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Cockpit Fire Extinguisher

Frankster13

Active Member
I am looking into what type of fire extinguisher I should have on board. I am looking into a small Halon Fire Extinguisher. Is there any thoughts, ideas or consensus on the best option?
 
I am using the H3R FIRE EXTINGUISHER MODEL A344T which is the same as the model above but in Red which I like better, it is cheaper and with being red easier to identify and won't get nearly as hot in a RV cockpit.
 
Stay away from the A400!!

STAY AWAY FROM THE A400!! :mad: Spruce still sells the H3R A400 model which is the smallest Halon extinguisher you can get. There is no gauge on it and no provision to service it. They claim a 9 year shelf life and once a year you check the extinguisher by weight. Well this year I found mine to be empty during my 4th CI, well short of the 9 year mark. I contacted H3R and they told me it was a known issue and that they had stopped selling these units several years ago. They also mentioned that there had been two known explosions of these units, both in helicopters in Canada. Even so, many of these are still available through multiple vendors to include Spruce. Despite my unit being past their warranty period they were nice enough to give me a discount on a new A344 unit. Much sturdier, you can have this unit serviced and refilled, gauge makes it easy to check and the bracket fits the same screw holes as the A400. The unit is slightly larger but still fits the same spot in my -8. The only down side in my case is that the top now covers a power port I?ve got. Got plenty of room to relocate it, just have not yet. The A344 unit comes painted in red or they have a chromed out bottle too for a bit more $$.

Good discussion at this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=172985&highlight=Extinguisher

Here too:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=31963&highlight=Fire+extinguisher
 
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A344's

Just bought two A344's for the new 7. Now I've got to figure out where to mount them!!! Small, compact units that look good.
 
FWF extinguisher...

... not to hijack this thread, but in addition to the cockpit extinguishers discussed here, any recommendations for extinguishers plumbed into the FWF?
 
STAY AWAY FROM THE A400!! :mad: Spruce still sells the H3R A400 model which is the smallest Halon extinguisher you can get. There is no gauge on it and no provision to service it. They claim a 9 year shelf life and once a year you check the extinguisher by weight. Well this year I found mine to be empty during my 4th CI, well short of the 9 year mark. I contacted H3R and they told me it was a known issue and that they had stopped selling these units several years ago. They also mentioned that there had been two known explosions of these units, both in helicopters in Canada. Even so, many of these are still available through multiple vendors to include Spruce. Despite my unit being past their warranty period they were nice enough to give me a discount on a new A344 unit. Much sturdier, you can have this unit serviced and refilled, gauge makes it easy to check and the bracket fits the same screw holes as the A400. The unit is slightly larger but still fits the same spot in my -8. The only down side in my case is that the top now covers a power port I’ve got. Got plenty of room to relocate it, just have not yet. The A344 unit comes painted in red or they have a chromed out bottle too for a bit more $$.

Good discussion at this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=172985&highlight=Extinguisher

Here too:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=31963&highlight=Fire+extinguisher

Agreed, stay away from the A400. In my case, I found the plastic cap/actuator would pop off while the unit was nested in the cradle. Just what you want in an emergency. A can of Halon with no actuator on top. Get a full metal jacket ;)
 
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... any recommendations for extinguishers plumbed into the FWF?
I installed a 3/8" soft aluminum "spray bar" about 6" in front of the firewall at the top. It's above the gascolator, boost pump, mechanical fuel pump, and oil cooler. I plumbed it back to a fitting on the far right of the instrument panel that will accept my halon fire extinguisher. I also installed a temp probe (meat thermometer) in there so I would know I had a fire. I hope I never have to use it.
 
maintenance

I have an H3R A344 that has been in the cockpit for 10 years. Gauge still shows full charge.

Do I really need to get it "maintained"? What would change that would benefit from maintenance when the gauge still shows full charge?

Can maintenance of H3R halon fire extinguishers be performed by local fire extinguisher servicing companies?
 
I have an H3R A344 that has been in the cockpit for 10 years. Gauge still shows full charge.

Do I really need to get it "maintained"? What would change that would benefit from maintenance when the gauge still shows full charge?

Can maintenance of H3R halon fire extinguishers be performed by local fire extinguisher servicing companies?

According to the local fire extinguisher servicing company guy that I spoke to at length...

In a word, no. He says as long as the gauge shows in the green (that is, no the thing isn't leaking), you're good to go.
 
I have an H3R A344 that has been in the cockpit for 10 years. Gauge still shows full charge.

Do I really need to get it "maintained"? What would change that would benefit from maintenance when the gauge still shows full charge?

Can maintenance of H3R halon fire extinguishers be performed by local fire extinguisher servicing companies?

In the US practically all pressurized cylinders (Halon, oxygen) are subject to DOT rules, and are often required to be inspected (time frame depends on material, pressure, etc) periodically via a hydrostatic pressure test. Our local airport actually looks for out of date extinguishers in hangars (but not in the airplane) during hangar inspections, and asks you to comply with the rules if out of date. YMMV.
 
In the US practically all pressurized cylinders (Halon, oxygen) are subject to DOT rules, and are often required to be inspected (time frame depends on material, pressure, etc) periodically via a hydrostatic pressure test. Our local airport actually looks for out of date extinguishers in hangars (but not in the airplane) during hangar inspections, and asks you to comply with the rules if out of date. YMMV.

https://www.h3raviation.com/downloads/Inspection-and-Maintenance-Requirements-Gauged-Exting.pdf

Looks like 12 years between hydrostatic tests.
 
I think I first learned of the Element fire extinguisher on a previous thread. I'm considering this instead of a conventional extinguisher.

https://elementfire.com/

Basically looks like a road flare. Less weight and no need to service.
 
I have an H3R A344 that has been in the cockpit for 10 years. Gauge still shows full charge.

Do I really need to get it "maintained"? What would change that would benefit from maintenance when the gauge still shows full charge?

Can maintenance of H3R halon fire extinguishers be performed by local fire extinguisher servicing companies?

You might want to weigh it Steve. It is a liquid in there, the pressure is vapor pressure at unit temperature. I think the gage shows full until the liquid is depleted. My unit loses weight each year. And - - I called my local fire extinguisher company was assured they can replace the o- rings, pressure test and refill for $20. I have not exercised the service though.

Here is an NFPA page on the Halons http://www.nfpa.it/d_faq_avi.htm

Edit II. Self Correction - I called H3R and spoke to a technical person. He said it is "possible" that it could lose a significant portion of the Halon 1211 and still read green on the gage. He also said the materials with the unit specify how much weight loss is acceptable. Pressure is augmented by nitrogen in this unit as the Halon 1211 vapor pressure (at all temps) is not sufficient to propel the liquid for a full discharge. He also confirmed that many local companies can service and refill. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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To the OPs original question about what type should I get, Yes, you should get Halon. Specifically Halon 1211, which is a liquid streaming agent that is particularly suitable for our airplanes. Halon is no longer made because it's supposedly bad for the Ozone layer. (don't know one way or the other as it's difficult to distinguish actual science from political "science" these days.)

In addition to being a superior fire fighting agent, it won't kill you if you discharge inside the cabin while you're in it, PLUS, it leaves no mess.

The product Element unit posted by someone else here is an unknown animal to me. Might be good, don't know.
 
But...

Halon may not poison you, however, it WILL suffocate you just like the fire.

That is specifically WHY we have PBE's located at every point a Halon extinguisher is present at work. If you discharge a Halon extinguisher in the cabin of an RV, be aware...
 
Element

I just ordered an Element extinguisher. It seems like a better alternative to Halon, although I think I'll keep both in the airplane.
 
You might want to weigh it Steve. It is a liquid in there, the pressure is vapor pressure at unit temperature. I think the gage shows full until the liquid is depleted. My unit loses weight each year. And - - I called my local fire extinguisher company was assured they can replace the o- rings, pressure test and refill for $20. I have not exercised the service though.

Here is an NFPA page on the Halons http://www.nfpa.it/d_faq_avi.htm

Edit II. Self Correction - I called H3R and spoke to a technical person. He said it is "possible" that it could lose a significant portion of the Halon 1211 and still read green on the gage. He also said the materials with the unit specify how much weight loss is acceptable. Pressure is augmented by nitrogen in this unit as the Halon 1211 vapor pressure (at all temps) is not sufficient to propel the liquid for a full discharge. He also confirmed that many local companies can service and refill. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks Bill, very helpful. I will weigh mine next month at condition inspection.
 
First Alert Tundra

Have two First Alert Tundra Fire Extinguishing Aerosol Spray style.

easy to mount, used a bicycle lite-weight water bottle cage. One mounted between back seat cushions of seats. Haven't bumped it yet with my shoulder, the same when carrying passengers. But is totally reachable.

Second one is mounted between my seat and the fuselage side; down low where it is out of the way, but easy to get.

Bought one at WalM and the other at Home Depot for $15 each.

Last longer, non-toxic, doesn't corrode electrics. 3 year shelf life, actual expires on date is on the top where it necks down to the plastic nozzle.

Here is a link to a PDF of the SDS Sheet: http://www.brkelectronics.com/BRK images/FIRST ALERT TUNDRA SDS GHS 160516.pdf

Did a test with a third one. Tested on small gasoline fire burning on concrete: was out quick. Slight wind didn't stop it from doing its job. Had a small wood fire going in my fire ring in the front yard, put it out quick as well and still had more to go. Used about 20-seconds worth, forgot to use a stop watch so just guessing.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
 
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Trying to shoot a fire extinguisher in the cockpit while flying may be pointless or might extinguish you. May be an electrical fire behind the panel might be fought in flight with an open slider canopy (if you can open it in flight).

For in-flight fire (worst nightmare), engine failure where rod, rods, crank shaft, head breaks, opens up crankcase, blows oil and fuel all over, best bet surviving a major in-flight fire/failure in my opinion, jettison canopy and bail with a personal sport parachute.

I remember when the fiberglass planes were growing in number some fitted FWF fire suppression systems. If that is your desire the fiberglass groups know what systems are available. I checked Spruce and did not see an off the shelf system. I recall they offered one years ago. Guessing it was not that popular due to weight and cost. DIY as described above may be the way to go.

The hot rod high compression engines, which are subject to more stress and potential for catastrophic failure. That is why I stick with a O-360 180 HP Lyc.... basic and reliable.
 
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Halon 1.25lb sale

I found this New 1.25lb halon extinguisher on ebay. # 153640512743 Seller has several. $144 with free shipping.
 
Vapor Cloud in cabin

"20-30 minutes for vapor cloud to degrade..."

Likely going to loose all spatial orientation and ground reference if you set off the Element extinguisher inside an aircraft. Definitely worth having for use on the ground but in flight use would be a very dicey proposition. Still looks like a great alternative to an oxygen depleting/ relatively heavy extinguisher.
 
I called H3R and spoke to a technical person. He said it is "possible" that it could lose a significant portion of the Halon 1211 and still read green on the gage. He also said the materials with the unit specify how much weight loss is acceptable. Pressure is augmented by nitrogen in this unit as the Halon 1211 vapor pressure (at all temps) is not sufficient to propel the liquid for a full discharge. He also confirmed that many local companies can service and refill. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for sharing that. Sure enough, the label on the side of my H3R (Amerex) C352TS (Halon 1211, with gauge) says weight should be checked, and it should weigh 4lbs 14oz, +/- 4 oz.
open
 
Element Fire Extinguisher

My understanding is that these cannot be turned off once started so the E50 would keep discharging for 50 seconds? Not desirable in a small cockpit!

Fin 9A.
 
My understanding is that these cannot be turned off once started so the E50 would keep discharging for 50 seconds? Not desirable in a small cockpit!

Fin 9A.

They have a smaller one, it's still 25 seconds, which in the moment would still feel like a long time.
 
The timing of this thread is perfect as it is past time for me to replace my halon extinguisher.

I have been through enough computer room fire suppression demo's that I am not afraid of halon; however, I am afraid of a powder extinguisher in the cockpit.

There are two that I am currently looking at.

The H3R halon extinguisher from Aircraft Spruce and the HalGuard-Clean Agent Extinguisher.

Do any of you know anything about the HalGuard extinguishers? Are they safe to use in the confines of our cockpits? Is it safe to breath?

I have reached out HalGuard and will post their reply. I have also reached out to a contact at our local FSDO to see what the FAA recommends.
 
HR3

Way back I went down the same path and got HR3 recommendation from a NASA aero research guy. It was good enough for me. I will be interested to see if you get something different.
 
I heard back from H3R today and there reply is below.

The list price at Aircraft Spruce for these extinguishers $193.75, so while not cheap, may be worth the price.

Hello Bill,

HalGuard contains Halotron 1, which is similar to Halon 1211 in terms of its toxicity. Both Halotron and Halon are approved for use in aircraft.

While we always recommend contacting your local authority having jurisdiction, we would suggest our Halon 1211 model A344T for use on aircraft. It is identical in size to the HalGuard HG100R, but it has twice the UL rating. It is used by several manufacturers of small aircraft. You can purchase it here: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/a344t.php?clickkey=41198

For your reference, I have attached the SDS for both extinguishers. You may also find this link informative. https://h3raviation.com/downloads/AC120-80 In-flight fires.pdf
Teresa Tatarek-Camp
H3R

Teresa did include a .PDF of an FAA document with also recommends this product.
 
I install these extinguishers:

https://www.h3rperformance.com/p4847-mx100r

About $80 on Amazon.

No they are not Halotron or Halon but use sodium bicarbonate which is baking soda. Baking soda is non-corrosive.

While much less expensive, I would STRONGLY recommend against any powder type extinguisher for aircraft use.

If you are curious why, sit inside of a cardboard box and set it off. You will be both blinded and choked by the powder.
 
While much less expensive, I would STRONGLY recommend against any powder type extinguisher for aircraft use.

If you are curious why, sit inside of a cardboard box and set it off. You will be both blinded and choked by the powder.

And if you ?try? to save a few bucks buying an Hr3 Haltron from an ?Auto Supplier?... be careful, they will send you the power type.

I ordered one for about $100 and they sent me a power model - exactly the same, but power and not Haltron.

They listed it wrong on their website. But, they were a standup Company and sent me a Haltron at a discount and of course corrected the price which is what Spruce sells them for.
 
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