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Flying an RV for a business trip

n700jl

Well Known Member
Does anyone out there fly there RV on business trips? If so how did you explain this to your boss? Please help I am stuck in my car looking @ the sky trying to figure this out. Thanks!
 
Business Trip

Easy I put in a request to myself and okay it immediately. Head for the airport and fly to Vans. Business trip. 35 minutes later, pull up to Vans ramp with a RV grin! Hang out with the crew do a little business. Get back in the plane and climb like the home sick angel to get over the Cascade mountains and do the mandatory aileron roll, descend to the airport and land. Put the plane away and wipe it down. Turn around for a last look as I turn off the light and lock the door. Business trip, man work is fun! :D
 
This will vary wildly from company to company. My boss doesn't care. He allows me to expense it as if I'm driving. Our company is a very liberal company however. At first I just dropped hints that I would "get there somehow." Later on word leaked out and the boss thought it was fine. As long as I get where I'm supposed to be when I'm supposed to be there, he doesn't really care how I get there.
 
Some companies explicitly forbid travel on private aircraft for business purposes due to liability concerns. Whether or not you tell them about it, though, is up to you...

Paul
 
I followed that tactic (using a rented 172) with my last job, on the theory that begging forgiveness was a lot easier than asking permission. As it turns out, I didn't even have to beg forgiveness, they never figured it out. With my current job I travel extensively, and my boss was pretty cool about it - he said he would reimburse me whatever the cheapest airline fare would be to the nearest airport to where I was flying into - the rest was out of my pocket. For a rental 172 it's a toss-up or a slight loss, considering Southwest serves most of the places I go - but I'm willing to pay that for the airtime. With a RV9, the economy is high enough I might actually make money on the trip.
 
Work for an Aeronautics "Company"

You might think that as a government employee, I'd have a mountain of paperwork and tone of permissions to go through to do something as risky as flying a personal airplane for business purposes...and an experimental personal airplane at that! :eek:

But then again, I work for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.....we send people up in experimental flying machines all the time! :rolleyes:

So I just have my orders written to allow "transportation by private air" (I think it is actually "contract air"). I get reimbursed $0.94 per mile - up to what an airline ticket would cost on the route. And since Southwest flies most places we go, I generally just get the value of a SWA ticket, which is about what it costs me for gas to fly the Valkyrie. And for that, I get the pleasure and flexibility of dong it myself.


Paul
 
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Not all Aeronautics are created equal

While an employee of Lockheed Martin AERONAUTICS Comapany, I looked into this. Sadly, even though the government Joint Travel regulations (JTR) allow and reimburse the use of personal aircraft, Lockheed expressly prohibited it in the company travel policy.

I'm sure this is due to lawyers and bean-counters (A vile bunch) and I'm quite sure that is part of the reason I left Lockheed. Now I work as a consultant and there is no issue... except that my plane isn't flying yet!

It's always something....
 
For me it's actaully forbidden in travel rules (can't be a PIC in a plane or wessel) and this comes to travel rules due insurance policy. However, I would take that "risk" anyway so I really don't care not to do it because of missing insurance from a company... Never actually done any trips with flying but I've been flying while being on business trip (=travel rules apply at that time). I quess my boss doesn't care and would pay expenses by car if needed.
 
Ironflight said:
<snip>

So I just have my orders written to allow "transportation by private air" (I think it is actually "contract air"). I get reimbursed $0.94 per mile - up to what an airline ticket would cost on the route. And since Southwest flies most places we go, I generally just get the value of a SWA ticket, which is about what it costs me for gas to fly the Valkyrie. And for that, I get the pleasure and flexibility of dong it myself.
Paul

Paul -

How was the $0.94/mile amount derived?

thanks,

John
 
Deuskid said:
Paul -

How was the $0.94/mile amount derived?

thanks,

John

John,

It's in the current travel rules somewhere.....I am afraid I could never point you to the specifics - my secretary told me, and I believed her (always believe your secretary...)

Joe - Dang, that's what happens when the airplane people turn the running of airplane companies over to non-airplane people....very unfortunate! Right now, NASA has an administrator who is a CFI and owns a share of a Tiger...who has been known to fly himself to the Cape!

Paul
 
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The NASA Administrator needs an RV Grin!

Ironflight said:
...Right now, NASA has an administrator who is a CFI and owns a share of a Tiger...who has been known to fly himself to the Cape!...

Paul, We've gotta get Michael in an RV. He probably doesn't have time to build one, but I bet he would love to fly one. Since I'm only at the emp stage, and you are already flying, I nominate you to demonstrate the wonderful flying qualities of the RV-8 to the Administrator! :cool:

Wouldn't that be a hoot? ;)

He's already got a noticeable grin...we could just convert it to an RV GRIN!

Don
 
rv7boy said:
Paul, We've gotta get Michael in an RV. He probably doesn't have time to build one, but I bet he would love to fly one. Since I'm only at the emp stage, and you are already flying, I nominate you to demonstrate the wonderful flying qualities of the RV-8 to the Administrator! :cool:

Wouldn't that be a hoot? ;)

He's already got a noticeable grin...we could just convert it to an RV GRIN!

Don


Mike's already got a standing offer from me for a ride....it's just a question of him finding time in one of his 21 hour work days when he's in Houston.... :rolleyes:

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
John,

It's in the current travel rules somewhere.....I am afraid I could never point you to the specifics - my secretary told me, and I believed her (always believe your secretary...)

<snip>
Paul

Ahhh, so it is an 'internal NASA' defined amount. I was hoping it was something published.

This is all I can find on the subject other than a few court cases which allowed either coach or 1st class commercial airfare for 'occasional' business use of what otherwise was a pleasure craft.

Business use of aircraft

http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/contentView.do?contentType=GSA_BASIC&contentId=9646&noc=T

thanks,

John
 
Expressly forbidden

in our travel policy.

I just never read the travel policy and I guess I kinda fogot to ask my boss on the last trip.

Expect me to forget the on the next 37 business trips as well...:)

Frank
 
NASA Administrator needs an RV ride...

Ironflight said:
Mike's already got a standing offer from me for a ride....Paul

That's great! I met him at Langley last month, and I was really impressed with him. I think he'll really like your RV. :D

Don
 
JoeG said:
While an employee of Lockheed Martin AERONAUTICS Comapany, I looked into this. Sadly, even though the government Joint Travel regulations (JTR) allow and reimburse the use of personal aircraft, Lockheed expressly prohibited it in the company travel policy.

I'm sure this is due to lawyers and bean-counters (A vile bunch) and I'm quite sure that is part of the reason I left Lockheed. Now I work as a consultant and there is no issue... except that my plane isn't flying yet!

It's always something....

Yep, I'm an ex-Lockheed Martin Missiles and Space guy. I remember. When I was at WSMR for a flight test I was looking into renting an airplane at either Las Cruces or Alamogordo. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was not to fly a private airplane at any time while on company travel.

Good riddance.

Bottom line is if you want to do the right thing is check with your HR department and see what the rules are. I'm still planning on checking with them... someday. :)
 
Be carefull of the "beg forgiveness rather than ask permission" policy. There are some companies like Texas Instruments that strickly prohibit company travel in personal aircraft. And it is grounds for immediate termination.
 
AOPA can help

About 10 years ago, my company adopted a "General Aviation Program" policy. We got some help from documents provided by AOPA. The program lets employees sign up to fly themselves on business trips if they go through a bunch of hoops, all quite reasonable:

- must be instrument rated and current
- must be night current, even for day flights
- airplane must be appropriately equipped
- must get an annual checkout from our director of flight ops
- must carry an insurance policy with the company named as an insured party (that costs me $400/year, for which I am not reimbursed).
- There's a very important "who's in charge" clause in our policy: the pilot cannot be pressured to fly by someone who outranks him.
- There's also a clause that says that employees who don't want to fly in a GA airplane can't be required to go...alternate transportation will be provided.

Once you jump through all the hoops, the company reimburses actual costs up to the cost of an equivalent airline ticket. I already have email approval from the CEO to take my RV-7 on business trips once it's done...hopefully the lawyers and hand-wringers won't change his mind!

As for taking Mike Griffin up for a ride...I met him a couple of times through work (before he became the NASA Administrator) and if you Johnson guys don't take him up before my RV is done (1-2 years) I'll take him. He lives a few miles away from me...at least he did back when he was at Orbital Sciences.

BTW, he is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Do not try to BS him...he can detect fertilizer a mile away.
 
Now we are getting some where

that was a great post. My company policy forbids travel by private aircraft but my boss is for it. The strange thing is we are an aviation company!
 
GSA POV Airplane Rate = $1.07

A lot of companies use the GSA rates, see the following table from GSA's website... http://tinyurl.com/sx4x


2006 POV Mileage Reimbursement Rates

GSA has established the mileage reimbursement rates for federal employees who use privately owned vehicles while on official travel.

The rates for the use of these modes of transportation, effective January 1, 2006, are as follows:

Privately Owned Vehicle Reimbursement Rates:
- Airplane .......... $1.07 per mile
- Automobile Rates:
44.5 cents per mile (if no Government Owned Vehicle available)
28.5 cents per mile (if Government Owned Vehicle available)
12.5 cents per mile (if committed to use Government Owned Vehicle)
- Motorcycle POV Rate ..... 30.5 cents per mile
 
I used to work with a guy who was a marketing rep for a big oil aviation fuel marketer prior to our meeting. Us talking about "better jobs" one day, I said something about flying my own plane around visiting the various locations he had to visit as a fuel marketing rep. As I recall, he said they had to fly commercial and rent a car. No private planes! What an endorsement for the product!

Thank a lawyer!!!!
 
n700jl said:
My company policy forbids travel by private aircraft but my boss is for it. The strange thing is we are an aviation company!

We are a UAV company. Our CEO was initially opposed to it, too, and even issued a policy forbidding it, until someone took it upon himself to put a draft policy together that protected the company's interests. With a few revisions, it was approved.

Company policy does not come down from Mt. Sinai engraved on stone tablets. I'm sure that at huge companies like L-M it's very hard if not impossible to change it, but at smaller companies, it's not that hard.

Not only does a GA-friendly policy help move people around efficiently, it keeps the pilot/employees happy, and for most companies, replacing people who quit is a big deal. It's easier (i.e. cheaper) to keep the ones you have.

If they won't listen to you, quit and go work somewhere where they will! An employee who has enough stick-to-it-ness to build his own airplane is someone worth keeping...if your employer doesn't see that, they're not worthy of YOU.

OK, I am now dismounting from my high horse...

Cheers,
Martin
 
wow

Hey that was great! you made a lot of valuable points. I have put together a power point presentation to sell this to upper management.
 
n700jl said:
I have put together a power point presentation to sell this to upper management.

'course, if you get fired for stirring the pot, you didn't hear it from me!

Good luck,
Martin
 
Business trips in the RV

If you are looking to travel via small airplane for busniess I have only one thing to say "Have time to spare go by air"

Marvin
 
In the mid 90's my wifes uncle was a fair haired boy at Merrill Lynch and he did a lot of traveling on company business. He went out and found an airplane that he liked and bought it. He then leased it to Merrill Lynch with a clause that he was the only person that could fly it. It took less than two years for the company to fully pay for his plane which was something he was quite proud of. In the mean time he was able to do his trips on his schedule and enjoy the trips to boot.

Best,
 
Flying is risky

Scares the heck out of noble institutions like the California Institute of Technology who runs the Jet Propulsion Laboratory as Federally Funded Reasearch Facility for NASA. Employees are strictly forbiden from flying in private planes for business even though NASA permits it. I requested a waiver because I owned my own plane and I flew it to work in LA every day (or night on occassion), I was instrument rated and around 3,000 hours in the very plane I would fly on short business trips. It was denied and the chief legal council said in a message to me if something happened to me there would be no insurance coverage provided by Caltech. Do you see the mirror message here? That was fine with me so I lied and flew. The message is, if you reach the end of the appeals and rationalization process without success and really want to fly, you can pay your own way accept all the risks and just do it. LIfe is a gamble.

Bob Axsom
 
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As opposed to the airlines?

Marvin said:
If you are looking to travel via small airplane for busniess I have only one thing to say "Have time to spare go by air"

Marvin

Quite right...the best way to travel is by business jet. Sadly, I don't have one...and the company's brass has priority over the corporate turboprop. So it's either fly myself in a little single-engine airplane or experience the joy of airline travel. Sometimes I get delayed, admittedly, but I try to give myself a little "time to spare," as you put it.

If I had better writing skills I'd try to make these rhyme:

"Wanna show off your socks? Take the airlines."

"Want your luggage to visit Miami without you? Change planes at Atlanta!"

"Whenever your meeting is, we can't get you there until it's over."

"We may be crowded, but at least we're late."

"The weather here and at your destination is perfect. Your airplane, however, is elsewhere at the moment."

"Sorry you're all packed into this airless aluminum tube...to make up for that, here are some peanuts to give everyone gas."
 
Martin,

LOL. All those airline experiences except mainly the luggage--don't know where it went. I fly my Bonanza on a business trip every week and my on time arrival is quite a bit better than my airline experience. Memphis in the morning, Allentown Monday, Trenton the next week.
 
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