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Own a flying saucer

gmcjetpilot

gmcjetpilot

Well Known Member
Remember the Moller flying car? You know the guy who said we'd have one in or driveway and all will be flying by the year 2015. Well he's selling his prototype for a meager starting bid of $500,000. he he he.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moll...1QQihZ015QQcategoryZ26428QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you want to invest in the company here is there web site: http://www.moller.com/skycar/ (I'm going to pass).

The latest is the M400 is suppose to be certified end of 2008. :rolleyes: They are taking deposits for that as well. Just thought I let you know, so you can be the first on your block to get a skycar.
 
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Vertical Lift Vehicles Suck (fuel that is)

I don't get Moller's insistence on using vertical thrust. Sure, VTOL is nice...but that thing is designed to use 8 engines! Can you say fuel burn?

At Oshkosh this year there was a vendor there with a big sign outside their tent that said "It's not a flying car, it's a roadable airplane". I chuckled, rolled my eyes and walked in there anyway. I spoke with one of the company's employees and was pleasantly surprised to see no exaggerated claims or promises. I asked technical questions about how the folding wing would work, etc. They had interesting ideas but were very realistic that there were several challenges.

Anyway, the company's name is Terrafugia (website). They are a bunch of MIT grads and they really seem to know their stuff.

So far this is the most promising "flying car" that I've seen.

Oh yeah, if you look at the target specifications listed on their website you'll see that they are aiming for the LSA category and are basing the aircraft around the Rotax 912. They are aiming for a price around $150k.

I still don't understand how you can make an airplane road-worthy, especially when you consider that airplanes are inherently built as light as possible to do the job, whereas autos seem to get heavier and heavier every single year. It will be difficult to make an airplane road crash-worthy unless you encase the cockpit in kevlar ($$$) or something similar. It will be especially difficult to do this and keep the airplane in the LSA category.

I think of the things that give them the most credibility in my eyes is their deposit system they have set up. They basically hold your deposit in a Bank of America escrow-type account. My understanding is that your money isn't touched until you reach a final purchase agreement with them. In other words, they aren't taking deposits and investing the money in R&D -- they're using the deposits to convince investors that there exists a viable market for that type of aircraft.
 
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Good points

Remeber the Cartoon "The Jetsons", George Jetson, his wife Jane Jetson, daughter Judy, Son Elroy Jetson and his dog Astro. They just jumped into their little flying saucer on there patio or porch and off they went, zooooump.

Jamie thanks for the info. Flying cars did work have been done, the most famous was the certified 1949 Aerocar (one still flys, two museum):

AeroCar.jpg


Here is blog on the Moller Sky Car about 1 year ago: http://www.therawfeed.com/2005_09_01_archive.html

Basically the link above says it all (also has quicktime video link). Oddly he's selling it or was selling it in Neiman Marcus for 3.5 mil? The article makes all the good points. Funny the last flown (tethered hovered) prototype, the M400 in 2003, looks nothing like the artistic rendering in above link, circa 2005. It looks like its growing wings. Pretty soon it will be an airplane. A lot of this stuff reminds me of stuffed tried in the 50's and 60s. VTOL has always been a dream. The Osprey tilt rotor has had its share of problems for sure and has many critics.

So let me say it, I think the Moller Sky Car is ridiculously impractical and will never fly as claimed, much less be a safe everyone air vehicle. 8 rotary engines turning 4 high speed rotors? Wow that should really be quite and economic. :rolleyes: There is no way it will fly out of ground effect with 4 people at 275 mph (375 top) at 20 mpg and 750 miles.

The stock trades at 0.35 to 0.43 cents a share? It peaked at $7.50 about 60 months ago July 2002 and by July 2003 it was less than $1.00 and has been on a slow steady decline to today's price. GET IT WHILE ITS LOW. I guess Bell's civil Tilt rotor is about as close to practical VTOL in the future, but that will not be a every man's sky car.

When we have anti-gravity generators "George Jetson style", I'm afraid this idea is dead, at least in our lifetime, but how has he kept it going so long with no results amazes me? It just seems like he's a snake oil sales man. Speaking of snake oil, Dr. Moller sells life extending Almond Butter. May be with that we can live long enough to see flying cars. :rolleyes:
 
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I'd actually love to see one of these things actually catch on, to be honest. I wouldn't want one for commuting, though. This is all just personal and based on how I like to travel for business. I want to show up at the airport 45 minutes before my flight, stroll through the security checkpoint, kick back with a Guiness and relax on the way out. I hop off the plane, grab my nice, shinny new rental car and I'm all set. Sometimes it's even sitting in the parking lot warming up for you when you land. Sweet. Sometimes I wish I could just hop in my own airplane and go but an hour into the flight I'm usually enjoying the time to myself (rare). I'm the consumate, lazy business traveller :)

Now where a flying car would be REALLY cool is in the midwest, northern New England, etc...rural territory. How cool would it be to be able to fly to the nearest town, pick up your stuff, and fly home? In many places I've been, the nearest town where you can get ANYTHING, save for firewood, canned food and blueberry beer, is quite a drive.

I live in the Antelope Valley and would LOVE to have one of these. I have to drive 1 1/2 to 2 hours or more if I want to buy anything interesting (I had to drive over 2 hours on Sunday to buy a decent bean bag chair...don't ask...long story). The bean bag chair wouldn't have fit in the back any air-car so I guess that's not a good example, but that's not the point! Ok...so I'm nutty...I want a flying car. :D

I'm with George on this one, though...I don't think I want that VTOL thingy. That Terrafugia one looks kinda' cool, though. I wish them luck.
 
I live in Davis, CA. Without breaking a sweat, I could round up a small army of people who worked for Paul Moller at one time or another. All of whom would smirk if you mentioned his name. I've worked with many of them over the years. Pretty much Moller's only real talent has been bilking wealthy middle eastern oil well owners to finance his ideas. Even the SEC has gotten on his tail at one point.

The laws of physics as regards aerodynamics are pretty well understood. A few lift/drag/thrust/gravity calculations will show that all of Moller's claims are valid, just not all at the same time. Sort of like the old adage that you can have it fast, cheap, and well-made. Pick any two. :eek:
 
They are all true but not at the same time?

Lars said:
The laws of physics as regards aerodynamics are pretty well understood. A few lift/drag/thrust/gravity calculations will show that all of Moller's claims are valid, just not all at the same time.
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Thats Funny :D

Lars said:
Sort of like the old adage that you can have it fast, cheap, and well-made. Pick any two. :eek:
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Well you mean Pick any ONE. Fast and Cheap does not happen together, fast cost money. I guess it depends on what definition of fast and cheap is.

Yes the idea of flying out your backyard or driveway and landing in the parking lot of your job, making a 1.5 hour drive into an easy 15 minutes drive has lots of appeal. However flying is not for everyone. Have you seen how some people drive cars? Until the NASA concept of autonomous air vehicles is realized this Sky Car looks crazy idea to me and always has. Remember the jet pack. Strap it on and go fly. The myth busters tried to make one from plans on the internet. It was more of a personal helicopter with one big ducted fan. It could not lift its own weight. I think Moller has shot has glory back in 2003 when the stock peaked. Now it seems he is trying to raise money by selling "prototypes". I just hope no one gets killed in the darn things.
 
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Lars said:
I live in Davis, CA. Without breaking a sweat, I could round up a small army of people who worked for Paul Moller at one time or another. All of whom would smirk if you mentioned his name. I've worked with many of them over the years. Pretty much Moller's only real talent has been bilking wealthy middle eastern oil well owners to finance his ideas. Even the SEC has gotten on his tail at one point.

The laws of physics as regards aerodynamics are pretty well understood. A few lift/drag/thrust/gravity calculations will show that all of Moller's claims are valid, just not all at the same time. Sort of like the old adage that you can have it fast, cheap, and well-made. Pick any two. :eek:
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Too true. I know 3 folks who worked there, and all 3 had the same impression.

Also, Moller is not a pilot.

Mike
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Just thought I let you know, so you can be the first on your block to get a skycar.
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Not interested unless it has an after burner.

As a kid, the dream was a car with folding wings and an after burner to break up and away from tedious traffic (and highway cops).

Traffic is worse today, the dream is still alive. :)

dd
 
Tacky but fun

jsherblon said:
Anyone care to take a flight in this?

Trek Aerospace is based locally, not far from Davis CA where Moller is located.....hmmmm, wait a minute this flying saucer crash site is only a few miles away. Holy cow, I'm in the middle of the flying saucer capital of the world!
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I LOVE those gimmicks: planes on a sticks or roof, dinosaurs, buildings that look like a big Hat-N-Boot and so on. Crummy zoning laws don't allow these little slices of Americana. Tacky yes but fun. They just put a smile on your face.

As far as trekaero, death on a stick.

JoeG's pic of autogyro is as close to (semi) practical (semi) VTOL as it gets, but skill and traning is needed to fly one. My brother an ex-Vietnam Army chopper pilot wants one.
 
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George - Actually there was a stink about the "decor" of the building with the saucer sticking out. It was after it had opened. The local council decided it was OK. Like the article says, it's on a major freeway(I-5), but you have to look for it.

I'd love to watch someone else fly the TrekAero. The Dragonfly looks vaguely familiar for some reason.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Well you mean Pick any ONE. Fast and Cheap does not happen together, fast cost money.
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No, pick any two - fast & cheap won't be well-made.
The way I heard it is "We do 3 kinds of work - good, cheap, and fast. Pick any two." (ie: good & cheap won't be fast; cheap & fast won't be good; fast & good won't be cheap)
 
We disagree

N674P said:
No, pick any two - fast & cheap won't be well-made.
The way I heard it is "We do 3 kinds of work - good, cheap, and fast. Pick any two." (ie: good & cheap won't be fast; cheap & fast won't be good; fast & good won't be cheap)
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I hear you, but we can agree to disagree, speed does not come cheap, regardless of quality. Making it cheap does not make it faster. This tri-union of, speed, cost and quality, is not mutually reciprocal in my opinion. Speed cost money. That is my story and I am sticking to it. :D
 
N674P said:
No, pick any two - fast & cheap won't be well-made.
The way I heard it is "We do 3 kinds of work - good, cheap, and fast. Pick any two." (ie: good & cheap won't be fast; cheap & fast won't be good; fast & good won't be cheap)
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If I may step in here... fast is a reference to the quick receipt of your product... not that it goes fast. eg: You can have it quick, cheap or good - pick which one...

:)
 
Phyrcooler said:
If I may step in here... fast is a reference to the quick receipt of your product... not that it goes fast. eg: You can have it quick, cheap or good - pick which one...

:)
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'Zactly. It's a rueful joke amongst engineers, especially those walking out of meetings where we have been berated to make stuff better, cheaper, and more quickly. Usually resulting in none of the above, generally pertaining to projects where we were trying to do something no one had ever built before. Been there, done that, many times over.
 
Oh now you tell me

Lars said:
'Zactly. It's a rueful joke amongst engineers, especially those walking out of meetings where we have been berated to make stuff better, cheaper, and more quickly. Usually resulting in none of the above, generally pertaining to projects where we were trying to do something no one had ever built before. Been there, done that, many times over.
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Oh fast as, get it done quick, not go fast speed. Doha! :eek: Definitely true with a production situation.
 
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