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  #11  
Old 09-07-2020, 07:39 PM
dabney dabney is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: valencia, ca
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Default Why are you doing a “full stall” landing in the first place?

I consider myself your average , run of the mill, RV6A pilot. I owned my plane for 15 years and about 1000 flight hours. Unless you are landing on a very short runway why do what you did and risk damaging the gear especially the nose gear which is fragile. What if you misjudge your height a little as happened to you or you have a change in the wind speed or direction ? There are instructors that may well jump into this conversation and explain it better. I carry enough speed to maintain nice controllability, control the sink rate, allow for any gusty conditions and always land on the main gear and hold the nose gear off until it settles on its own at about 40ish. Yes, at 5’10” I do not see the runway over the nose but that’s common for most airplanes I have flown. Rod Machado a well
Known instructor and writer has some videos describing how to judge height above runway during the landing phase.
The only time I ever hit the tail tie down ring was foolishly participating in a “closest to the line” landing contest and kept raising the nose to try to hit the spot .
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2020, 08:48 PM
Northernliving Northernliving is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boston, MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD View Post
Here are some articles by Van himself that may be of interest.
Articles: "How to Fly an RV", "How to Land an RV", "How to Land an RV, Part 2", and "How to Fly a Nose Gear RV".
Thanks for the link Carl. I gave up on 3 pointers in my -8 and just wheel it on. The nose attitude is just to high in the stall. According to Van, I’ve bypassed the process of learning to 3 point it (although every other tail wheel I’ve flown, I’ve three pointed). I have some practicing to do!
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:16 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernliving View Post
Thanks for the link Carl. I gave up on 3 pointers in my -8 and just wheel it on. The nose attitude is just to high in the stall. According to Van, I’ve bypassed the process of learning to 3 point it (although every other tail wheel I’ve flown, I’ve three pointed). I have some practicing to do!
You're welcome!

With my RV-8, I normally wheel it on, tail low.

A friend who also has an RV-8 likes to three-point his, and does it quite well.
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:37 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabney View Post
I carry enough speed to maintain nice controllability, control the sink rate, allow for any gusty conditions and always land on the main gear and hold the nose gear off until it settles on its own at about 40ish.
Same here. My home airport has the typical wind at 90*, with a decent amount of rotors from the trees and buildings. I learned early on that landings very close to stall speed create real challenges in my environment. I eventually began to carry extra speed and lengthen the flare distance. This allows me to work through the up/down activity in the rotors and "feel for" the ground with my wheel. Yes, I end up landing 5-10 mph faster than necessary and may take some life off my tires. ON the flip side, I never "drop it in" with the risk of landing flat and having a bad nosewheel day. If things are calm, I just extend the flare longer and land closer to stall speed. This approach always has me off the runway in 2000' and I don't real go to airports with shorter runways.

This applies only to my 6A. The 10 is a different animal and is not upset by the rotors the way the short stubby wings of the 6 are.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 09-08-2020 at 07:42 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:00 AM
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AlexPeterson AlexPeterson is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
Same here. My home airport has the typical wind at 90*, with a decent amount of rotors from the trees and buildings. I learned early on that landings very close to stall speed create real challenges in my environment. I eventually began to carry extra speed and lengthen the flare distance. This allows me to work through the up/down activity in the rotors and "feel for" the ground with my wheel. Yes, I end up landing 5-10 mph faster than necessary and may take some life off my tires. ON the flip side, I never "drop it in" with the risk of landing flat and having a bad nosewheel day. If things are calm, I just extend the flare longer and land closer to stall speed. This approach always has me off the runway in 2000' and I don't real go to airports with shorter runways.

This applies only to my 6A. The 10 is a different animal and is not upset by the rotors the way the short stubby wings of the 6 are.

Larry
Larry, I completely agree. That is how I've done 2500 or so landings.

It would be interesting if someone could measure the pitch angle of an RV-6 when on the gear, to see what pitch angle is achieved when landing 3-point.
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:33 AM
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DeeCee 57 DeeCee 57 is offline
 
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Quote:
pitch angle of an RV-6
As far as I recall we measured mine at 9°. And the reason I abandoned the install of a Bell fork since it raised the tail by an inch or so. I like the ability to operate in/out of short strips and set my minimum runway length at 600ft. No wheelies for me, thanks
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2020, 08:44 PM
NewbRVator NewbRVator is offline
 
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I think a really good exercise is to fly just above the runway. Literally try to keep the plane off the runway a couple inches at 65-70knots and never touch.

Do that over and over and maybe even let it touch the mains then power up, up, and away. No more plopping and you’ll dial in your sight picture without wearing out your gear, tires, and brakes.

Just a thought
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2020, 09:11 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbRVator View Post
I think a really good exercise is to fly just above the runway. Literally try to keep the plane off the runway a couple inches at 65-70knots and never touch.

Do that over and over and maybe even let it touch the mains then power up, up, and away. No more plopping and you’ll dial in your sight picture without wearing out your gear, tires, and brakes.

Just a thought
It's discussed by Van in the second article in post #7, plus more good stuff.
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RV-8, 790 Tach Hours
(Pic 1),(Pic 2)
- Out with the Old, In with the New
(Pic)
RV-8, 1938 Tach Hours (Pic 1),(Pic 2) - Sold

Glasflugel Standard Libelle 201B - Sold
Rolladen-Schneider LS1-f - No longer owned

Last edited by RV8JD : 09-09-2020 at 09:14 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2020, 11:39 PM
iaw4 iaw4 is offline
 
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Location: Los Angeles, ca
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but if you do this (practice flying slowly without landing), make sure you have a good instructor next to you in the cockpit to rescue you.

see, this is basically what I did...unfortunately at a different and much wider runway. my visual picture was dialed into my usual runway, so I was higher than usual / what I thought I was. maybe a foot too high. after coming in from 130 knots at and 2,000' into a different airport, misjudging the diagonal visual angle while trying to keep my eye on the runway is not a difficult mistake to make.

well, I decided to just hold it back more and more and more...until the short wing either suddenly gave way while I was still my foot too high or I struck the tail. in either case, the result is the same...a new front wheel fairing and a lot of hurt pride. an instructor in the other seat would have warned me. having him/her there is also what Van recommends.

to repeat, this sort of landing is not necessary at all. on most asphalted runways, a perfectly good landing does not need to be at stall speed, at all, and it avoids an unnecessary source of problems.
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