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  #111  
Old 08-25-2018, 01:18 PM
todehnal todehnal is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky Lakes area in KY
Posts: 947
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My big issue is the same as Jim Striker had. That big hole in the middle of the front plate to accommodate a poor excuse for setting blade angle is likely a major contributor to the cracking. Instead of forcing us to take a modified D hub called a D1, why not sell us the new style F hub. I think that someone at Sensenich thought that was a good idea. Here is a direct quote from the service bulletin.

NOTE: Since the basic blade shank geometry has not changed, it is possible to use older blades with newer hubs if a protractor is used to set blade angles.

That has to be the best fix out there. Only 3 little holes in the F hub, compared to that useless enormous hole that the D1 has. We all use a much more accurate blade angle measuring device and there is no need to keep that useless pitch cylinder. The problem is that now they are trying to force us to pay $545, instead of $195, which will include replacement of a good rear hub half, and have our blades modified to accommodate another useless blade angle setting mechanism. Did I mention aircraft down time while we ship our entire prop back and forth and for them to rework our original blades?? We're still going to use the protractor method to come up with less than a ,1 degree of variance between blades. This could be so simple. Just sell us F hub front halves for $195. We'll take care of the blade angle settings. Done, and done...........Tom
__________________
2013- RV12, Kit #119. N123M First flight Nov21. It's a keeper!
1998- RV-9 tail kit, built and sold
1989- RV-6 tail kit, built and sold

Last edited by todehnal : 08-25-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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  #112  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:17 PM
rjtjrt rjtjrt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todehnal View Post
My big issue is the same as Jim Striker had. That big hole in the middle of the front plate to accommodate a poor excuse for setting blade angle is likely a major contributor to the cracking. Instead of forcing us to take a modified D hub called a D1, why not sell us the new style F hub. I think that someone at Sensenich thought that was a good idea. Here is a direct quote from the service bulletin.

NOTE: Since the basic blade shank geometry has not changed, it is possible to use older blades with newer hubs if a protractor is used to set blade angles.

That has to be the best fix out there. Only 3 little holes in the F hub, compared to that useless enormous hole that the D1 has. We all use a much more accurate blade angle measuring device and there is no need to keep that useless pitch cylinder. The problem is that now they are trying to force us to pay $545, instead of $195, which will include replacement of a good rear hub half, and have our blades modified to accommodate another useless blade angle setting mechanism. Did I mention aircraft down time while we ship our entire prop back and forth and for them to rework our original blades?? We're still going to use the protractor method to come up with less than a ,1 degree of variance between blades. This could be so simple. Just sell us F hub front halves for $195. We'll take care of the blade angle settings. Done, and done...........Tom
I agree.
Hope others post their opinions here, so Sensenich can see the logic for RV-12 community.
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  #113  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:56 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 2,133
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Part of the conversation I had with Sensenich was the cost of the new hub. I was told they were supplying the hub at below cost. You can buy entire new prop with blades, hub, and hardware for $1760. Front hub with six bolts and washers for $195? I don?t know. The ?D? hub is no longer sold for new applications, so this is really old stock or new production of an old design. At one point in the conversation I mentioned that the severity of the problem might have warranted replacement parts at no cost to the end user. Better to get good parts into the field and reduce exposure to product liability.
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Jim Stricker
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 633

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #114  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:11 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,860
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The D hub may be inferior to the new version, but we have only seen a handful of cracked prop hubs, and mine has about 780 Hours with no cracks. I won?t lose any sleep with a D-1 version.
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  #115  
Old 08-26-2018, 06:51 AM
todehnal todehnal is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky Lakes area in KY
Posts: 947
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I just can't imagine that the cost of manufacture of the F hub is any more costly than the cost of manufacture of the D1 hub. They will both fit the same rear hub and the blades, and apparently they are not just trying to get rid of old stock, otherwise current orders for the D1 hub would be filled. The only loss with an F hub and non retrofitted blades is the loss of the pitch cylinder, which I never use anyway.

I started out with an early hub. There was a recall on them, and I had to send in my early hub, which was gold in color. Then I received a C hub in exchange that is black. My understanding was that the older hubs did not have sufficient blade clamping action. There was no charge for that change. it just meant down time for the airplane. Since then the have continued to redesign the hub and now have an F hub that eliminates that huge hole that accommodated the pitch cylinder, and seems far superior. So now cracks are developing in the C, and D hubs, so, instead of offering us the choice to go with the new F hub, they offer us a discounted price on a beefed up D hub and call it a D1. Sorry, but I would like to be done with this issue, and I strongly believe that by merely replacing my old C hub front half with the new F hub front half, this problem will go away. I'm not asking for it to be FREE, I am happy to pay the $195. I'm just against sending in my prop, having airplane down time, paying additional shipping both ways for the entire prop, and paying $545 to get it done. I just want Sensenich to send me an F hub and I will be totally satisfied with total confidence in the prop. By the way, I wouldn't be the first to receive an F hub front half as a replacement directly from Sensenich..............Tom
__________________
2013- RV12, Kit #119. N123M First flight Nov21. It's a keeper!
1998- RV-9 tail kit, built and sold
1989- RV-6 tail kit, built and sold

Last edited by todehnal : 08-26-2018 at 06:56 AM.
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  #116  
Old 08-27-2018, 02:22 PM
AirHound AirHound is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todehnal View Post
I just can't imagine that the cost of manufacture of the F hub is any more costly than the cost of manufacture of the D1 hub. They will both fit the same rear hub and the blades, and apparently they are not just trying to get rid of old stock, otherwise current orders for the D1 hub would be filled. The only loss with an F hub and non retrofitted blades is the loss of the pitch cylinder, which I never use anyway.

I started out with an early hub. There was a recall on them, and I had to send in my early hub, which was gold in color. Then I received a C hub in exchange that is black. My understanding was that the older hubs did not have sufficient blade clamping action. There was no charge for that change. it just meant down time for the airplane. Since then the have continued to redesign the hub and now have an F hub that eliminates that huge hole that accommodated the pitch cylinder, and seems far superior. So now cracks are developing in the C, and D hubs, so, instead of offering us the choice to go with the new F hub, they offer us a discounted price on a beefed up D hub and call it a D1. Sorry, but I would like to be done with this issue, and I strongly believe that by merely replacing my old C hub front half with the new F hub front half, this problem will go away. I'm not asking for it to be FREE, I am happy to pay the $195. I'm just against sending in my prop, having airplane down time, paying additional shipping both ways for the entire prop, and paying $545 to get it done. I just want Sensenich to send me an F hub and I will be totally satisfied with total confidence in the prop. By the way, I wouldn't be the first to receive an F hub front half as a replacement directly from Sensenich..............Tom
Don't forget that 150$ Dynamic Prop Balance some just did....agree stop with the D and go with the F with same back half if not a safety issue...
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  #117  
Old 08-27-2018, 08:58 PM
KRAUSEGB KRAUSEGB is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CAMARILLO, CALIFORNIA
Posts: 119
Default I agree

I agree with Doug. Why send us a retrofit, modified "C" hub instead of the new design "F"?

Gary
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  #118  
Old 08-28-2018, 01:34 PM
steveb steveb is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: FL
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
This can't be helping the operation!

FAA Revokes Certificate Of Sensenich Repair Station
https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archiv...t=email#231418

The recent revocation of FAA repair station license does not apply to us in any way.

Sensenich Propeller Manufacturing (metal props) of Lititz, PA and Sensenich Wood Propeller (wood and composite props) of Plant City, FL have not been affiliated with Sensenich Propeller Service since 1995 when they had a management buyout.
Sensenich Propeller Service does not manufacture propellers, they perform maintenance and repair services only.

Our repair stations in Lititz and Plant City are fully compliant with FAA regulations and meet all government standards.

For more information, please refer to our press release:
http://www.sensenich.com/wp-content/...45Rev1-002.pdf
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  #119  
Old 08-28-2018, 04:16 PM
steveb steveb is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: FL
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAUSEGB View Post
I agree with Doug. Why send us a retrofit, modified "C" hub instead of the new design "F"?

Gary
Sensenich beefed up the original "big hole" hub cover style in the trouble area so that they would still be compatible with revision D and older hubs, thus allowing use of the original pitch cylinder for setting blade angle.
Of course, you can always use a protractor if you want and not use the pitch cylinder.

Our hub vendor has a 3-4 month lead time, so Sensenich geared up production of revision "D1" replacements in-house, with deliveries planned to begin in early September.

While revision "E" and later hub covers will fit on older hubs, the blade pitch pins won't line up, so you have to use a protractor for setting blade angles.

We can supply revision "F" hub covers upon customer request, but note that these will not be available until later in the Fall after delivery of all current orders for revision "D1" covers.
Sensenich plans to begin in-house production of revision "F" hubs in the mid to late 4th quarter of 2018.

steve from Sensenich
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  #120  
Old 08-28-2018, 08:45 PM
rjtjrt rjtjrt is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveb View Post
Sensenich beefed up the original "big hole" hub cover style in the trouble area so that they would still be compatible with revision D and older hubs, thus allowing use of the original pitch cylinder for setting blade angle.
Of course, you can always use a protractor if you want and not use the pitch cylinder.

Our hub vendor has a 3-4 month lead time, so Sensenich geared up production of revision "D1" replacements in-house, with deliveries planned to begin in early September.

While revision "E" and later hub covers will fit on older hubs, the blade pitch pins won't line up, so you have to use a protractor for setting blade angles.

We can supply revision "F" hub covers upon customer request, but note that these will not be available until later in the Fall after delivery of all current orders for revision "D1" covers.
Sensenich plans to begin in-house production of revision "F" hubs in the mid to late 4th quarter of 2018.

steve from Sensenich
Re F Hub covers availability, Thanks Steve.
Could you come back to us in future, when the F hub covers become available?
John
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