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Working on the nose gear with wing jacks ...

bkervaski

Hellloooooooo!
Testing
I have my new wing jacks built and I want to check/adjust my nosewheel breakout force.

Normally, I would just have someone hold down the tail or tie it off to pull the nose up a bit.

I've never used wing jacks before .. would having the plane jacked up a bit make it easier to get the nose off the ground or should I stick to my original method of just pushing the tail down?

Thanks for any advice :D
 
YMMV..... don?t jack wing , just push/ pull down tail while mains are on the ground. Possible for plane coming off stands if both mains off ground while pushing nose or tail down. Easier I bet so, but not the way I would/ have done .
 
Dolly

I use a furniture dolly with 4 concrete blocks with a ratchet strap to pull the tail down. Do nose wheel work. Remove one block and nose settles down gently. When not in use I store my plane manuals on it. Couldn?t find a picture.
 
No to wing jacks for said reasons plus typically wing jacks points are normally aft of the gear to prevent tipping which in turn increases the weight on the nose.

R
 
Jacks

typically wing jacks points are normally aft of the gear to prevent tipping which in turn increases the weight on the nose.
R
Incorrect. The jack points on an RV are bolted/riveted to the main spar. This is well forward of the main gear on nose dragger models. Placing the aircraft on jacks and stabilizing with a weighted tail-stand is the proper way to service the nose gear.
 
Incorrect. The jack points on an RV are bolted/riveted to the main spar. This is well forward of the main gear on nose dragger models. Placing the aircraft on jacks and stabilizing with a weighted tail-stand is the proper way to service the nose gear.

Not sure who decides what the proper way is to service the nose gear, but I could show you a pic of the hole in my wing that was created when my A&P had my airplane up on jacks. Too much reefing/jiggling and bang - off she went and there was a hole. Now - this was not an RV (it was a Cherokee 140) but I learned a big lesson - there is no way I'd do any maintenance with my aircraft on wing jacks unless there was no other method available. Just my 2 cents.
 
Lifting up the wing will not lift up the nose wheel due to the CG. I would think it would be a bit risky to lift up the wings and then push down the tail, mishap can be very disastrous.

Why not just use a floor jack (automotive style) to lift up the nose wheel. The floor jack will not effect the rotation of the nose gear since it is only pushing against the gear leg and all bearing portion of that nose wheel is free rotating independent of the bottom of the gear leg.

Edit: Plus 1 for Snob3 comment and sorry to hear about your mishap. There are multiple reports on VAF for such mishaps. Likewise, I do not use wing jack unless there is no other method of servicing it. Floor jack has served me well so far since I work only on one wheel at the time.
 
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Why not just use a floor jack (automotive style) to lift up the nose wheel. The floor jack will not effect the rotation of the nose gear since it is only pushing against the gear leg and all bearing portion of that nose wheel is free rotating independent of the bottom of the gear leg.

I was looking for a way to do it without removing the cowl since it's only about a 10 minute job.
 
I'm hijacking this a bit, sorry. How do you do the main gear fairings without jacking the plane at the wings? Plans specifically say the mains must be off the ground and plane level.
 
I'm hijacking this a bit, sorry. How do you do the main gear fairings without jacking the plane at the wings? Plans specifically say the mains must be off the ground and plane level.

Mine was still on the table at that point, was easy.

I don't think anyone is saying "never use wing jacks" just that only use them when you have to and minimize the rocking about to avoid any mishaps. Bogart makes a nice adapter for wing jacks, should help keep things nice and stable.
 
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The Proper Way

Not sure who decides what the proper way is to service the nose gear

The manufacturer decides, which would be the builder in the case of an RV of course, so there's no standard procedure and we are all free to do our own thing. Lotsa folks choose to replicate standard industry practice as a surrogate for a published procedure where possible.

Too much reefing/jiggling and bang - off she went and there was a hole. Now - this was not an RV (it was a Cherokee 140)

I too happen to own a 1976 Cherokee 140 and put it up on jacks every year - like the manual calls for. It has yet to fall off. Maybe I'm just lucky, but so were the other guys who have done it for over 40 years on this aircraft - it doesn't have any holes in the wings ;)

there is no way I'd do any maintenance with my aircraft on wing jacks unless there was no other method available. Just my 2 cents.

Many years ago, as a young apprentice, I witnessed a colleague hook the head of a ball peen hammer under a frame rail to pull himself out from under a truck. You guessed it - the hammer slipped and the poor guy smashed his skull right between the eyes and was seriously injured. I still don't think hammers are dangerous, but maybe I'm just not too smart. Mind you - I wouldn't use one as a frame rail hook, just as I might take it easy on the reefing/jiggling when my plane is up on jacks...

Maintenance technique is the builder's prerogative, nobody should do anything they feel is unsafe.

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Incorrect. The jack points on an RV are bolted/riveted to the main spar. This is well forward of the main gear on nose dragger models. Placing the aircraft on jacks and stabilizing with a weighted tail-stand is the proper way to service the nose gear.

OK, thanks.....about where is the CG in relations to the jack points and main gear? Approx. in inches if possible. Well forward reads like a foot or more.
You have me curious.

R
 
I was looking for a way to do it without removing the cowl since it's only about a 10 minute job.

Where or how were you going to attach your scale without removing the wheel pants off?

With my wheel pants, there is no room at least without risk of damage to the wheel pants to attach the scale to the axle bolt.
 
about where is the CG in relations to the jack points and main gear? Approx. in inches if possible. Well forward reads like a foot or more.R

Dunno. However, consider that the center of lift in our straight wing birds is very close to the main spar and the CG is somewhere a short distance forward of that. This means that while supported on the jack points, the amount of tail weight need to balance the plane is very little and the associated stress on the empennage is also minimal.
Using a lot of weight on the tail to lift the nose with the mains as a fulcrum will work, but places a lot of stress on the structure and on the (builder cut) threads in the tail tie-down in particular.
 
Scissor Jack

Jacking both wings up and holding the tail down seems like a lot of work. I simply take the wheel spat off and use a car scissor jack, yes it will fit, and a small piece of ply wood under the front leg - to protect the leg from metal on metal damage. I just need to lift the leg half an inch off the ground and then I can attach my scales and check the break away force. I can do this all by myself with no risk to the aircraft or myself.
 
Where or how were you going to attach your scale without removing the wheel pants off?

I was trying to avoid removing the cowl, nose wheel pants come off pretty easy.
 
Jacking both wings up and holding the tail down seems like a lot of work. I simply take the wheel spat off and use a car scissor jack, yes it will fit, and a small piece of ply wood under the front leg - to protect the leg from metal on metal damage. I just need to lift the leg half an inch off the ground and then I can attach my scales and check the break away force. I can do this all by myself with no risk to the aircraft or myself.

Ahh! Great idea .. and we have a winner :D :D :D
 
Where or how were you going to attach your scale without removing the wheel pants off?

With my wheel pants, there is no room at least without risk of damage to the wheel pants to attach the scale to the axle bolt.

Looks like I mis-read your post, sorry. Using a floor jack will not require to remove the cowl. I have jacked up the nose for the very same reason or checking the tire pressure using a floor jack safely and without having to touch the cowl.
 
You can put a floor jack right under the nut on the front of the nose wheel. No need to jack the whole darn plane.
 
I’ve adjusted my nose wheel nut many times. I have concrete blocks on a cheap HF dolly as described above and just use a strap to pull the tail down. Super easy. Take off the front half of the nose fairing and tighten.

Doing it with the scale never got it right. Last time got all the run down grease cleaned off and then set it firm but not easy and it has been great since.
 
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