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Archer Nav performance

rvdave

Well Known Member
Just started flying the 10 and as I notice things I?m looking into them. Currently noticing the archer Nav antenna on one Nav radio flags sometimes below 4000 ft. Wondering if that would be normal for vor range. It does pick up and lock into glideslope well. So don?t know if it?s a radio problem or not. Any comparisons?
 
There are numerous threads on the subject of Archer antennas.

Short version is that when PROPERLY installed, it works great but has somewhat less range than external catwhiskers. Important aspects of the install are routing of the wingtip lighting along the leading edge of the antenna and it should be grounded either by installing to a piece of angle on the outboard rib or under the tip attach nutplates. It should also be installed as far forward in the tip as possible without touching heat shielding, strobes and Nav lights.
 
Just started flying the 10 and as I notice things I?m looking into them. Currently noticing the archer Nav antenna on one Nav radio flags sometimes below 4000 ft. Wondering if that would be normal for vor range. It does pick up and lock into glideslope well. So don?t know if it?s a radio problem or not. Any comparisons?

My Archer Nav antenna has worked flawlessly for 20-years. When installed according to directions, they work flawlessly.

Need to know the distance from VOR more than the altitude. Yes altitude can be an issue if you are too far from the VOR but typically distance is what is needed as well as the type of VOR you are using. (VOR types: Terminal = 25 NM, Low Altitude = 40 NM, High Altitude = 40 NM - 100 NM - 130 NM altitude dependent)

It is typical for my RV-6, Archer Nav Antenna, SL-30 setup to pickup VOR signal before I can hear the Morse Code at distances over 40 NM when more than 1,000 AGL over level terrain.
 
There are numerous threads on the subject of Archer antennas.

Short version is that when PROPERLY installed, it works great but has somewhat less range than external catwhiskers. Important aspects of the install are routing of the wingtip lighting along the leading edge of the antenna and it should be grounded either by installing to a piece of angle on the outboard rib or under the tip attach nutplates. It should also be installed as far forward in the tip as possible without touching heat shielding, strobes and Nav lights.

I disagree with the external catwhiskers having more range. I always pickup VOR signals with on my SL-30 and Archer Nav Antenna before the RV flying with me that has catwhiskers.
 
There are numerous threads on the subject of Archer antennas.

Short version is that when PROPERLY installed, it works great but has somewhat less range than external catwhiskers. Important aspects of the install are routing of the wingtip lighting along the leading edge of the antenna and it should be grounded either by installing to a piece of angle on the outboard rib or under the tip attach nutplates. It should also be installed as far forward in the tip as possible without touching heat shielding, strobes and Nav lights.

I didn?t see anything about other grounding in the diagrams, the center conductor goes to one terminal and the grounded shield goes to the other terminal. What would be the purpose of another ground?
 
I disagree with the external catwhiskers having more range. I always pickup VOR signals with on my SL-30 and Archer Nav Antenna before the RV flying with me that has catwhiskers.

I agree. I can pick up VORs at distances well beyond their service volume with the archer antenna on an Avidyne IFD. But it was installed according to directions, as I suspect your was.
 
I will have to recheck that. The kit I bought the previous builder had already glassed in the antenna to the wingtips but vaguely recall it adjoining the line of screws for the wingtip. Have to wait for a no fly day to disassemble though.
 
I have both

I have both installed and have tried a few times to see the difference. The cat whiskers work twice the range of the bob archer. I'm not saying the bob archer doesn't work ok I'm saying my cat whiskers work double the range.
 
I have both installed and have tried a few times to see the difference. The cat whiskers work twice the range of the bob archer. I'm not saying the bob archer doesn't work ok I'm saying my cat whiskers work double the range.

The Archer Antenna is not installed correctly. When installed correctly, it will outperform the cat whisker.
 
Does anyone has a good sketch of Bob Archer antenna, I am planning on making one but don?t have a good sketch for the dimensions. Also, what is the grounding requirement for the Archer, in my last plane I had one in the wing tip that was attached to the last rib for good grounding. It worked flawlessly and great reception but I am hoping this time to attach it to the wing tip and only use the nut plates for grounding, I am wondering if that provides adequate ground.
 
You?ll want more than a sketch. The length, width, thickness, and material in the little parallel plate capacitor are fairly critical.
I put my ground leg under the nut plates, fastened with the nut plate rivets. Make sure you have good metal to metal contact all the way from the antenna to the rib.
 
Archer Install question

I am getting close to installing Archer VOR antenna in RV10 wing tip. The instructions state to run the light wires via the red arrow.

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Because I will be mounting the strobe\position lights where the blue circle is, question is, do I need to run the wires along the full length of this front element or can I route the lines halfway up this forward element and turn left (about at the 2nd cable clamp) and go direct to the lights as indicated by the green arrow?
 
Does anyone has a good sketch of Bob Archer antenna, I am planning on making one but don?t have a good sketch for the dimensions. Also, what is the grounding requirement for the Archer, in my last plane I had one in the wing tip that was attached to the last rib for good grounding. It worked flawlessly and great reception but I am hoping this time to attach it to the wing tip and only use the nut plates for grounding, I am wondering if that provides adequate ground.

Installation instructions with dimensions:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/SA001A.pdf
 
Does anyone has a good sketch of Bob Archer antenna, I am planning on making one but don?t have a good sketch for the dimensions. Also, what is the grounding requirement for the Archer, in my last plane I had one in the wing tip that was attached to the last rib for good grounding. It worked flawlessly and great reception but I am hoping this time to attach it to the wing tip and only use the nut plates for grounding, I am wondering if that provides adequate ground.

Read my post on this thread about how to build your antenna: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=153969

At any rate - recommend attaching the antenna to the wing rib. This makes wingtip removal much simplier.

Carl
 
. SNIP

Because I will be mounting the strobe\position lights where the blue circle is, question is, do I need to run the wires along the full length of this front element or can I route the lines halfway up this forward element and turn left (about at the 2nd cable clamp) and go direct to the lights as indicated by the green arrow?

There is no reason to run nav/strobe wires along the antenna as shown in the instruction manual, and some consideration not to. I read these instructions as ?If you really need to have NAV/Stobe wires near the antenna, run them like this?.

I?ve always mounted my homebrew antennas a little aft along the wing rib to provide some separation between the antenna and the nav/strobe/landing light wires. Three RVs flying with this setup (the fourth later this year) with good performace from these antennas.

Carl
 
Read my post on this thread about how to build your antenna: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=153969

At any rate - recommend attaching the antenna to the wing rib. This makes wingtip removal much simplier.

Carl
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the info but could it be that is the wrong thread? I read the discussion about installing a com antenna in the wing tip but did not see anything on building the Bob Archer VOR antenna in that thread.
In regards to attaching it to the wing rib, I think it would be more difficult to remove that way. In my RV7, I had to use a foam to hold it in place since it could not be attached to the wingtip and putting the wingtip on was a bit of work. The way I envision with the antenna attached to the wingtip, I only need to disconnect the coax cable to remove the tip. Any other concern or consideration with this process?
 
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Hi Carl,
Thanks for the info but could it be that is the wrong thread? I read the discussion about installing a com antenna in the wing tip but did not see anything on building the Bob Archer VOR antenna in that thread.
In regards to attaching it to the wing rib, I think it would be more difficult to remove that way. In my RV7, I had to use a foam to hold it in place since it could not be attached to the wingtip and putting the wingtip on was a bit of work. The way I envision with the antenna attached to the wingtip, I only need to disconnect the coax cable to remove the tip. Any other concern or consideration with this process?

The Archer type comm and VOR antennas are identical except the VOR antenna is slightly longer and mounted horizontal, the Comm antenna is mounted with as much vertical change in the arm that extends out from the wing rib as possible.

If you attach the antenna to a piece of 0.032 angle that is bolted to the wing rib, the wingtip simply slides over the antenna. The antenna never gets moved. The leg of the antenna running off the wing rib just lays inside the wingtip.

Per my previous notes, I point out that you can improve the antenna performace by extending it out into the wingtip as far as you can. The ?tail? gets shorten to maintain the same resonant frequency. This however requires the use of an antenna analyzer to tune it to the appropriate frequency and adjust the gamma match to the 50 ohm feedline. An antenna analyzer should be one of the first shared tools that any EAA chapter to get. The other option is to find an experienced ham radio operator in your area and ask him to help. Most are thrilled to do any antenna work.

Carl
 
If you attach the antenna to a piece of 0.032 angle that is bolted to the wing rib, the wingtip simply slides over the antenna. The antenna never gets moved. The leg of the antenna running off the wing rib just lays inside the wingtip.



Carl

Reviving this post looking for advice installing an Archer antenna in a wingtip installed with hinges. The hinge on the wing-side is attached with a piece of the Fiberglas flange between the hinge and the wing skin. My thought is this will insulate the hinge, so I couldn't rely on the hinge to provide the ground connection to the wing. Do you have a photo of the antenna attached to a piece of angle? Do you rivet the antenna to the angle? :confused:
 
Here is a nav antenna I made for a new RV-14A. The overall tail length is long as the photo was taken before it was shorten during the tuning process. The black tape was use to temporarily hold it in place while tuning.
Carl
99_AA49_B4-_BEC2-4_EE6-9_DB8-_CD7118_FAF6_C9.jpg
 
Thank you for the quick response and the photo. This looks like it would be a good solution in my RV-14A wing. Does the antenna just slump down in the wingtip, since it looks like it is attached to the rib about in the middle? How is it attached? I have no way to measure antenna performance. I purchased my antenna from ACS. Would it be ok to just leave it full size, rather than shortening a leg?
 
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