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New prop - back to Phase 1? (if only partial)

Saville

Well Known Member
Getting a new prop installed on the -8.

I think I read somewhere that this puts the plane back into a partial phase 1 - true?

Do you need an FSDO signoff for this?

Thanks
 
Getting a new prop installed on the -8.
I think I read somewhere that this puts the plane back into a partial phase 1 - true?
Do you need an FSDO signoff for this?
Thanks

If it is a different diameter and/or pitch, a change of construction, wood/composite/metal, or any other change that will affect flight characteristics you will need to return to phase I for at least 5 hrs. If you are changing F/P to or from a controllable pitch, then you need to submit new 8130-6.
 
If it is a different diameter and/or pitch, a change of construction, wood/composite/metal, or any other change that will affect flight characteristics you will need to return to phase I for at least 5 hrs. If you are changing F/P to or from a controllable pitch, then you need to submit new 8130-6.

Swapping one Hartzell metal CS 72" prop for a new Hartzell metal CS 72" prop.

The new one is a blended airfoil
 
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Swapping one Hartzell metal CS 72" prop for a new Hartzell metal CS 72" prop.
The new one is a blended airfoil

Appropriate post maintenance test flight should be accomplished, but a return to phase I is not required.
 
Composite to aluminum with diameter change?

How about swapping from a 72" composite CS prop to a 74" aluminum CS prop? Does that require a letter to the FSDO?
 
How about swapping from a 72" composite CS prop to a 74" aluminum CS prop? Does that require a letter to the FSDO?

Depends on you Operating Limitations. They have changed several times over the years. Latest revision says that you need concurrence for the flight test aera.

This change will change W&B, so a new Phase I is required.

Read your op lims. Procedure should be there.
 
If it is a different diameter and/or pitch, a change of construction, wood/composite/metal, or any other change that will affect flight characteristics you will need to return to phase I for at least 5 hrs. If you are changing F/P to or from a controllable pitch, then you need to submit new 8130-6.

I am contemplating a F/P to C/S conversion. I see from your post that I will need a new Airworthiness. Is this a situation in which a DAR can handle the paperwork, instead of involving the FSDO? I m reading in other threads how the FSDO can really mess up experimental aircraft paperwork, and I'd like to avoid as many headaches as possible.
 
I am contemplating a F/P to C/S conversion. I see from your post that I will need a new Airworthiness. Is this a situation in which a DAR can handle the paperwork, instead of involving the FSDO? I m reading in other threads how the FSDO can really mess up experimental aircraft paperwork, and I'd like to avoid as many headaches as possible.

If there is a document that spells these requirements out, please provide a pointer/link. The inconsistent answers I receive from different authorities is frustrating.
 
If there is a document that spells these requirements out, please provide a pointer/link. The inconsistent answers I receive from different authorities is frustrating.

It's in your operating limitations. Current wording is:

After incorporating a major change as described in § 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with § 91.319(b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircraft owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area. If the major change includes installing a different type of engine (reciprocating to turbine) or a change of a fixed-pitch from or to a controllable propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised FAA Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft’s file in the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch, AFS-750. All operations must be conducted under day visual flight rules (VFR) conditions over a sparsely populated area in compliance with § 91.305. The aircraft must remain in flight test for a minimum of 5 hours. The FSDO may require addition time (more than 5 hours) depending on the extent of the modification. Persons nonessential to the flight must not be carried. The aircraft owner must make an aircraft maintenance record entry describing the change before the test flight. Following satisfactory completion of the required number of flight hours in the flight test area, the pilot must certify in the records that the aircraft has been shown to comply with § 91.319(b). Compliance with § 91.319(b) must be recorded in the maintenance records with the following, or a similarly worded statement: “I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features, and is safe for operation.” (23)
 
Just need to check your Op Lims. Should be a section there about making a “major change”. FAR 14CFR 21.93a spells out what constitutes a major change, and it is referred to in my Operations Limitations. I changed my aluminum Sensenich prop for a ground adjustable Sensenich carbon fiber prop. What made this a major change for me wasn’t the adjustability of the prop, it was the weight change. I lost 20 lbs off the nose. My FSDO determined that was major. They issued me a letter of authorization giving me a 5 hour Phase 1, within a geographical area around my home airport. Changing pitch on the ground (still fixed pitch) didn’t constitute major change. If it did, you would have to enter phase 1 every time you changed your cruise pitch setting to a climb pitch, or vice versa. Some people do that. Switching from fixed to CS might involve a couple major changes - weight, and then obviously operational major change.

After phase 1 completion you need to make a logbook entry, and this is also spelled out, verbatim, in your Op Lims, at least it is in mine. This was really a simple process. All it took was a phone call. I had my LOA the next day. Before I flew I re-weighed the airplane. Since mine involved a W&B change, my flight testing was focused on phases of flight that would be affected by this seemingly dramatic change - stability, primarily in pitch, stall characteristics in different loading configurations, takeoff, landing, climb, and glide changes. Turns out it wasn’t that dramatic of a change. My CG moved aft about .5”.
 
Boy I’m a slow poster. Mel beat me to it. Most of what Mel posted, in blue above, is in my Operations Limitations. That’s what I went by. Thanks Mel.
 
Thanks Mel. Very helpful. Is this the correct interpretation?

1) For a "Major Change" - notify the FSDO of the change and put the plane back into phase 1 for an unspecified amount of time.
2) If the "Major Change" includes a change in engine *type* or converting from a FP to CS prop, notify the FSDO and fill out a new form 8130-6. Back to phase 1 for a minimum of 5 hours.
3) Minor changes don't require notifying the FSDO or a form 8130-6. A “minor change” is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are “major changes.” (quoting from CFR 21.93).

"Appreciable effect" would appear quite subjective.

So getting back to my practical application at hand:

1) Changing from a FP to CS prop. Action: Very clear. Notify FSDO and complete form 8130-6. Back to phase 1 for a min of 5 hours.
2) Changing engine in a flying experimental RV from a certified O-360 to experimental IO-360 Action: As long as there is no appreciable effect... there is no need for a new phase 1 or form 8130-6.

Is that correct?

Brian
 
Thanks Mel. Very helpful. Is this the correct interpretation?
1) For a "Major Change" - notify the FSDO of the change and put the plane back into phase 1 for an unspecified amount of time.
2) If the "Major Change" includes a change in engine *type* or converting from a FP to CS prop, notify the FSDO and fill out a new form 8130-6. Back to phase 1 for a minimum of 5 hours.
3) Minor changes don't require notifying the FSDO or a form 8130-6. A “minor change” is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are “major changes.” (quoting from CFR 21.93).
"Appreciable effect" would appear quite subjective.
So getting back to my practical application at hand:
1) Changing from a FP to CS prop. Action: Very clear. Notify FSDO and complete form 8130-6. Back to phase 1 for a min of 5 hours.
2) Changing engine in a flying experimental RV from a certified O-360 to experimental IO-360 Action: As long as there is no appreciable effect... there is no need for a new phase 1 or form 8130-6.
Is that correct?
Brian

5 hour minimum applies to all major changes.
 
5 hour minimum applies to all major changes.

Thanks for clarifying, Mel.

In your opinion is a change from a certified O-360 to an experimental IO-360 a major change? It doesn't seem so to me based on the definition in 21.93 but the local DAR I discussed this with seems to think so.
 
Thanks for clarifying, Mel.

In your opinion is a change from a certified O-360 to an experimental IO-360 a major change? It doesn't seem so to me based on the definition in 21.93 but the local DAR I discussed this with seems to think so.

I would not consider this a major change.
 
Major/minor

Read the entire thread and went through a search, but I still need to "ask Mel".

In January 2021 I am scheduled to take my RV8 to Spartanburg, SC to have it converted by AFP from carb to FI, plus add a Raven inverted oil system.

Major/minor? Since I live in Leesburg, VA and a different FSDO controls the Spartanburg area, if a FSDO notification and Phase I test area is necessary, which FSDO do I contact? Would test area (if needed) be in SC since it is 2 hour flight back to VA?
 
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