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Honda 1.8L on RV6A Now Flying!

installed fuel system

More progress!

I have installed the dual fuel pump, dual filter, check valve fuel system on my plane and it worked perfect. I posted a picture of it a while back.

I used 3/8 copper/nickel hard line instead of braided rubber and instead of aluminum because it is not subject to fire like braided hose, and it is about 5 times stronger than aluminum only a fraction of weight more, and it is inexpensive and very easy to work with.

Since I have the radiator under the belly of the plane that is enclosed in a custom aluminum sheet duct, it made for a perfect solution to hide the fuel system. I know it will be a compromise to the flow of air in to the radiator because it hangs down in front of the radiator, (I know Ross wont like the sight of that! Since his is so skillfully streamlined - Sorry Ross) but I am also confident the radiator and ducting will still provide all the cooling I need. I suspect I may lose 3-4 MPH on the top end from this but I never intended on building a racer.

The other benefit is that I do not have any fuel fittings in the cabin of the plane. To me, that is a plus. It will also make it easy to service as I used an6 fittings in strategic places to make changing the fuel filters easy.

I did a static fuel flow test using different combinations of one tank and one pump to both tanks with both pumps. One the least flow was with the back up pump using only one tank still produced 30 gph. Both tanks and both pumps flowed about 70 gph. I am using dual wasbro GSL393 pumps.

The bad news is that I am having to pull the engine to take off the nose gear to get it modified at the machine shop to comply with the Servie Bulletin. What a pain! but...gotta do it.

Next I am going to start working on a shroud for the intercooler.

Charlie
 
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Venting the crankcase and valve cover space

One important task when turbocharging an engine is to recognize the potential that pressure may develop in the crankcase if measures are not taken to vent the crankcase beyond what is normally accomplished by the PCV.

When you add turbocharging you add positive pressure to the intake manifold, which by its very nature eliminates vacuum from the intake, which prevents the PCV from being able to vent the gases in the crankcase.

One solution to consider is to add a line from the crankcase to an oil catch can. This is often done in lieu of the PCV. The reason for this is that in order for the PCV to work effectively, it needs vacuum.

Here is a pic of a push-to-connect nylon line where the PCV used to be that is connected to an oil catch can.

oFN.jpg


The same is true for the valve cover, it needs to be able to vent pressure and the best way is to connect a line to a catch can as well. Here is a pic of a push-to-connect with a nylon line on it as well.

oFk.jpg


[Reference to using smaller line removed ....]

Charlie
 
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If these are the only crankcase vent lines, I'd suggest upping the size considerably. Minimum I'd run on a turbo engine would be a single 1/2" ID.

If you've ever seen a turbo engine on the dyno at full chat, you'd see a very high rate of flow from here which can build up a lot of crankcase pressure quickly.
 
Crank vent lines

Ross

I know some high boost guys need big lines. I'm only at 5 lbs boost. It would be interesting to see if there was still pressure using a 1/4" at 5lbs. Now my curiosity may cause me to dig out a low pressure ga...and put it to use.

Good thought!

P.s. I know there can be quite a difference between engines. Some will have much more blow-by than others.

Thanks.

Charlie.
 
crankcase pressure

I was able to get a MAP pressure gauge connected to the 1/4" line off of the crankcase and valve cover. I did a bench test on the gauge first just to make sure it was reasonably accurate.

I am fortunate that this engine did not create any appreciable pressure at 5 lbs of boost with the 1/4" vent lines. If it did, it was less than what I could see on the MAP gauge I was using, probably 1 lb or less.

This is certainly not to suggest that a 1/4" line will be enough for other engines with turbos. It would be wise for anyone with a turbo set up to test their system to make sure they have adequate venting. There are many folks who use larger lines to vent their crankcases and valve covers.

Charlie
 
Good to test and have some numbers. I'd say you have very good ring sealing on your engine. Continue on!

Yes, but what happens when engine begins to wear and crankcase pressure climbs? Would be best to install larger line now and not have problem future...
 
Yes, but what happens when engine begins to wear and crankcase pressure climbs? Would be best to install larger line now and not have problem future...

I thought the same thing. Also if you damage a piston which can be common with cast ones, you can lose all the oil quickly out the dipstick tube which could be an issue getting it down safely with partial power.
 
I am fortunate that this engine did not create any appreciable pressure at 5 lbs of boost with the 1/4" vent lines. If it did, it was less than what I could see on the MAP gauge I was using, probably 1 lb or less.

Case pressure is typically measured in units much smaller than PSI. For example, the Lycoming case pressure limit is something like 4~5 inches of water. One (1) psi is 27.67 inches H2O. Perhaps a re-test with a manometer? I'd expect a healthy Honda to exhibit less blowby than a Lycoming, so an accurate baseline captured now may be useful as a diagnostic tool later.
 
Crankcase pressure

Dan,

Good point. I have read the high boost guys with high end dynos actually measure SCFM. Ultimately though when it comes to problem I think it is fair to say that PSI is what will cause things like seals and gaskets to leak and worse fail. I've seen quite a few charts that show the SCFM and PSI per hose diameter unfortunately most charts are geared towards high pressure. I have not found one with good specs on lower pressre (i.e. 0.5 - 3.0 psi) as it relates to say 0.125" - 0.50" hose size.) If you find one please post. Same with an easy way to measure, say, 0.2" to 2.0" scfm. Other than to extapolate the SCFM with known credible PSI and Hose I.D. numbers.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the manometer is a good idea. I think I detected some suction on low RPM. So the current home man manometer will have to be redesigned. And dang, allowing for suction and up to say 30In is one tall manometer! I just need more time to do all of this.

Aside from this, I have to admit pushing this set up in to boost is on the edge. Last time I crept up to 4500 rpm at 40" MAP I actually felt it starting to lift and get really light on the right gear. Needless to say I quickly reduced the power. Without wings on the fuse, it is just not stable enough in the roll axis to push it very hard. So higher MAP crank case pressure testing may have to wait until the wings are on it.

Thanks.

Charlie.
 
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Digital low pressure gauge

I found this digital low pressure gauge. I bench tested it and it seems to read down to 0.30 psi and increases on tenths of PSI. It even quickly measure pressure from simply blowing in it. (even though it states it is 0.5 psi resolution. Cheap too readily available on Amazon or Ebay.

Dan's idea of a manometer is still a very good choice, this is a simple option as well.

oJi.jpg


charlie
 
Update trim relay boards

All is well with the Honda Project. The engine is running great and I am working on a few aspects of the project that are not directly tied to the Honda engine itself. None the less I thought I would provide an update.

I am working on the electrical system and that includes the stick grip switches. I purchased the infinity Aerospace grips a long time ago and at this point I needed relays for Elevator, Aileron and flaps.

I found a diagram that Bob Nucklos on the Infinity website that shows the components necessary to build your own relay deck. I thought it would be fun and an inexpensive project.

So I created my own PCB using a free tool called EasyEDA and then had the blank PCB built and added the components myself.

Here is a picture of the Trim Relay boards I built.
oJ1.jpg


It is an ingenious system that allow the trim and flap motors to reverse direction by simply grounding two wires off the grip switch.

Here is the diagram in a simplified view.

oJ8.jpg


I am willing to sell these for a modest cost if you are interested PM me.

Charlie
 
Charlie -

Are the trim motors adjustable for speed? I converted my RV-12 to Ray Allen with two-speed trim. Very slow speed in cruise and fast trim in slow flight in the pattern. Speed is selectable with toggle switch. Makes airplane a pleasure to fly...

 
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cool

Fun to see projects like this. Hope it works out well for you. You are not to far away from me. Near Battle Ground.

Cheers!
 
Charlie -

Are the trim motors adjustable for speed? I converted my RV-12 to Ray Allen with two-speed trim. Very slow speed in cruise and fast trim in slow flight in the pattern. Speed is selectable with toggle switch. Makes airplane a pleasure to fly...


Jim,

I had not thought of that. Good idea. So is your "slow" equal to RA stock or is the fast setting equal to stock?

Charlie
 
Jim,

I had not thought of that. Good idea. So is your "slow" equal to RA stock or is the fast setting equal to stock?

Charlie

Charlie, I do the same on my 7 and fast is full speed with the slow being set by a ray allen trim pot. I tested for a few months until I liked the speed then hid, ahh, errr . . . . relocated it behind the panel
 
Charlie, I do the same on my 7 and fast is full speed with the slow being set by a ray allen trim pot. I tested for a few months until I liked the speed then hid, ahh, errr . . . . relocated it behind the panel

Good to know and sounds real simple...I like that.

Charlie
 
Charlie, I do the same on my 7 and fast is full speed with the slow being set by a ray allen trim pot. I tested for a few months until I liked the speed then hid, ahh, errr . . . . relocated it behind the panel

Exactly... My trim pot is located behind the panel after I made final settings. Slow is really slow for cruise. RV-12 guys that fly my plane like the ability to easily set pitch trim at cruise speeds without overshooting. Trim speed for slow flight in the pattern is quite fast. Works very nice and feels natural as the plane slows down. Again - no overshooting. A side benefit is the ability to re-trim quickly in event of a missed approach and go-around.

Another thought - I don't know if you would use two speeds for each of the three axis (I suspect you would). In that case, use a single toggle switch to operate a relay with three sets of contacts - one for each axis.
 
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trim relays

I can see where a slow mode would really be helpful esp for pitch. Ill probably wait till I am flying to get some sort of idea where I would want to end up with the slow speed.

Charlie
 
intercooler shroud

I had a chance to build up a simple shroud for my intercooler. Here is a pic of it.

oJ5.jpg


Here is how it looked in the pattern stage. It is 0.25" aluminum. I actually like the 0.025 aluminum sheet found in the aviation section at Lowes for pieces like this. I find it is easier to bend that 2024-T3. The next picture shows it on my DIY wooden sheet metal brake I made out of old hard wood maple doors and a hardware hinge. Works real good. I do find it helps to duct tape the piece in place. Keeps it from creeping while in the clamps. With metal this thin you can simply hold the metal or wooden brake by hand while it is being bent.

oJF.jpg


Here it is attached to the intercooler.

oJJ.jpg


The only down side to this set up is it did not allow for a nice outlet that is plumbed to a negative pressure area. While this would be ideal, I am going to wait and see how well it works as is. I have seen very nice temp drops with the intercooler on the test stand with no shroud at all, so I think my IAT (inlet air temps) will be reduced at least as well as what I saw on the test stand (60*F-80*F) and probably much better, and if that happens this will be more than enough to get me where I want my IAT to be. Given that very small amount of boost I plan to use <7lbs This should do just find.

Charlie
 
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update

Update.

I have been fairly engrossed in working on the instrument panel, which is not directly tied to the Honda installation so I have not posted much.

I also had sent back the PSRU gearbox back to Viking Aircraft Engines at their request to install a new (improved) bearing, which they did at no expense to me (other than shipping to them).

I ran the engine to day for about 30 minutes checking airtemps, gearbox temps, coolant temps and pressure, voltage etx. All ran really well. I especially like the new larger (72") 3 bladed warp drive prop. I could not be happier with the set up at this point.

I will be spending at least another month on the panel and other more mundane things like brakes system, pitot systems etc.

So while I may not be posting much, you can be assured that I am marching full speed ahead in the back ground. While I hate to even try to pinpoint a "done" date (as many of those have come and gone) I do hope to get there before summer. We shall see.

As always, feel free to ask questions or add (friendly) comments.

P.S. I have some questions on wiring up the flightcom 403mc intercom and my radio which is an ICOM IC-A200. I wont post them on this thread but if anyone is knowledgeable about the wiring of these that I could run a few questions by you please PM me if you have time.

Charlie

Charlie
 
Update

I thought I would let folks know that things are progressing well. They are just not too exciting at this point.

* disclaimer - this post is not directly related to the engine project so if you are only interested in the Honda - you are welcome to stop reading.

I did get my radio stack wiring done. This was something I started, literally, a decade ago. My stack includes COMM: Icom A200. Transponder: GTX320a, Intercom: Flightcom 403MC: a stereo and a 2 meter ham radio.

The good news is that the GTX320A is going to be compatible with the EchoUAT that I am about ready to purchase for my ADSB out obligation.

Gosh, it would be nice if companies used the same terms for the same wire! Some call the secondary line of a mic a "return" while others call it "mic Lo". UGH!'

Now that it is done. (Al be it still on my bench). I am very happy with the set up. I am impressed with the Flightcom 403MC. It small, and inexpensive, works great and had the Pilot Isolate and "All" switch. It is not stereo, which would be nice, but with all the engine, wind, noise I really do not see the need for it. I will rarely listen to it. ALSO, I learned a real neat trick to combine Stereo in to a mono circuit by only having to add a 500-100 ohm resistor on each channel to make it work. No need to spend lots of money for magic boxes to get this done. I have to fade it L or R to get the sound but I am quite impressed with the quality of the music.

I'll be pulling the panel out of the plane to install the stack and I probably will finish up the Pitot system while I am in there. I'll do the brake lines while I am there too.

As always, questions, comments, suggestions, always welcome.

Charlie
 
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Engine run up without prop

I took a break from the work on the instrument panel to run the engine for a bit. It ran perfectly. It did heat up real fast though without the prop blowing air across the non-shrouded belly radiator. I was suprised how much the prop air actually helped the radiator cool.

Here is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0X2KGnHFI

Also, I was able to knock out the fuel tank vent lines in the cabin as well as the Brake lines.

I also created a tunnel in the center section of the floor for wires to run aft, like antenna coax, flap motor, aileron trim wires, etc.

The next big hurdle will be getting the wings on to test for incidence and sweep as well as final rigging of all control surfaces.

I took the rudder pedal assembly out while working on the brake lines and fuel vent lines. What a PAIN that was. If those were one mm longer I would not have been able to remove them. Can't wait to get those back in. But it makes sense to leave them out while more panel work is needed: The trim wires, fuel gauge wires, etc.

Thanks to all who have patience while this project moves along. NO ONE wants to see this done and fly more than me.

Good flying to all.

Charlie
 
I drive a fit. It's my second one. First had 300,000 km (180,0000 miles) on it and is now with my son. Runs perfectly. Never had an issue with the engine. I hope it runs well for you and is reliable.
 
Man if my lycon had VTEC I would be set! Put Ktune hondata on it and let's go beats some v8's. How I miss my ricer days. :)
 
I drive a fit. It's my second one. First had 300,000km (180,0000 miles) on it and is now with my son. Runs perfectly. Never had an issue with the engine. I hope it runs well for you and is reliable.

There is little debate that the Honda engines have a great reputation. As with most "alternative" engines the weak link is usually the gearbox, then the cooling system. But typically if there is a failure the "auto" engine usually takes the blame.

The project has been a blast so far. No project like this, including mine, has not had some setbacks, but right now, I am very happy and look forward to getting it flying.

Anyway, thanks for the post.

Charlie
 
It was posted a while ago but is it a good idea to make that oil cooler out of such soft aluminum?

It is an intercooler not an oilcooler. (Hope I did not say "oilcooler"on the vid.)
It just cools the air from the turbo on its way to the engine.

But....yes, it would be too light for an oilcooler...

Thanks for posting.

Charlie
 
Man if my lycon had VTEC I would be set! Put Ktune hondata on it and let's go beats some v8's. How I miss my ricer days. :)

The engine I am using is the R18 nothing like the "typeR" engines, but it does quite well at the RPM and Mild boost I am using. Most of the super high performance we see in the new engines get all that super power at real high RPM $6k+) that is (IMHO) not all that applicable for aircraft flying. When you see the power they produce at more realistic ranges like 4K-5K RPM they start to look real similar - given the same displacement and same boost........

(But I would not pass up on a free K20C1 for my project!!!!).

You mentioned Ktuner. I am using Simple Digital Systems EM4. (SDSEFI.com) It has control over ignition and injection timing and is very user friendly. I believe it is absolutely one of the most important components with this project. I have never used KTuner, but this SDS is so simple I don't think I could have had the success I have ad so far without it. One super feature is that it has a mixture knob. Which for an airplane in flight, it is far more user friendly than trying to change a fuel map on a laptop while flying.

Charlie
 
fuse on stand for wing fit

Things are progressing well.

It was time for me to fit and rig the wings. I have had them on the Fuse before but not to set the incidence, sweep and install most of the bolts for a true test fit. (as you can see in my avatar....

To do this you have to set the plane up on a stand without the main wheels. This is because the main wheel gear leg on a "-A" are attached directly to the wingspar.

Here is my fuse on the stand ready for the wing fit, which I hope will be Saturday.

oqL.jpg


Charlie
 
Hope everything is progressing well. I suspect you are sheltering-in-place and working steadily on project. Stay safe. I keep checking for updates...
 
Update control rigging etc

Jim, et all,

Yes, things are going well. I am burning the midnight oil lately on non-engine related build tasks. Like, rigging all the controls, finishing all the panel wiring, pitot system, brake systems, etc. Sort of the not-so-fun-stuff for me. But it is going well.

Here is a pic of me setting the wing incidence. After reading the manual I sought out to do things with various priorities in mind. 1) Watching for proper edge distance on drilling rear spar tabs. 2) Making sure the wings were true to each other. 3) being true to the longerons. Using a digital scale with many reference checks I was very happy to get the wings at 0.00 degrees to each other and within 0.44 degrees true to the longerons. The edge distance was no issue at all.

I also was very happy setting the wing sweep. The manual says withing 1/2" is allowed. I dropped the 4 plumb lines off the forward edge of the wings per plans and shot a laser across them. The laser hit all four lines. Probably about 1/8" tolerance at the end of the light. Good by me esp knowing this is a slow build before all the wonderful pre-punched holes.

Here are some pics.

oqb.jpg


Here is the laser shot:

oqt.jpg


I have had a terrible time in the past 3 months finding a hangar to rent in SW Washington. I did find one that was $650 a month plus utilities. Nice, but I really hope I don't have to rent that one!

I am on Mike Seagers schedule in May for transition training and I am trying really hard to find a CFI before that for some refersher training but with the virus, no one is giving one-on-one instruction.

If anyone has questions feel free to ask.

Charlie
 
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Update

I have made good progress on mainly non engine related tasks. Reinstalling the wings, setting up the control surfaces and stops, finishing the instrument panel, routing wires and pitot and static lines, creating the wing root skins, and wing tips, and much much more.

Let to do.

1) Gear leg fairings
2) Canopy latching set up.
3) ADS B in and out.
4) Static and Pitot lines to guages
5) Installing antennas.
6) Install ELT.
7) Install and bled brakes.
8) Cut exhaust through cowling.
9) Upholstery
10) much more.

I hope to be able to take it to the airport in about 5 weeks.

Here is a fun panoramix my wife took last week.

oC4.jpg
 
Good report. I've been checking on you ever week. Remember to get current on flying skills. Actually - more than current with so many new systems in play on first flights. Wish best of luck and enjoy following your progress. Stay safe from virus...
 
Jim

I have been very busy, but I have not shared a lot because it goes a bit beyond the focus of the thread.

Fortunately I am on Mike Seagers schedule next month for transition training. I am very fortunate to be able to get this level of training.

I am also on the hunt for a CFI to give me some additional refresher training prior to my time with Mike. But I am having a heck of a time finding a CFI. I think I may have posted this previously.

I heard there is a CFI with a RV6 in Olympia (WA) but I have not found his contact info yet.

Charlie
 
update turbo exhaust exit

Things are progressing quite well.

I finally made a decision on which way I was going to have the exhaust exit the cowling. This was a bit of a big decision for me, only because once you cut a hole in that cowl you are committed.

So here are some pics of the turbo exhaust exiting the cowl. Also a view from the top.

Side view

oCD.jpg


Top view of exhaust exiting cowl.

oCN.jpg


Overall view of engine of top view.

oCk.jpg


I hope to have things ready to make the move to the airport in 3-4 weeks.

I fortunately have lined up two CFI for some refresher training too.

Feel free to ask questions .

Charlie
 
Ross,

Thank you for the nice words.

It is funny that you mentioned the heat shield. That is exactly what I shared with my wife who was so nice to help me with the cowling and cutting that exhaust hole. I am leaning on using band clamps on the exhaust to hold a thin stainless shield about 3/8" off the pipe. This would give about 3/4" between the shield and the silicone. If you have time, I would like to know your thoughts on that.
 
I wonder how hot the exhaust is after the turbo? A lot of energy gets used up spinning the compressor.
 
Not quite the same thing: The RV-12 has a flexible oil hose passing thru exhaust loop of right front cylinder. The hose is held away from the hot exhaust with a minimal hanger strap. I always shake my head at that decision...

 
I wonder how hot the exhaust is after the turbo? A lot of energy gets used up spinning the compressor.

Jim

I really have not ran the engine long enough at high manifold pressures to give a meaningful temp. But my recollection is 1300*F for a ball ball park number
 
Ross,

Thank you for the nice words.

It is funny that you mentioned the heat shield. That is exactly what I shared with my wife who was so nice to help me with the cowling and cutting that exhaust hole. I am leaning on using band clamps on the exhaust to hold a thin stainless shield about 3/8" off the pipe. This would give about 3/4" between the shield and the silicone. If you have time, I would like to know your thoughts on that.

Yup, that's worked for me on my setup.
 
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