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Down to RV7A or 14A?

acpilot

Well Known Member
Patron
Unfortunately my plans to head to Van's and go for a test flight in each of these aircraft has been curtailed due to Covid and the US/CAN border closed. I am still going back and forth on which airplane will be right for me. I have it down to the 7A or 14A.

I would obviously choose the 14A if money was not an object but when I break it down it is probably 15-18K more and that is before the prop and any avionics etc. In the end I'm guessing at an extra 30K to build the 14A. If I did the 7A I would probably just go with IO 360 and a F/P prop due to less weight, cost and maintenance. I'm just not sure what the extra initial and operating costs of the C/S would be and if it's worth it. If anyone who has flown in both and has any input it would be greatly appreciated. Of course I really like the size of the 14A and the fact the kit is match drilled but is it worth the extra cost.

I realize that when you are building your "dream" you shouldn't worry about cost, however, since I will be using the CDN peso it does become a factor.

Thanks
 
Well, I can’t speak of CDN peso (i.e. financial aspect of it) but I have built and flown both models and love both of them immensely, though prefer the 14 much more.

Both are match drilled but the 14 by far has a better instructions and easier to build. It cost more but you will need to keep in mind that the kits are more complete than the 7A. Both of my planes had CS prop and they did not cost me a dim for maintenance but I had the first one only for about 8 years and 750 hours and only two flying years on the 14.

My 14 is faster, roomier, can get to higher altitude but it is a bit thirstier by about a 1G/hour on the average. I think the 14 has a better resale value as there fewer of them out there.

You will not go wrong with either plane and hope this helps.
 
My first RV (8A) started life with a FP prop. I replaced it with the nice Hartzell BA CS prop at about 300 hours. This one change transformed the plane into a real, across the envelope performer.

I tell people the one big mistake I made on that plane was following advice of others that I really just wanted a FP prop. The next two RVs also sport the Hartzell prop.

Carl
 
I think all of the Vans non LSA demo aircraft were fitted with CS props from new. This should tell you something. Do some more research on fuel economy with a CS prop vs FP. When I did, I found the CS prop would pay for itself in fuel saved over a few years (of course it depends how much you fly). The shorter TO roll, better climb rate, more relaxed cruising and better deceleration in the pattern are bonuses.
 
Another wrench into the mix. If you want a slider canopy you are stuck with the -7A. I wish they would have a slider option for the -14.
 
Kit support

Don't sweat the ease of one over the other. Yes, you ca build the 14 faster becuase it's more finished from the factory. However, there are a lot of 7(A)s around and lots of builder support. Both have plenty of builder support to finish. Just a question of pesos! Difference will buy a lot of gas!
 
Another wrench into the mix. If you want a slider canopy you are stuck with the -7A. I wish they would have a slider option for the -14.

If I recall correctly, the cockpit sides on the -14 are not parallel. Rather, the fuselage is a little wider at the trailing edge of the wing for drag reduction by keeping a more constant cross section. With the sides not parallel, a slider would be a trick.

The Thorp T-18 has this as well.
 
I realize that when you are building your "dream" you shouldn't worry about cost, however, since I will be using the CDN peso it does become a factor.

I'd caution you about abandoning your budget just because you're building a dream. It's tempting, I know, but that's a good way to get in over your head. How would your dream turn out if, a few years from now, you finally admit that you bit off too much and you can't afford to finish your dream airplane?
 
Another (major) factor: What size person are you? If average or smaller, either will work well. If on the large size, IMHO you would be happier with the -14A.
Also, the -14 series is easier to get in and out of.
 
I chose the 7a over the 14a.

We have been very happy with the cabin width of our Grumman Traveler (AA5), which is nearly identical to a 7a.

I prefer an IO-360 to an IO-390.

I've never been in a 14, but it's noted to be heavier/less nimble than the 7, and my wife LOVES aerobatics.

Our mission for the 7a will be VFR local flights primarily. If we end up needing wanting an IFR plane, we'll be looking at buying a Bonanza, building an RV-10, or potentially one of the canard designs.

I intend to keep the weight light as possible, looking at a composite fixed pitch prop, parallel valve 360, minimalist panel. This will also keep the cost down. I'm definitely set on tricycle gear, and, having had a slider-canopy in the Grumman for a while, am looking forward to having a tip-up instead.

I vacillated around the final-sized holes, and even had several RV7 and 8 builders tell me (in person) "don't think, get a 14." I settled on a 7a slow-build, and am really enjoying the build process.
 
Just to throw a wrench into the decision...

Any RV is better than no RV, but with the RV-14 comes another thought tree.

The all in cost of the new RV-14, with the nice engine, is only ~$23,000 less than the all in cost of an RV-10. This leads to the obvious quandary. For that little difference the RV-10 is the clear value decision, assuming your mission does not include aerobatics.

The other consideration is the RV-10 will take twice as long, if not more time to build than the RV-14.

My point, anytime you start considering an RV-14 the RV-10 should not be overlooked.

I’m debating all this right now as I’m going to soon start my fourth, and final RV. I’ve built and flown an RV-10 and have many hours in an RV-14A. The RV-10 is hands down the best airplane I’ve ever flown, but to do another one requires, for me, a different cowl and wheel pants - all adding to what is already a lot of work. The RV-10 engine however can burn 94UL AVGAS or ethanol free 93 octane pump gas. The RV-14 really needs the big IO-390 engine, which locks you into 100LL fuel (or whatever will be the overpriced replacement 100UL novelty AVGAS).

The good news is we are deciding between very capably aircraft - there is no bad choice.

Define your objectives, decide and write the check!

Carl
 
One other consideration between the 7A and 14A is the landing gear. While there is nothing wrong with the landing gear of a 7A, the 14A is much more forgiving and better design, both for the main AND the nose gear.
 
Nose gear

One other consideration between the 7A and 14A is the landing gear. While there is nothing wrong with the landing gear of a 7A, the 14A is much more forgiving and better design, both for the main AND the nose gear.

Vans has a new nose gear/ engine mount for the 7A patterned from the 14A/10A. Pretty robust with shock pads. I am installing it on mine.
 
Thank you all for all the great input, it is all great food for thought. At this point I am leaning toward the RV-14A with the larger Thunderbolt 390. I think I will enjoy the shoulder room, extra baggage space and since I will make it IFR, a more stable platform. Anyhow, I will not order though before my wife I can go for a ride at Vans. Who knows when the better half comes along she may say "this is awesome but I want 4 seats!" :)

Please keep your ideas coming as they really bring to light things I hadn't thought about.
 
A cautionary tale about the wife.

Anyhow, I will not order though before my wife I can go for a ride at Vans. Who knows when the better half comes along she may say "this is awesome but I want 4 seats!" :)

At this point I need to tell you a cautionary tale that is applicable to you and probably to many married builders who are contemplating what aircraft to build.

I have a very good friend and when he retired he became fixated on the idea of buying a caravan and touring the country. He knew exactly what he wanted...he wanted a relatively cheap, small, light, no frills, off-road caravan that he could haul over un-made roads to obscure fishing spots.

But there was a problem. His wife was not in the least interested in fishing or going caravanning. Her idea of a holiday was to relax at a nice hotel, eat in restaurants, and have someone else do the cooking and cleaning. And fair enough. She did not fancy being his portable cook as he scoured the back country for lonely fishing locations.

My friend's answer to this dilemma was to try to improve his wife's enthusiasm for the plan by involving her in the purchase of the caravan. Uh oh, big mistake. When he took her to the caravan display centre he found that her priorities were not remotely the same as his. He wanted really simple....but she wanted a flash kitchen, an onboard toilet, a bathroom with shower, all the bells and whistles. In short she wanted an expensive mobile home. And because he had involved her he could not then reject her desires without alienating her completely.

My friend ended up with a huge caravan suitable primarily for only sealed roads so he never got to the backcountry spots he had envisaged. Furthermore he needed to upgrade to an expensive Toyota 4x4 Landcruiser to haul this big caravan around. And then when they got back from their very first trip in the caravan she told him that she had not really enjoyed the experience and would not be going again. But she was happy for him to go on his own if he wanted to.

So he sold the mobile home and Landcruiser (everything purchased brand new) at a tremendous loss and downsized to the simple off-roader he had wanted in the first place. And then he went away caravanning and fishing on his own to the remote locations he had always envisaged...and everyone was happy.

The list of amateur aircraft builders who try to shoehorn their reluctant wives (and children) into their own aviation dream is unending. Most of them just end up flying on their own.
 
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Thank you all for all the great input, it is all great food for thought. At this point I am leaning toward the RV-14A with the larger Thunderbolt 390. I think I will enjoy the shoulder room, extra baggage space and since I will make it IFR, a more stable platform. Anyhow, I will not order though before my wife I can go for a ride at Vans. Who knows when the better half comes along she may say "this is awesome but I want 4 seats!" :)

Please keep your ideas coming as they really bring to light things I hadn't thought about.

There will be a considerable cost difference between the different models you are considering. I agree with a previous comment about having a budget in mind to start. Cost can really get out of control north of the border where you can expect to add about 40% to the US cost, after adding packing, shipping, exchange and tax. I was fortunate when building my 7 a few years ago that I was able to buy most things almost at par. Not so any longer. Looking at the 3 injected Thunderbolt engines for the 7, 14, 10 the rounded Vans price (which I think is increasing today) is $34K - IO360, $39K - IO390 and $52K - IO540. All USD minimums just for the base engine. Significantly more for the 540, especially once all the additional Cdn costs are included.

My 2c on the fixed vs constant prop battle is that in low altitude cruise (6500' and below) there is negligible difference between the 2. Can't speak to above that since we rarely fly there. I fly regularly with other IO360 constant 7A's and my FP O-360 powered 7 (I like the KISS theory) gives the same speeds at the same power settings. However, if you fly out of high elevation, short or obstructed strips, get the constant. It gives much better TO performance for those conditions. It will also slow you down quicker, but that is just energy management IMHO. Mtc wise, more expensive when the 10 yr or manufacturers OH comes due but not much other than that, unless it starts leaking or the governor goes south.

As Carl said, define the mission. When you have that, estimate your budget, which will help you pick your plane. Then enjoy the build.

An important consideration is whether you are a builder or a flyer. There is a considerable time commitment along with the financial one. It requires much determination to complete a build and as can be seen by the number of projects being sold, it is not for everyone.
 
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