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Flap Motor fix with Pics

C-FAH Q

Well Known Member
So, once again I find my flap motor not wanting to go down, oh well, better than not going up after take off. I had cleaned the shaft of the motor before, but did not fully disasemble the unit to clean it out of grease.
So, out to the hanger I go to resolve this issue with hopefully a better result than the last time, it lasted 45 hours. First remove the flap assembly from the plane, hard to see in this pic, but there is quite abit of grease on the shaft. Some is good, but this was to much.

imagecdh.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06

Remove the two screws from the top of the motor.

imagewmh.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06

Gently pry off the motor cap

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By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06

pull off center body that has the magnets, see on the top of the motor where the brushes contact the shaft, all gummed up with oily goop.

imageglc.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06

remove two allen screws from bottom of housing and remove screw unit

imagezk.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06

the larger hole was full of grease, this is what works up into the motor to stop the brushes from working properly. Clean out the excess grease.

imageitu.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06

Clean off as much grease as you can, but be sure to leave some on the shaft that comes out of the housing and atttches to your flap weldment. also, there are tiny bearings at each end of the motor, dont put anything in them to remove the grease in them. Clean off the ends of the brushes and shaft where the brushes touch. I used a light touch with a scothbrite pad. Assemble the unit, putting a drop of loc-tite on the allen screws( was on them when removed) be careful not to bend the little springs that hold pressure on the brushes. Some have diferent ways to hold these in when reassembling, I just used my fingers, no big deal. Re install and test, works fine. Hopefully doing the full grease removal will last a long time.

Best part, it was ony an hour job, start to finish.

This was how I did this fix and in no way am an expert. This info is worth what you paid for it. Use it wisely. Your mileage may vary

And now for something completely different.

imagebgq.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06
 
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Thanks for the photo essay! Helpful indeed to see what you're getting into ahead of time.
 
Thanks for the photos Gary.

I am having mine act up on occasion lately. Need to clean it before it fails in a full down situation. Good post.
 
Nice One!

I agree with the others above. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to photograph this procedure and post it here. I have book marked it for future reference.

It is posts like this one that make this such a great site. Thanks Doug.
 
Thanks for the write-up

Well just serviced this area during our first conditional. Yep, greased that shaft up real good. Well at least now we know what to expect! Thanks for taking the time to snap and post the pics!
 
Where did the grease come from? the comutator is at the other end of the worm gear? nice write up
 
source

Where did the grease come from? the comutator is at the other end of the worm gear? nice write up

As best as I could figure out, because the motor hangs upside down, it must get forced up into the housing when the actuator arm retracts and forced into the motor and just bleed down from the screw gear area, and gets flung around and finds the brush area. So, not sure exactly, but its there.
 
Gear Box O-ring

Gary, did you happen to find the little O-ring that goes into the recess or counterbore in the gearbox? You can see this recess in your 6th picture down. I recently did this and was careful to re-insert the O-ring into this recess upon re-assembly. I think this O-ring is what is supposed to seal the grease and prevent it from getting slung out of the gearbox. I doubt if it does much in the way of preventing the grease from migrating through the motor bearing all the way to the commutator.

For what it's worth, I found no grease contamination in my motor, just the brush carbon tracks on the commutator that I cleaned up as you described. My flap motor operation has been flawless, I just did this cleaning as preventative maintenance during my last condition inspection. Just for background, Van's switched from the Motion System motors to the Pittman motors in 2002, and according to Van's newsletter about this problem, it was thought that the last of the Motion System motors were the culprits. I have one of these and mine appears to be fine; besides, the Pittman motors appear to be the exact same motor. I just think it was a change of ownership and not a change in the motor design. The blame has also been attributed to over-servicing the gearbox with grease in isolated instances. This grease contamination remains a mystery as far as I'm concerned. :confused:
 
Gary, did you happen to find the little O-ring that goes into the recess or counterbore in the gearbox? You can see this recess in your 6th picture down. I recently did this and was careful to re-insert the O-ring into this recess upon re-assembly. I think this O-ring is what is supposed to seal the grease and prevent it from getting slung out of the gearbox. I doubt if it does much in the way of preventing the grease from migrating through the motor bearing all the way to the commutator.

For what it's worth, I found no grease contamination in my motor, just the brush carbon tracks on the commutator that I cleaned up as you described. My flap motor operation has been flawless, I just did this cleaning as preventative maintenance during my last condition inspection. Just for background, Van's switched from the Motion System motors to the Pittman motors in 2002, and according to Van's newsletter about this problem, it was thought that the last of the Motion System motors were the culprits. I have one of these and mine appears to be fine; besides, the Pittman motors appear to be the exact same motor. I just think it was a change of ownership and not a change in the motor design. The blame has also been attributed to over-servicing the gearbox with grease in isolated instances. This grease contamination remains a mystery as far as I'm concerned. :confused:

Pat,
There was no o ring in mine at all. Also, I have the Pittman motor. The motor build date is 07-11-03...hmmmmm
imagewjp.jpg

By grassy2040 at 2012-02-06
 
Usher's Take on the Actuator

Last week I spoke with Dean Trump, shop manager, Usher Industries. They have been making the flap actuator for upwards of 8 years. Van's asked them to replicate as identically as possible the Motion Industries product, which they did. The motor is unchange as far as specification; maybe the label and a few internal details are altered - like the "O" ring mentioned above.

Usher is convinced excess grease leads to contamination that gums the brushes/commutator. He suggested pulling the motor and mopping up as much grease as possible, leaving just a thin film on the gearing. As to how it migrates...?

I ordered a new motor/worm unit, $125, and a brush set, $25, (which includes the frame with brushes and a cool bushing to help slide the assembly onto the commutator). These are going on the shelf as spares to rapidly cure an AOG, which unfortunately seems to be a sore spot with RVs.

My personal take is that high starting loads on the motor cause a current flow exceeding specifications, arcs, and builds up conductive dust in the commutator gaps. That's, what I saw last time my flap motor failed to move. Grease, if it's there, simply helps gum up the works. That these units operate so small a percentage of flight hours calculates to a high failure rate, something the FAA would be all over if on certified ships.

John Siebold
 
Gary, very interesting... I wonder if this is the cause of the grease contamination then. Here's a photo of my motor and as you can see, the motor p/n has the same first four digits: 9234. If you go to the Pittman web site (www.ametektip.com), you can see that the rest of the numbers in the p/n are for voltage and other variables. Also, note that the price for your motor on Click Automation (www.clickautomation.com) is $89.10 US.

07514.jpg


Also, I note that Van's sells the replacement flap motor for $380. Now, I'm sure part of that difference is the worm gear addition to the shaft of the motor, and possibly the actuator being part of the package, not sure. My obvious thought is that you might be able to transfer the worm gear from the old motor to the replacement. Not sure if anyone has tried that or not.

It would be really interesting to see if addition of the O-ring mitigated your contamination issue, if it was never there in the first place. In Van's article titled "Flaky Flap Motors", they make mention of this gearbox O-ring with a caution to "Be careful not to disturb the tiny O-ring in the recess of the gearbox." When I took mine apart, it popped right out and I had to reset it into the recess. Could yours be on your shop floor somewhere?

The mystery continues...:eek:
 
Same Deal

I had the same problem. cleaned a number of times. I ordered a new motor with the gear attached to keep on the shelf. That did not last long. the next time it quit, I took the new one off the shelf. It was full of grease, brand new. I disassembled it and clean it really good, then replace the original one with it. So far it has not had another problem, and it has been on for a while.
 
Van's sells the complete actuator, not parts, like the motor with worm.

Don't even think about transferring the worm. Per UI it requires special fixturing and force; buying just the motor (from another supplier) is futile.

What bothers me about the spare motor from UI is that its worm is gobbed with grease. Why do they do this when they know excess grease is a problem. The worm acts like a gear pump with enough between it and the motor case.

John Siebold
 
Last edited:
Whole Assembly

Also, I note that Van's sells the replacement flap motor for $380. Now, I'm sure part of that difference is the worm gear addition to the shaft of the motor, and possibly the actuator being part of the package, not sure. My obvious thought is that you might be able to transfer the worm gear from the old motor to the replacement. Not sure if anyone has tried that or not.
....

I just got the new $380 one. It is the whole package all the way to the ball joint on the end of the actuator. It is not just a motor.
 
What bothers me about the spare motor from UI is that its worm is gobbed with grease. Why do they do this when they know excess grease is a problem. The worm acts like a gear pump with enough between it and the motor case.

John Siebold

Maybe the grease is intended just for storage, if so, they ought to add a note to the motor to remove before installation.

You mentioned you got just the motor/worm for $125, was that from UI? If so, that, along with the brush assembly, sounds like the best way to go for a backup.
 
A spare replacement

....

You mentioned you got just the motor/worm for $125, was that from UI? If so, that, along with the brush assembly, sounds like the best way to go for a backup.

Another option is to buy my never used, never even powered up, flap motor assembly for $100...:) SOLD

flap-motor-2.jpg


flap-motor-1.jpg


It would be completely airworthy except for the factory incorrect cross-drilling at the upper mount.

flap-motor-3.jpg


So you get an unused motor as well as spare parts for the rest of the assembly - I'll even pay shipping.

Note, if you followed the RV-6 plans exactly the new motor assembly will have some fit issues due to the larger machined upper gear housing.
 
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Flap motor intermittant

I've dug up this old thread because my flap motor will occasionally not run. I've traced the probelem to the motor but do not understand how to fix. There's no grease in the area where the brushes are. The brushes look fine. The motor sits at the top of the drive assembly so I don't understand how grease is affecting the brushes. Does excess grease at the other end affect anything?

I've removed and clean the communatator. The problem re-occured after about a dozen flight hours. Now happening more regular. A swift Fonzerelly smack on the flap housing gots things going today but while that may have been the answer in the 50's, I need a better solution. The pictures in the beginning of this thread do not show. Can someone explain what's going on and how to fix?

Bevan
 
Bumping this old thread back up for the same reasons that the previous poster did.

Anyone have an idea of how to look at the pics in the original post?

My flaps locked up yesterday on a cold flight home and I'm wondering if that plus the grease caused the problem.

Worked ok after spending the night in the hangar. ...still, I'm ready to tear into it to sort things out permanently.

Thanks,

Rob S.
 
Rob, were you able to locate the pictures in the original post? I am also in need of servicing the flap motor and would sure benefit from seeing the pictures.

Mike M.
 
Flap motor failure

Today my flap motor intermittently failed. Plane completed 2010 so it's been in service 7 yrs, 470 hrs. The motor would run the flaps down, but upward was very irrattic. Careful listening of the motor running in the hanger, the upward direction sounded like faint snapping/crackling, like electrical arcing.
Took the motor apart, no obvious reason of failure, inside looked clean, but armature looked worn and discolored.
Just ordered replacement unit from Van's... $460! Ouch!
 
Usher

Today my flap motor intermittently failed. Plane completed 2010 so it's been in service 7 yrs, 470 hrs. The motor would run the flaps down, but upward was very irrattic. Careful listening of the motor running in the hanger, the upward direction sounded like faint snapping/crackling, like electrical arcing.
Took the motor apart, no obvious reason of failure, inside looked clean, but armature looked worn and discolored.
Just ordered replacement unit from Van's... $460! Ouch!

You can order just the motor (with the worm gear installed) directly from Usher for quite a bit less than the whole actuator mechanism costs from Van's.

Skylor
RV-8
 
Motor still available

Just to continue this thread. I've been having problems with my flap motor. I've cleaned it several times, but the time to recleaning seems to be getting shorter. So I just talked to Brad at Usher (503-992-0015) and I should have a new motor on the way. Price is still $125.00 plus shipping. Brad claims it is exactly the same motor ("there is only one"), so it should screw right on.

Apparently this is a fairly common problem. I told him I had an "RV aircraft with a bad flap motor" and he knew exactly what I needed!

Next time my current motor fails, I'm putting the new one in. Until then it goes in the spare parts bag.
 
So, third time for grease contamination failure for me, and I am getting annoyed with it since it always happens at the most inopportune time!!! I too was able to apply the Fonzerelli thump for one or two operations of the flaps and then nothing. I am going to disassemble the cylinder this time and dump some (at least) of the grease from the dumb thing. I have always found the commutator/brushes contaminated with grease, and cleaning lasts about a year for me. Whoever designed that motor to slope down did not do us any favors. I have one O-Ring (about 3/8" diameter on the motor housing around the shaft) but that doesn't seem to do much. Is there a really small O-Ring that goes on the shaft itself? I don't see one on mine. Has anyone solved the problem of how to view the pictures in the 1st post in this thread? I get to something called ImageShack when I click on the link (something like Grassy2040) and I get to that ImageShack website but no pictures fill the little boxes. Long post but I hate this system and am about to go to manual if I can't get a resolution to this problem.

I tried to attach a photo to this post but can't figure out how. It asks for a URL address when I click on the Insert Photo Icon, and the photo is not on a URL. It is in a folder on my computer!! Hate computers!!
 
Has anyone solved the problem of how to view the pictures in the 1st post in this thread?

I just went through the motor cleaning procedure again myself. I have to do it about once a year or so. I have posted below what I believe are the pictures from the original thread. Not sure about the order.

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I just went through the motor cleaning procedure again myself. I have to do it about once a year or so. I have posted below what I believe are the pictures from the original thread. Not sure about the order.

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Same Here.... Cannot view pics...
 
I ordered a new motor/worm unit, $125, and a brush set, $25, (which includes the frame with brushes and a cool bushing to help slide the assembly.

I ordered a new motor from Usher today with a pressed on worm gear for $125, price has not changed. Also ordered a brush set for $25. My wiring fatigued at the edge of the motor and broke losing power. Sure beats paying $460 for a new assembly from Van’s...

https://flic.kr/p/2iDhBHR
 
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This post is to emphasize an aspect of motor cleaning that has been mentioned but possibly has receded from notice vs the grease issue.

After 800 ish hrs, my flap motor stopped a couple of times. The first time it restarted due to me jiggling it about during a partial but far from complete disassembly. I reassembled the system, ordered a new motor from Usher and went on with life. The motor arrived. About a dozen hrs after the first instance, the motor quit again. I did a full disassembly and inspection this time.

Grease was NOT an issue. There was a very little grease inside the motor. However, the separations between the commutator poles were completely filled with black stuff that I assumed was conductive carbon effectively shorting the multiple poles together. I cleaned (scraped) these grooves and reassembled the motor. Tested good. I decided to learn if this was the issue rather than install the new motor. The old motor has worked since then. About 50 hrs so far.

Hope this helps. With my luck, the motor will quit on the way home Fri now that I posted this. :rolleyes:
 
Back in the days of Brushed motors in RC it was common practice to put the armature on a tiny lathe and clean up the commutator with a couple passes. Give it a good spray cleaning and it was as good as new for the next race. We used to go through motor brushes like they were candy.
 
So we have experienced intermittent flap issues for a couple of years. Was always intermittent and we thought it was the switch.

It was not the switch. The motor was full of grease. When we pulled the motor from the gearbox it was evident that the o’ring was the issue and allowing grease to “drain” from the gear box into the motor casing.

Called Usher and they said they no longer sell the motor or the worm gear. I think they still make them but only sell to ACS and Van’s. I called ACS and I could see the blank stare through the phone. Van’s is closed today due to the fires.

We cleaned ours, put it back together and ran the motor. Now we need a new o’ring. We would like to acquire a new motor/worm gear but are not sure where we can get one.

This is not an isolated issue.
 
This is what will be replacing mine at the first hiccup.
 

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I think this is the Pat Hatch mod. It requires a new diagonal mount piece. Less costly than the original.
 
I replaced the original flap motor in my RV-10 last year with the Usher motor ($125) after I had intermittent retraction of the flap. Worked great for about 30 hours ad now I have intermittent extension of the flaps. I also have the FPS system on it and checked to make sure everything seems to work fine. It seems that if I slow down to 75kt then the flap will deploy. Always retract ok. I cannot replicate this on the ground with hand loads on the flap resisting extension.

Any ideas? I heard that people were having issues with the Usher motors too.

Thanks for any suggestion!
 
Hi, another RVator with flap problems here. RV-6, Pittman motor. I'm a true novice, so when the flaps didn't move on preflight the only courses of action I could think of were to check the fuse (good shape) and then pull the motor and look for something obviously wrong. After opening it up I realized I had no clue what I was actually looking at. I've attached pictures to this post. Aside from cleaning it out (which it does seem to need) can anyone else recognize any issues or provide more ways to troubleshoot? Any idea what those washers go to? When I opened the unit they were stuck to magnet sidewall. I'm trying to find some kind of manual for the motor, with no luck. I forgot my DMM, but I'll be checking that the motor is actually getting juice, too.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Another data point

I know this is an old thread, but I'm just getting back to building after a long hiatus. I wanted to measure the current through the flap motor and it wouldn't run. Before reading anything online (my bad) I removed the motor from the actuator and tried it again. Still nothing. Disassembled the motor, cleaned, re-lubed and reassembled. Worked fine. Put it back on the actuator, and...nothing. It seems the grease in the actuator had magically turned to Loctite. I'm now trying to remove the Locgrease. For the slow speed and infrequent use the actuator gets, it seems the grease is doing more harm than good.

-T.
 
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