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Panel draft, round 3

rmartingt

Well Known Member
My last attempt at this was the better part of a year ago. Since then I've revised my plans a bit--ditched the throttle quadrant, and more to the point, decided I'm probably going with GRT instead of Dynon (there are a few extra features I like, and the availability of a 978 ADS-B Out system is a plus in my book).

I've gotten to two concepts lately--one with a GRT Mini built in, and one without (I could get a D3 and plop it up top for IFR).

These are still drafts. Nothing is yet set in stone.

I intend for the aircraft to eventually be IFR equipped and to get my rating in it.

This concept is for the eventual full panel--it's likely that I won't have everything all there initially ("fitted for but not with" as the saying goes). IFR GPS and possibly the RH screen may be just cutouts with blanking panels at first flight. But the RH screen will make it in first, as most of my likely right seaters will at least know what they're looking at and be useful with it.

Switches are assumed to be TL toggles unless noted in yellow. Dashed rectangle is width for dual-pole switch.


Switch placement may seem haphazard but there's a purpose--all my electrical system stuff is on the left. Engine and fuel is in the center. Lights and accessories on the bottom left. Reversionary stuff up top (I won't be using it unless something goes wrong).

I'm getting ready to hang the engine (again) and do cowl fitting so I have time on this. Fire away ;)

And for those wondering--no red knob; it's an SDS EFI system.
 

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SDS programmer cutout < 6.25"

Hi Bob,

Be aware the SDS Design 1 Programmer panel cutout is less than 6.25" wide. The box behind the panel is 6.25" wide.

Ref install manual and attached images.
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I know; I have one of the programmers in hand and have modeled it in CAD (accurately) for the final iterations. This is just a rough arrangement drawing because the picture is easier to work with at this stage..
 
#1. You'll be glad not to have anything projecting above your glareshield.

I would suggest replacing the landing & taxi with a 3 position switch: OFF / WIGWAG / ON. With LED landing lights there's not so much reason to want to operate them separately WRT current-draw, plus there's some overlap so it helps having them both on while landing and taxiing. And the wig wag feature is good for safety. And it eliminates a switch.

Also suggest moving the cabin heat knob up to the main panel, to separate it from engine functions, plus that's just a lot of knobs on that sub-panel. Cut a hole big enough for the knob and attach it from the back with a backing plate so the main panel can be removed without pulling the whole cable out.
 
#1. You'll be glad not to have anything projecting above your glareshield.
I wouldn’t have the D3 up there normally, only for IFR flights (if I go that route). But I’ll try that out with my dad’s RV-6 one day (maybe 3D print a box and tape it there to see how bad it is).

I would suggest replacing the landing & taxi with a 3 position switch: OFF / WIGWAG / ON. With LED landing lights there's not so much reason to want to operate them separately WRT current-draw, plus there's some overlap so it helps having them both on while landing and taxiing. And the wig wag feature is good for safety. And it eliminates a switch.
I’m actually planning on both of them being 3-position switches; the landing light as you suggest and the taxi lights set up to use the “flood” feature FlyLEDs offers (OFF-TAXI-FLOOD). That feature illuminates the strobe continuously at lower power to put light around the wingtips and it seems good for obstacle clearance. I Also want them independent because I’ll have a taildragger and don’t want to be blinding others or blasting light up in the air if I’m taxiing. Not that I plan to do a lot of night flying, but I’ve done a couple late evening flights in Dad’s -6 and his lighting is... sub par.

Also suggest moving the cabin heat knob up to the main panel, to separate it from engine functions, plus that's just a lot of knobs on that sub-panel. Cut a hole big enough for the knob and attach it from the back with a backing plate so the main panel can be removed without pulling the whole cable out.
Interesting point... maybe I’ll put it over on the passenger side since my wife’s the one who will probably use it anyway...
 
I Also want them independent because I’ll have a taildragger and don’t want to be blinding others

That's a common concern but rarely happens in practice, at least in my experience though it will no doubt differ with where / how you fly. Anyway you'll never compete with the bizjets etc. when it comes to blasting lights at others :)

But the main thing is, I feel like flipping light switches is simply an unneeded distraction during the critical phases of takeoff / landing / taxi. All I have to do is switch from wigwag to ON in the pattern then OFF at the parking spot. And even with LEDs, I find I want all the light I can get during both landing and taxi.
 
Come fly with me and see some concepts in operation

General comments on left layout:
* Group your switches by when you use them, not by function. It looks to me like you’ve got four tanks and no fuel selector valve, so get the ignition and the ECU select away from the fuel switches so you don’t hit the wrong one;
* Write out all your checklists, including emergency checklists, and play them against your switch layout. Consider the flow of the checklists;
* I doubt you’ll need locking toggles on any switches;
* Cowl flap and cabin heat are really different, so separate them;
* The right side screen is far enough away as to compromise its readability from the left seat. Move the standby attitude indicator to the far left so that you can shrink the center stack. On my Garmin system, I use the inboard half of each screen for MFD, the outboard half of each screen for PFD, with engine instrument full outboard on each side;
* Suggestion: try some layouts with the screens showing half PFD, half MFD is GRT supports that. There are really cool things you can do that way. I’ve found that the little inset screens are useful mostly for telling you when you need to blow them up to half screen
* Cross feed? Really?
* Minimize the size of the knob panel under the instrument panel. Knees will appreciate it!

General comments on right layout:
* Again, move the right screen in. Centering it is not that big a deal – it’s glass, so no parallax;
* Standby shouldn’t be atop the panel;
* Flaps traditionally go to the right of the power instruments;
* You’ve got lots of valuable space wasted in the center stack. If you moved the switches…

Come fly with me in the RV-9A this weekend in Savannah and you can try different screen arrangements. I’m a CFII, so you can fly either seat.

Ed
 
Ed has some great comments. However I would differ on the flap switch. I put mine close to where he has it, actually on the main panel where he has his IGN1. It's convenient to be able to operate the switch with my throttle-hand thumb. Maybe not so much if you also have a flap switch on the stick however.
 
Ed has some great comments. However I would differ on the flap switch. I put mine close to where he has it, actually on the main panel where he has his IGN1. It's convenient to be able to operate the switch with my throttle-hand thumb. Maybe not so much if you also have a flap switch on the stick however.

Thanks!

The reason for flaps on the right is to conform with standard GA practice, written up in FAR23. Yes, we fly experimentals and can do what we want, but some day somebody used to having the flap switch on the left will be flying something else and wonder what that scraping noise is when they retract the "flaps." And consider the standardization enforced in motorcycle controls -- I doubt that any custom bike builders improvise there!

I've not found that I've ever needed to extend flaps in a hurry. The times I've wanted to retract flaps all at once was on rollout in the RV-8, and the annoyance was that I had to hold that switch to retract the flaps. If it would stay put in the flaps up position, that would have been sufficient workload alleviation.
 
General comments on left layout:
* Group your switches by when you use them, not by function. It looks to me like you’ve got four tanks and no fuel selector valve, so get the ignition and the ECU select away from the fuel switches so you don’t hit the wrong one;
I have a fuel selector in the standard place (visible here). The Fuel 1 and 2 switches are for the main pumps (no mechanical pump with EFI). The transfer switches are just backup to make sure that fuel moves from the outboard to inboard tanks—they should transfer automatically by siphon.
* Write out all your checklists, including emergency checklists, and play them against your switch layout. Consider the flow of the checklists;
On the list to do, but haven’t gotten there yet. Thanks for the reminder. Maybe that’s what I can work on this evening...
* I doubt you’ll need locking toggles on any switches;
The “keep the fan turning” switches will be. It’s piece of mind.
* Cowl flap and cabin heat are really different, so separate them;
Yeah, I think I might move that one to the side; maybe a little standoff bracket off the cabin wall.
* The right side screen is far enough away as to compromise its readability from the left seat. Move the standby attitude indicator to the far left so that you can shrink the center stack. On my Garmin system, I use the inboard half of each screen for MFD, the outboard half of each screen for PFD, with engine instrument full outboard on each side;
The Mini is a tight fit over there, and playing with it I don’t seem to gain much space. It moves the left screen over but the right one doesn’t really come back in.
I had also figured if the standby is in the center, if I’m down to that I won’t be crossing the cockpit all the time.
I’ll do what I can to move the right screen back over but it’s mainly there for the right-seater. I do have paper images taped to the panel and I’ll sit in the cockpit soon (once I figure out where the seat hinge pins wandered off to) to see what it looks like in physical space.
* Suggestion: try some layouts with the screens showing half PFD, half MFD is GRT supports that. There are really cool things you can do that way. I’ve found that the little inset screens are useful mostly for telling you when you need to blow them up to half screen
Pretty sure that’s an option. I don’t have the hardware in hand yet though. On Dad’s Skyview (he only has one screen) we generally fly a 40/40/20 split, with PFD on left, map in center, and EMS on right. It’s doable from the right seat, at least VFR, though it’s a pain if you’re trying to run the map and program the autopilot from there.
* Cross feed? Really?
I could call it “bus tie” if you’d like... (electrical is basically a Nuckolls Z-14 with an engine bus added... this switch connects the electrical buses at the contactors in case of an alternator failure)
* Minimize the size of the knob panel under the instrument panel. Knees will appreciate it!
Yeah, I want to shrink it (it’s part of why I ditched the quadrant idea) but not sure where to put some of the stuff that would move. I could make some functions electric vs. manual knobs, I guess... might be lighter, anyway?

General comments on right layout:
* Again, move the right screen in. Centering it is not that big a deal – it’s glass, so no parallax;
* Standby shouldn’t be atop the panel;
I’d figured since a D3 is portable it could just have a “dock” up there I could clip it into when necessary. I wanted to see what I could do if I didn’t have to find a home for a standby display on the panel itself (either because it was portable or I just didn’t have one at all)
* Flaps traditionally go to the right of the power instruments;
I see your point about standardization, but I’m liking the location where I can reach it without moving off the throttle or looking inside. But then, I haven’t flown an airplane with electric flaps in about 18 years, except for one ride in an RV-7 with a stick-mounted flap switch (admittedly, it was very convenient and I keep going back and forth about doing that). Dad’s -6 has manual flaps.

Come fly with me in the RV-9A this weekend in Savannah and you can try different screen arrangements. I’m a CFII, so you can fly either seat.
I really appreciate the offer, and I might well take you up on it... but it’ll have to be on a weekday (I’m still on weekend shift, until the schools open up) if that’s ok. I’ll warn you though, I’m pretty rusty and my last flight review was in 2016...
 
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