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New guy with some questions....

Hostage46

Active Member
Merry Christmas to all ....

New guy here, been lurking for too long. I've been daydreaming about the RV since the early 90's. That's right over 15 years of ... one of these days. I even have a set of old -6 plans. So I could have built what, three of them in that timeframe?

Living in North Texas I've been aware of popularity of the RV as they are often spotting overhead, that's usually where I tell a buddy "one of these days I'm going to build one of those..."

So I've waited long enough. I think I can credit Delta Romeo for my latest uptick in interest, it seems Doug is my nieghbor here in the quite little town of Highland Village, I finally figured out it's Flash that I've seen ripping over the niegborhood having all that fun.

So I'll be ordering my tail kit within the next week or so. My question is, around tools and builder training;

  • Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.
  • Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?
  • Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!

Anyway, thanks for looking, look forward to the advice...

Dan
 
Dan Ahearn said:
Merry Christmas to all ....

New guy here, been lurking for too long. I've been daydreaming about the RV since the early 90's. That's right over 15 years of ... one of these days. I even have a set of old -6 plans. So I could have built what, three of them in that timeframe?

Living in North Texas I've been aware of popularity of the RV as they are often spotting overhead, that's usually where I tell a buddy "one of these days I'm going to build one of those..."

So I've waited long enough. I think I can credit Delta Romeo for my latest uptick in interest, it seems Doug is my nieghbor here in the quite little town of Highland Village, I finally figured out it's Flash that I've seen ripping over the niegborhood having all that fun.

So I'll be ordering my tail kit within the next week or so. My question is, around tools and builder training;

  • Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.
  • Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?
  • Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!

Anyway, thanks for looking, look forward to the advice...

Dan

Hi Dan, Merry Christmas! If you have an extra week, I highly recommend Alexander Tech Center in Griffin, GA. www.buildtofly.com
You have already wasted too much time, and in one week you could have your empennage built, and built right! Plus, you'll know exactly what you'll want and need in your tool purchases. Seems to me that everyone makes their newcomer building mistakes while building the first part of the plane, but I happen to think that the empennage is a somewhat critical part, especially if you're going to be into the kind of maneuvers that the Vans planes have been known to perform. I think it's time and money well spent.
Just my .02 worth.
 
Welcome to the club

Dan,

Congratulations on your decision! I recommend taking a building class. I took the weekend course offered by George Orndorf. I don't know if he is still offering the class l, because he is moving sometime soon, but it was very good.

The whole course was valuable, but one of the best things he did was at the end of the second day. We went, page by page, through the Avery catalog, and he pointed out the tools that would cover 99% of the build. Even suggesting what could be purchased at other locations for a better price. I bought most of what he suggested, even though I didn't know at the time when or why I would use every item. I am well into the wing kit now, and I have used everything he recommended. I can't think of a single item, that I have needed and didn't already have. It was a very comprehensive and accurate list.

Bottom line. Take a course, and buy the tools now if you can.

Happy building!
 
and here's my take(i just started so take it for what it's worth)

1. you may not need to purchase all the tools. I have been able to borrow a C-frame dimpler, a Tatco squeezer, other odds&ends and more clecos than I could carry. SO you can save some significant money, by getting involved with other builders. BUT I also purchased some used tools cheap, before I knew what I was looking at and many of them are junk. If I was to do it over I would bite the bullet and order the Avery Kit

2. No info on the mini projects from Vans. I went to a friends shop and he gave me "rivet 101" training for a couple hours. Worked for me.

3. I had thought about a "builder class", but being in Montana...any class was going to take some travel and much expense. After talking with several builders, I concluded that I am capable enough(with their assistance) to tackle this and save my money for more stuff. If money was no object I may have gone to Oregon for a Emp build class.

The best thing you can do is get your work area organized. the best tools are useless if you can find them.

Welcome aboard and good luck.
 
I forgot...

Hydroguy's post reminded me of one other thing. We built the Vans practice kit wing section in the class we took.

I also agree that there is nothing magic about a "professional" course in riveting. If you want to buy the practice kit and come to my hangar some Saturday, I could show you the basics you need to get started.
 
Joe appreciate the offer. I sent a note off to George, I'll let you know when I hear from him. Regardless I'd definitely like to have a look at the project.

Curious how many builders are there in the DFW area?
 
Dan Ahearn said:
[*]Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.

No reason to invest 2 grand up front, you can buy as you go.

Dan Ahearn said:
[*]Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?

Yes, especially if you are going to start building with no instruction. See next response.

Dan Ahearn said:
[*]Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!

YES! I didn't do this BUT I am surrounded buy builders and very experienced A&P's. I see that you already have an offer for instruction so go that route first.

Dan Ahearn said:
Curious how many builders are there in the DFW area?

Here's a start, RV Whitepages
 
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Merry Christmas and welcome to the RV world. I think it depends on your skill level as a craftsperson or backyard putzer as to what type of training to look for. Since you are close to other flying RVs and builders, you have an edge.

I did the weekend RV assembly and found it was just what I needed to learn riveting basics and use of the tools. I purchased the Avery RV tool kit and added extra clecoes, yokes and substituted a pneumatic squeezer instead of the hand squeezer. I added a longeron and 1" and 4" no hole yokes to compliment my 3" yoke. Get lots of #30 and 40 bits. I upgraded to a Souix drill and 3X rivet gun. I also went quick build on the wings and fuselage.

The more and better tools you have, the easier it is to do a better job. A good size (4 X 8' if possible) table that is flat, level, and sturdy is essential. Place an MDF surface on it so you can drill into it and clecoe parts to it. Have a nice size back riveting plate, too. And have plenty of good lighting. Set up your shop so you can organize things and have several work spaces, if possible.

You will get many bags of parts as you progress through the building. Set them aside in numerical order. Most of the bags are set up for certain subassemblies. As you use the bags, have little parts drawers reserved to place leftover rivets and small parts. I would not recommend unbagging and sorting until you actually need the bag of parts. The inventory sheets tell you what is in the bags. It is easier to determine what the parts are when you only have to sort a few.

Happy Building,

Roberta
 
Thanks Roberta,

I'll plan on taking advantage of local builders who are willing to show me a thing or two. George O is close as well.

I'd characterized myself as pretty handy, certainly have a lot to learn, but that's the point! To start the only thing's I'm lacking are specialized metal working tools. Plenty of things like a bandsaw, drill press, grinder, storage space, and a way more bench space than I need.

My current shop will handle the tail feathers and maybe even the wings, I can always put some air into the garage when it's time for the fuse ....

Dan ...
 
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As I said in a previous to someone looking for tools in Italy, if I had it to do again I would buy most of the tools used if I could. Maybe you'll have to replace a couple of dies that have gouges on them, or something like that, but you'll come out WAY ahead. And it really easy to find used Avery kits on the market. If you're lucky, you can find the tools, emp and wing kit for less than the price of the wing kit alone.

just my $.02
 
Experience

Some tools that will really really help you are:
A drill press, a bench type is ok
A drill press vise
2 wheel bench grinder one side for scotchbrite wheel
6 each or more #30 and #40 long shaft bits
A feathering trigger air drill
A right angel air drill
Several variable speed battery powered drills
2 sets of drill bits at least to 3/8 plus 7/16
A good solid 8 inch vise and bench to work from
Rubber vise jaws
A neon portable light and a rechargeable flashligh
A set of Mill files and rasps
A set of very small files (miniatures)
Hacksaw and good blades
Number drill bits 9, 10, 12
2 sets of open end and socket wrenchs up to 3/4
1/4 drive and 3/8 drive socket sets
1/4 drive 3/8 drive and 1/2 drive torque wrenchs
Extensions and universals for all drives
Wobble extnsions for your 1/4 drive these are better than universals
Channell locks, vise grips needle nose and dykes
A set of Washer wrenchs man these are great
Many different kinds an d sizes of clamps like C, squeeze,
Rotary file for your drill
Dremmel tool kit and accessories with cutoff disks
High speed air driven cut off and disks
About 100 small cheap plastic storage bins 2x4x6 size
Tube cutter that can cut up to 2 inch dia
flareing tool for 1/4 and 3/8
Tube benders of your choice
All kinda screw drivers and screw bits
A small hand brake about 18 inchs wide
Carpenters squares large and small
Levels and plumb bobs
Drill gage
Allen wrenchs
Small caliphers increments down to 32nd or dial gage
air compressor 150psi at 5cfm
And, all the riveting, squeezing, bucking and driving tools
I bet I left out a bunch of stuff, but you will use all of the above and if you buy a kit, you will sitll not get everything you need. Hey, maybe Santa will leave all this stuff under your tree tonight aye? :eek: Happy trails. :D
 
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in texas

Dan havent you heard? if you live in texas all you have to do is buy a kit and others will build it for you? man i wish i lived in texas.. ive been doing this for three years and have .5 rv time as a pax. oh and by the way thanks james clark, it was great
 
A builder's class is good, but not necessary. At the very least, it will give you confidence to keep moving forward. We have a guy here who has put in about 10 hrs. on his RV-8 in 2 years & seems to be afraid to move forward for fear of not doing things perfectly.

Recognize that you will screw up. Folks often say they built 1 1/2 airplanes. Learn to fix the screwup & move on.

Tools: As someone else said, if you take a builder's class, wait until you take it before you invest much in tools. Then you will have a better idea of what you want. At the Synergyair class, they had Avery squeezers, Cleveland "main squeeze" and pneumatic squeezers to try. One guy here started out with an Avery squeezer, then moved up to a Cleveland, then to a pneumatic. So try 'em before you buy 'em.

Each of the major tools suppliers is better in one way or another than the other guys, so it pays to shop around, but I suggest you start with Avery who is great on customer service.

Near a big city? Start a builder's group, meet once a month at someone's project & trade ideas, hints and experiences. Gives you a network: if you dont' know how to do something, you will know someone who has already done it & will be willing to help. Also helps keep up the enthusiasm. If there aren't many RV's in your area, make it a builder's group for anyone building any airplane--you all need instruments, engines, props, etc. All you need is someone to schedule the meetings and email others info on the time, place directions. I ask our host to talk for a few minutes about any problems he had, how he solved it, any techniques or tools he found useful, etc. Anything that will help others.

Good luck on your project!
 
Gimme a call

Dan,

I'll be working on the project all this coming week. I'm off work until the day after new year's.

Call me at 817-798-3042 if you want to come out to the hangar. I'm at Spinks (KFWS) in SouthWest Fort Worth.

I'll even let you help with some rib edge finishing if you want!
 
Happy Holidays, Dan! Welcome!

You'll need all the tools, but you can buy a 'starter kit' from almost all of the tool companies. Buy the Van's starter kit (tool box / flap section). Either works fine for showing you how to work rivets.

I'll come over to your house and show you how to drill/rivet/deburr/etc. saving you the money you'd spend on a builder class. Spend the saved money on your tail kit or more tools! :D

I'll bring the 496 over and set your house as a waypoint. A guy needs motivational noise occasionally ;) .

b,
dr

Dan Ahearn said:
Merry Christmas to all ....

New guy here, been lurking for too long. I've been daydreaming about the RV since the early 90's. That's right over 15 years of ... one of these days. I even have a set of old -6 plans. So I could have built what, three of them in that timeframe?

Living in North Texas I've been aware of popularity of the RV as they are often spotting overhead, that's usually where I tell a buddy "one of these days I'm going to build one of those..."

So I've waited long enough. I think I can credit Delta Romeo for my latest uptick in interest, it seems Doug is my nieghbor here in the quite little town of Highland Village, I finally figured out it's Flash that I've seen ripping over the niegborhood having all that fun.

So I'll be ordering my tail kit within the next week or so. My question is, around tools and builder training;
  • Do I need to lay out $2K for an entire tool package? My position on tools has always been, buy 'em as you need 'em.
  • Vans has a few starter kits to fiddle with, are they worth the effort?
  • Would I be better off at a builders class, must be plenty of that in Dallas!
Anyway, thanks for looking, look forward to the advice...

Dan
 
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Call anytime

Dan,

Welcome to the the group. I took all my classes from Sportair and they teach it in Dallas. Classes should be in early March. I would recommend them to you. You can also drop in anytime and check out my progress or check it on the web. I have 2 RV'r by me so come look and we can get you hooked up on cheap benches and etc. Also check the Sportair classes on the EAA web and it will give you the dates in Dallas. Sign up early because they fill up fast.
 
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