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  #71  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:37 PM
agent4573 agent4573 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Mountain view
Posts: 188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Parallel for a couple feet is bad, crossing at 90 deg, 1/2 inch away is probably no issue.
Had a buddies subaru 2.5 turbo motor a few years ago that kept braking up under boost above 4500 rpm. This wasn't in a plane, but an off-road car. After hours of diagnosis and not finding an issue, we took it to a Dyno thinking it was a tuning issue. Took the dyno guy 30 seconds to tell us to move the cam position sensor wire. We had it crossing a plug wire at a 90 degree angle, about an inch or so away. Relocated the wire and it ran great. Electrical coupling sucks. I think the only absolute answer is "as far away as needed to not cause issues".
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  #72  
Old 09-19-2020, 08:34 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent4573 View Post
I think the only absolute answer is "as far away as needed to not cause issues".
I agree. Further away is better. It's difficult to say how things will be affected.

In the early days starting with the EM-3, we used to test for EMI/RFI issues by placing the the ECU upside down, with the lid off (PCB exposed) on top of the ignition wires to see if it screwed up. With later hard and digital filtering on the EM-4, we could get smooth running until the plug wires were less than 1/2" from the CPU chip (using proper suppression wires).

Another big issue is using non-resistor spark plugs with ECUs. In our testing, these create up to 5 times the interference compared to resistor plugs and I've seen and heard of a number of OEM ECUs equally affected. You should never use non-resistor plugs with digital engine controls.

We've measured over 100 volts induced on wires run close and parallel to plug wires (unloaded). When the logic level differential is only a couple of volts, you can see where this can be a big deal. Garbage in= garbage out. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tex...oltage-levels/

Noise is one of the biggest challenges of developing electronics for aircraft as we have the engine ignition system and multiple electronic systems in close proximity to the ECU and sensor wiring including VHF transmitters and transponders.

Stack the deck in your favor by using good wiring practices. Nobody needs problems like this on an aircraft.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.7 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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  #73  
Old 09-19-2020, 11:39 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,809
Default Rotax Parts

Some more awesome work from Trevor.

2nd batch of Rotax 912 EFI parts back from the anodizer now. On the right are some new vacuum fittings we decided to supply with the kits to make connections to the MAP sensor and fuel pressure regulator easier. These will be supplied with new hose and constant tension clamps as well. Attach to the factory vacuum balance cross over fittings on the manifolds.

Full speed ahead.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.7 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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  #74  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:04 PM
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brian brian is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cornish, NH
Posts: 391
Default a review

I just posted an ad here and saw the SDS post in the "recent posts". Let me just say that, during my struggles trying to get an Eggenfellner STi engine conversion working, Ross and SDS were a real bright spot in the whole mess. Ross was very easy to work with, and very knowledgeable and helpful. After initially getting the Eggenfellner wiring kluge working, I ended up tearing it all out and replacing it with the SDS system. The SDS was easy to install, and provided perfect, reliable control over everything the engine was doing. Detailed tuning was very easy and effective with the SDS system.

I highly recommend Ross and his SDS system.
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Brian Meyette, Cornish, NH
1995 RV-6A - N16RK (Ralph Koger) SOLD
RV-7A - incomplete, supercharged Subaru STi - N432MM - SOLD
2001 Quad City Challenger II LW - N28RT SOLD

www.meyette.us/RV-7Ahome.htm

Last edited by brian : 09-19-2020 at 12:11 PM.
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  #75  
Old 09-19-2020, 01:10 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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Thanks for the kudos Brian. We tried to help out all the Egg customers who were left stranded. Quite a number are still flying with their Sube packages.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.7 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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  #76  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:16 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,215
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I've got 6 months and about a hundred hours now on my SDS conversion for my IO360, and I have to agree - it was a pleasure to install and work with. Some RTFM is required, but it all makes sense once you do that. There are obviously a lot of hours involved in a retrofit due to raping out all the original engine ignition and fuel systems but the new installation is pretty straightforward and I LOVE the new programmer format. Initial programming was easy, and flying with it and tweaking the map occasionally is just plain fun. I would highly recommend installing the optional AFR/O2 sensor with this system.

I'm regularly seeing 25 nautical miles per gallon now at 165 knots in cruise at mid-teen altitudes.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #77  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:24 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,809
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Thanks Greg. You had a couple atypical issues early on so I'm glad you are happy with the system and enjoying it now. Always nice to work with mechanical savvy guys like you.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.7 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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  #78  
Old 10-04-2020, 08:40 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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Default SDS EM-5 Startup Problem

Greg, I moved this discussion over here instead of the CPI-2 thread to avoid confusion between the two systems. I hope that's ok.

To recap, Greg is sometimes getting fuel ignition on power up before cranking the engine, which is creating a bang and or prop movement.

__________________________________________________ ______

"If we were a little closer, I'd fly to you and show you myself.

If I power up the fuel pump, then the ECU with fuel pressure available, and then power up the coils, I'll get the pop about one try in five. As mentioned earlier sometimes it's clearly a "wheeeooshhh" as a slow mixture burns through the pipes and sometimes a .44 magnum going off, depending on the mix and distribution, with significant prop movement usually on the louder ones.

I figured out the cause pretty quick, and just let the mags do their thing before I introduce fuel in the system. My start procedure works as long as I shutdown by killing injection first, so it's no big deal now, but food for thought and easily reproducible if you'd like to see it. In my plane the injector power comes on with the same switch as ECU power, two switches for the mags, and separate switches for the fuel pumps."
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Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

__________________________________________________ _____________

Thanks for this feedback. With EFI, when you shut off the ECU or injector power, there should be no fuel in the cylinders unless the injectors leak. On a good EFI setup, fuel pressure should be present in the block and lines hours, weeks or months after the last pump run. The injectors snap closed as does the pump check valve and the fuel pressure regulator return valve, trapping the fuel pressure in the system.

Interested if your fuel pressure holds with pump off?

As you correctly said before, the ECU does a short injector pulse if the engine temp is below a certain threshold to aid starting. If fuel pressure is present at lower temps, the injectors will open for a few milliseconds at ECU power on, putting some fuel into the cylinders.

Now, trying to figure out why you are getting a spark happening here and that's the puzzle. It shouldn't be happening and it never has for me with something like 20,000 hours behind SDS on many different engines.
In light of this and the lack of other customers reporting this we need to figure out what's different on your installation.

The ECU shouldn't fire any coils until it sees synch and trigger magnet passage. I wonder if something has crept into software to cause this? You are running a newer version than I am. I'll look up your software version and get Barry to run some bench tests when he gets back, scoping the coil outputs on power up to see if we get spark. We typically run coils and injectors on the bench together as we test each ECU so we should hear a stray spark on ECU power up if that was happening.

I'd like understand why this is happening to get to the bottom if this for you. Thanks for letting us know. This isn't right.

If any other EM-5 owners have experienced this issue, please contact us and state your software version which appears in the programmer display on initial power up. It will be V___ with a burn number beside it. Need to figure out if this issue is unique to Greg or something systemic with certain versions of software.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.7 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 10-04-2020 at 08:43 AM.
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  #79  
Old 10-04-2020, 10:15 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,215
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Correct - I have isolated it to the spark occurring as I power up the mag coils. It may not be happening on every power up either - I only know that I get an ignition about 20% of the time when there is fuel already present in the cylinder and I power up the mag coils. It may be sparking every time and I usually don't get ignition, or it may be sparking once in a while, or even sparking on just one or two cylinders - I have no data for that.

Now I shutdown by killing the ECU first - stopping the injectors and leaving the engine with no fuel. Startup has the mags turned on first before any fuel can be introduced, so if there is spark happening I don't care - then fuel and ECU and then crank. And to answer your fuel pressure question, yes the pressure does stay in the system quite nicely when I shut down. I've played with it, and if I shut down the fuel pumps a half second prior to killing the ECU, I can catch the fuel pressure in the mid-teens and watch the system FWF heatsoak and the pressure will rise to the Borla regulator opening and bleed it to the fuel tank, and then as things cool off it falls again. Remember I'm running 91E10 with high vapor pressure - 100LL might not be able to boil to that pressure, I haven't tried it.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

Last edited by airguy : 10-04-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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  #80  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:11 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,809
Default Update

We are continuing to work on the EM-6 software, of which a lot of this code as it's developed and tested, will find it's way into the latest EM-5 system before EM-6 release which is still far off in 2021 (we hope!).

It makes more sense to do the software first as the hardware is usually a quicker task to design and test. We are also designing some new hardware as time permits. Some of this has been a result of soon-to-be obsoleted components which is always something we face in this industry and other improvements we want to introduce.

Sales have been tremendous this year so far, which continues to limit the time we can spend on EM-6 development unfortunately, even with extra people building stuff here.

Our 3 machine shop contractors are churning out tons of CNC's parts with over 1200 delivered so far in October alone.

Thank you to all those VAF members who support SDS!
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.7 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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