half. We are just getting into a group build at a local high school. The finished plane will sell for cost, and it will be well done. We actually are looking for someone to "up-front" the airframe kits now. This will almost have to be someone from the Midwest as the buyer should see the build progress. If you are interested, drop me a PM. I will be posting on this soon, but this is a heads-up.

Bob Kelly
 
clucier said:
Yeah someone told me it would be far cheaper to buy a 15 - 20 year old 172 and fly it till I showed him what it cost to update the Avionics, interior, new paint etc to make it look new, along with a factory new engine etc. Not even a close comparison.

LSA may not be making it as cheap as everyone thought it would but it is certainly cheap enough that i can afford to fly without making family sacrifices.
Click to expand...

Clucier:

Not sure who told you it would be far cheaper to buy a 15-20 year old 172 and fly it. Perhaps in the short run but they are dead wrong in the long run (unless it is being flown without proper care). I speak from experience, having a 38 year old 172. Even without upgrades to avionics, interior- just addressing the usual squawks that come with an aging aircraft, the cost of annual inspections, etc., etc. I have a good friend who was my A&P/IA and I have always assisted with my annuals, but even with my help they were still not cheap. Recent quote for a basic annual for a 172 from a local FBO was nearly $1400 and that did not include parts for the annual nor would that cover any squawks. And airframe parts are incredibly expensive. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that it is not even a close comparison!

Jeff
 
We all build because we like to fly. We all build because we like to build. I haven't seen a post that places a value on the opportunity to build. To build and then fly what you have built-priceless!
 
UK Fuel Costs

Quick update on UK fuel costs. At todays rates 1 US gallon unleaded is $8.30 here in UK.
 
YIKES! I hope world events settle down some... It seems like every time the US gas prices start to stabilize down something else stupid happens that cause the prices to jack up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top