VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #21  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:08 AM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,150
Default

Scott hit it on the head.

"Light IFR" is nothing but a lie we like to tell ourselves. Equip it properly, and use it frequently, and you'll be much better off.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:21 AM
506DC 506DC is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 38
Default Enroute IFR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Rat View Post
The check ride question is one for your examiner. Some will likely not want to do a check ride without an ILS. But then again, some won't do a check ride in an experimental no matter how well it's equipped.

As others have said, It's no big deal for a BFR.

Checkride question aside, theres no way would I fly hard IFR to low minimums without the capability to do an ILS. That's my opinion, others have their own comfort level.

If you're more of an enroute IFR guy that stays home when the ceilings are less than 800' then yeah sure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to shoot LPV approaches, but the idea of having all my eggs in the GPS basket and maybe being stuck if it craps out and everywhere within reasonable is socked in leaves me a little uneasy.

Also, If you're doing vectors to final, Approach will vector you closer in on an ILS that they will on a GPS approach.
I totally agree with the above statements. I also believe in practicing filing IFR even in VFR conditions. I have VOR/ILS and non certified GPS including an IPad using Foreflight. My most reliable GPS is my IPad until it flames out do to excessive heat. Keeping the screen shaded helps but is not always reliable against ultraviolet rays. I have had several GPS signal failures but no intermediate ILS failures. In my experience with VOR/ILS either works or it needs repaired. I have never experience intermediate shut downs due to excessive heat and signal loss like I have with a G5, Ipad and instrument mounted GPS.

About that 800ft ceiling, numerous times over the years forecasts aren't always that accurate. I returned to Fresno last week after a trip to Oregon just after the Creek Fire. Visibility dropped unexpectedly to less than a mile and skies were obscured. I was fortunate to be IFR rated, current and equipped. These RV aircraft are superior cross country airplanes capable
of traveling into different weather systems on the same flight. The good news is that they are also capable of navigating around weather and especially now with en-route weather provided by ADSB-IN.
__________________
Dale

RV-4 Fastback completed in 1997
C-170B
Transition training
Taildragger instructor
CFII MEI
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-14-2020, 05:52 PM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
With something as mission-critical as an IFR approach, I can't figure out for the life of me why people continuously try to find the cheapest, most ill-equipped way to get there.
That is why "aviation regulations are written in blood".
__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-14-2020, 05:58 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,172
Default

I am curious, if there is no such thing as light IFR is there such a thing as VFR?
G
__________________
RV-6 sold
F-1 Rocket
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-14-2020, 06:27 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
I am curious, if there is no such thing as light IFR is there such a thing as VFR?
G
YEP............
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:01 PM
scard's Avatar
scard scard is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,160
Default

I’ve come to think that VFR assumes the pilot will never fly into A below minimum weather condition based on their ability. “Light IFR” allows us to assume they/we Will.

I speak from my own mistakes and experiences. This is obviously a topic that we pilots hash out repeatedly, which is ok. We’re afforded more words if we survive our mistakes as we move forward. If we come up short, the conversation goes quiet.
__________________
Scott Card
CQ Headset by Card Machine Works
CMW E-Lift
RV-9A N4822C flying 2200+hrs. / Cedar Park, TX
RV8 Building - fuselage / showplanes canopy (Done!)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:21 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,812
Default

I think this issue is that if one is flying basic VFR (3 miles or more) the wx really is pretty good. It takes a big change in humidity, temp, etc., to make the wx get significantly worse. Pilots who do the vfr into ifr thing almost always (1) had no wx briefing, or (2) continued to fly into deteriorating conditions. It's rare for the wx to just go that bad, unforecasted. OTOH the difference between 2 miles and 1/2 mile, or 800 OVC and 100 OVC, isn't really that great. If the vis is 2 miles, that means it's already humid, close dew point-temp spread, etc. Or a missed forecast of 700' in ceiling. So 'easy'IFR and "hard" ifr aren't that far apart, wx-wise.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:31 PM
airguy's Avatar
airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
I think this issue is that if one is flying basic VFR (3 miles or more) the wx really is pretty good. It takes a big change in humidity, temp, etc., to make the wx get significantly worse. Pilots who do the vfr into ifr thing almost always (1) had no wx briefing, or (2) continued to fly into deteriorating conditions. It's rare for the wx to just go that bad, unforecasted. OTOH the difference between 2 miles and 1/2 mile, or 800 OVC and 100 OVC, isn't really that great. If the vis is 2 miles, that means it's already humid, close dew point-temp spread, etc. Or a missed forecast of 700' in ceiling. So 'easy'IFR and "hard" ifr aren't that far apart, wx-wise.
Depends a lot on where you live. Out here in west Texas, it takes a LOT of weather to go from our standard 20+ visibility and unlimited ceiling to 2000' overcast with 5 miles viz - but from there it is a very short leap to true low IFR conditions and 500-foot viz in fog with obscured ceiling.

The first time you fly an approach to actual no-BS minimums and then go missed for real, it changes your perspective. Done that, been there. Come to think of it, the second time that happened to me I had about 1/8" of unforecasted ice on the airplane. Things get very real, and very fast, like that. It's not a place you want to be without options.

Shortly after I got my IFR, I was expanding my personal minimums into lower and lower ceilings - and the perfect day came up where Midland was calling 200-300 foot ceilings, and there was a breakfast fly-in at Abilene that was calling for 800-1000. Bingo, gear up, lets go - I had a good "out" in case the weather got worse and I could dip my toes in the pool without much danger. The three approaches I shot into Midland were all 300-400 foot breakouts, and I went to Abilene for breakfast - and broke out at 250 feet. There were about 50 people there for breakfast that morning, and I was the only idiot that flew in. Forecasts are like politicians - don't trust 'em.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

Last edited by airguy : 09-14-2020 at 08:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:25 PM
Xlr84fun Xlr84fun is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 32
Default Forecasts are like politicians

Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
Forecasts are like politicians - don't trust 'em.
For sure Greg...I have to agree.
__________________
Bryan

RV-7 Tipper in the works
IO-360-M1B w/ a Hartzell
N772RV
Bryan.Weinzettle@yahoo.com
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:51 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy View Post
I went to Abilene for breakfast - and broke out at 250 feet. There were about 50 people there for breakfast that morning, and I was the only idiot that flew in. Forecasts are like politicians - don't trust 'em.
Nothing like flying into genuine 1/2 mi vis at night. At DH(A), you see blurry approach lights. Nothing else; no runway lights, no vasi, ... You have no horizon reference, you need to stay on the gauges. At 150’ agl you see the lights at the beginning of the runway. This is no place for a 100 knot approach. I’m “blessed” to have this sort of wx available fairly often in CA’s central valley, while solid vfr airports are only 15 minutes away.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:29 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.